Azerbaijani and Armenian military Clashes

[FM07]

Excuse my ignorance, but with Turkey being as authoritarian/autocratic as they are, why exactly are they in NATO to this day? Perhaps getting on the wrong side of the current conflict could be the final straw?

 

[Good2Golf]

Excuse my ignorance, but with Turkey being as authoritarian/autocratic as they are, why exactly are they in NATO to this day? Perhaps getting on the wrong side of the current conflict could be the final straw?

Unchallenged access by NATO to the Black Sea.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Portugal was a 1949 founding member of NATO when it was a dictatorship under Salazar. Azores and all that. NATO's "democratic" basis has always been, er, flexible.
https://medium.com/history-of-yesterday/salazar-the-forgotten-dictator-b9f8de963a7b

Mark
Ottawa

 

[FM07]

Thanks for the insight guys, makes sense. Interesting read about Salazar, very much in the mold of Franco.

I read this one too: https://www.cp24.com/world/azerbaijan-armenia-no-closer-to-ending-clashes-after-4-days-1.5126014

Sounds like Macron of France would like to start talks with the parties involved and the USA. Will be watching this unfold.

 

[MilEME09]

https://www.funker530.com/azerbaijani-kamikaze-drones-armenian/

Some interesting use of drones/ loitering munitions to strike Armenian Targets. No video of the after effects sadly by enough charge and a tank with hatches open could kill the crew.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Some more here, warning some are graphic

Sending our military into a modern combat zone with the level of AD we possess is almost criminal. You need multiple layers to protect the Short range stuff, but you still need the short range as well.

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/azerbaijan-publishes-scenes-from-massive-attack-on-armenian-forces/

 

[FJAG]

The above article about loitering munitions led me to an interesting Azerbaijani military music video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKA9xJx-NKg&feature=youtu.be

:cheers:

 

[PuckChaser]

Near peer border clashes and peace talks? I guess I'll make an appointment for my blue helmet cover tomorrow, peacekeeping is back!!!

 

[MilEME09]

Near peer border clashes and peace talks? I guess I'll make an appointment for my blue helmet cover tomorrow, peacekeeping is back!!!

Considering neither side wants to talk, this would be aggressive peace making, and would turn very bloody if we got involved.

 

[OldSolduer]

Considering neither side wants to talk, this would be aggressive peace making, and would turn very bloody if we got involved.

Yeah been there and it not much fun.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The above article about loitering munitions led me to an interesting Azerbaijani military music video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKA9xJx-NKg&feature=youtu.be

:cheers:

Weaponized MTV

We would be sitting ducks getting between those two armies with zero air defense.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Canadian exports to Turkey may actually have fairly important role in the fight:

1)

Ottawa won’t say whether it let military sales to Turkey slip through arms embargo

The federal government is refusing to divulge whether it’s been allowing exports of target-acquisition systems to a Turkish drone maker to slip through a ban on military exports to the NATO ally that’s been in place for nearly one year.

Canada’s defence equipment sales to Turkey are under close scrutiny now because of allegations that Turkish-made drones equipped with made-in-Canada gear are being used by Azerbaijan to attack Armenia in a growing conflict over Nagorno-Karabakh, a disputed territory.

Earlier this week, the Trudeau government announced it’s looking into allegations that made-in-Canada imaging and targeting systems are being used by Azerbaijan in the clash with Armenia. There is concern that exports meant for Turkey only have been diverted to Azerbaijan, a staunch ally of Turkey.

But what it won’t talk about is whether it has granted an exemption that allows gear to slip through the arms embargo.

“Canada is monitoring developments in Turkey and the surrounding regions, and will take appropriate action should credible evidence be found regarding the misuse of any controlled Canadian good or technology, including to commit or facilitate serious violations of international human-rights or humanitarian law,” department of Global Affairs spokesman Michel Cimpaye said Wednesday.

He added, however, that Global Affairs “does not comment on individual permits or permit applications" to export military goods. In reports published this year on military exports, the department explained that it feels details of particular shipments would “infringe on commercial confidentiality.”

Last October, the federal government halted the approval process for new export permits to ship military goods to Turkey, citing Ankara’s “military incursion into Syria."

But then in April, it modified this ban and added a loophole. It said prospective exporters should assume requests to ship Group 2 military goods – a sprawling category that includes most goods that are considered weapons – would be rejected.

But, Ottawa added, exceptions would be made for matters relating to “NATO co-operation programs.” Turkey and Canada are both members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, a military alliance.

