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Boeing/Bombardier Discussion

AlexanderM

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JT told Trump, no Super Hornets.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/12/justin-trudeau-tells-donald-trump-will-block-boeing-contracts/

Mr Trudeau met the US President at the White House for talks on the North American Free Trade Agreement and said he raised the issue of Bombardier “directly”, outlining his opposition to US anti-dumping policy. “I highlighted to the president how we disagree vehemently with Commerce’s decision to bring in countervailing and anti-dumping duties against Bombardier, that we feel this is not something that is warranted and quite frankly something that we look very negatively upon,” he said after the meeting.

“The attempts by Boeing to put tens of thousands of aerospace workers out of work across Canada is not something we look on positively.”
 

Altair

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So no super hornet, no F35

Which one would Canada pick then out of the 3 remaining jets?
 

AlexanderM

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I'm still expecting the fleet replacement will be with the F-35. Either in the next mandate or they will frame a policy change.
 

MilEME09

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Probably next mandate, though if they can't work this out by the next election, it is going to be a lot of fodder for the other parties, though really who outside this website actually cares about defense issues?
 

Rifleman62

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AlexanderM said:
JT told Trump, no Super Hornets.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/12/justin-trudeau-tells-donald-trump-will-block-boeing-contracts/

Mr Trudeau met the US President at the White House for talks on the North American Free Trade Agreement and said he raised the issue of Bombardier “directly”, outlining his opposition to US anti-dumping policy. “I highlighted to the president how we disagree vehemently with Commerce’s decision to bring in countervailing and anti-dumping duties against Bombardier, that we feel this is not something that is warranted and quite frankly something that we look very negatively upon,” he said after the meeting.

“The attempts by Boeing to put tens of thousands of aerospace workers out of work across Canada is not something we look on positively.”

In reality, Trudeau is a pipsqueak when speaking to a seasoned businessman (POTUS/bully/whatever)

Too bad what Bombardier wants sets this government's policy decisions. Insane, but Liberal eh.
 

MilEME09

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Rifleman62 said:
in reality, Trudeau is a pipsqueak when speaking to a seasoned businessman (POTUS/bully/whatever)

Too bad what Bombardier wants set this government's policy decisions. Insane, but Liberal eh.

Bombardier unfortunately needs to be left to fail, and be forced to restructure, It would be a great company, if it actually had a business model that wasn't aimed at government hand outs.
 

Pencil Tech

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MilEME09 said:
Bombardier unfortunately needs to be left to fail, and be forced to restructure, It would be a great company, if it actually had a business model that wasn't aimed at government hand outs.

The same could be said about Boeing.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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MilEME09 said:
Probably next mandate, though if they can't work this out by the next election, it is going to be a lot of