Questions are now being raised about gear by L3Harris Wescam, a company in Burlington, Ont., that makes imaging and targeting systems containing laser designators to paint targets for laser-guided bombs launched by drones or fighter aircraft. Wescam technology has been used in drones operated by the military of Turkey, including aircraft made by Turkish firm Baykar. In June and July, widespread media reports indicated Turkey was selling drones to Azerbaijan...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-canada-wont-say-whether-target-acquisition-gear-for-drones-slipping/

2)

Drones playing big role in Nagorno-Karabakh fight
Unmanned suicide drones and loitering munitions are being deployed to lethal effect in Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict

Drones are playing a big role in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan. Israeli, Turkish, Russian and locally produced drones and loitering munitions figure in the conflict and account for most losses especially by Armenia, which has lost armored vehicles, multiple rocket launchers and air defense platforms.

Azerbaijan says it also has taken out an Armenian S-300 surface to air missile system, using an Israeli Harop. Armenia denies the claim.

The Harop is a "suicide drone" manufactured by Israel Aerospace Industries (formerly Israel Aircraft Industries) and is classified as a loitering munition. Harop is an anti-radiation drone that can autonomously home in on radio emissions and is optimized to go after air defense systems.

Sometimes also called Harpy 2, Harop features a stealthy airframe design making its detection and interception by enemy air defenses difficult. It also has a low thermal signature, meaning that IR weapons can't effectively track Harop, and its sleek body makes visual location and identification difficult...
https://asiatimes.com/2020/10/drones-playing-big-role-in-nagorno-karabakh-fight/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[FJAG]

Weaponized MTV

We would be sitting ducks getting between those two armies with zero air defense.

I looked up both armies on Wikipedia. Armenia's gear is mostly Soviet era but their air defence, artillery and anti-armour weaponry would make life very tough for us. Azerbaijan, on the other hand, has significantly more modern equipment supplementing their Soviet gear which would probably take us out fairly quickly.

Interesting considering that each of their defence budgets are a mere fraction of ours. (I presume the Soviet gear is all leftovers from when they were part of the USSR.) Both make use of conscription and reserve service which keeps full-time force personnel costs low.

:cheers:

 

[MilEME09]

I looked up both armies on Wikipedia. Armenia's gear is mostly Soviet era but their air defence, artillery and anti-armour weaponry would make life very tough for us. Azerbaijan, on the other hand, has significantly more modern equipment supplementing their Soviet gear which would probably take us out fairly quickly.

Interesting considering that each of their defence budgets are a mere fraction of ours. (I presume the Soviet gear is all leftovers from when they were part of the USSR.) Both make use of conscription and reserve service which keeps full-time force personnel costs low.

:cheers:

all it would take is 1 battery of TOS-1's to cause a significant chunk of losses to our forces, those things scare me for sure.

 

[CBH99]

I looked up both armies on Wikipedia. Armenia's gear is mostly Soviet era but their air defence, artillery and anti-armour weaponry would make life very tough for us. Azerbaijan, on the other hand, has significantly more modern equipment supplementing their Soviet gear which would probably take us out fairly quickly.

Interesting considering that each of their defence budgets are a mere fraction of ours. (I presume the Soviet gear is all leftovers from when they were part of the USSR.) Both make use of conscription and reserve service which keeps full-time force personnel costs low.

:cheers:

Ya don't say?  8)  

And when it comes to Soviet and Russian equipment, I think sometimes we forget in the collective West that bullets and explosions hurt.  Killing the other side & taking away their ability to operate, or even literally exist, wins wars.


We value fancy, laser guided, composite this & that.  And for good reason.  But like MilEME said, a battery of TOS-1's will absolutely ruin your day.  (Or any other outdated system that can still rain hellfire on us)

 

[MilEME09]

Ya don't say?  8)  

And when it comes to Soviet and Russian equipment, I think sometimes we forget in the collective West that bullets and explosions hurt.  Killing the other side & taking away their ability to operate, or even literally exist, wins wars.


We value fancy, laser guided, composite this & that.  And for good reason.  But like MilEME said, a battery of TOS-1's will absolutely ruin your day.  (Or any other outdated system that can still rain hellfire on us)

Doesn't matter how dated the system is, if it can kill your enemy, it works.

 

[Gunnar]

Doesn't matter how dated the system is, if it can kill your enemy, it works.

Even the Mark 1 Rock.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Even the Mark 1 Rock.

As was proven earlier this year in another part of Asia https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53071913

 

[MilEME09]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/armenia-ready-to-talk-ceasefire-amid-azerbaijan-clashes-1.5129769?cid=sm%3Atrueanthem%3Actvnews%3Apost&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

After over 4 days of fighting, Armenia says they are ready to talk. I wonder what prompted the change of stance? Perhaps their actual casualty numbers are much higher then reported.

https://www.funker530.com/azerbaijani-strike-kill-count/

With video like this, no wonder, thats a lot of casualties.

 

[FJAG]

New Azerbaijani music video showing their military gear.

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2020/10/02/958489223369374000/640x360_MP4_958489223369374000.mp4

:cheers: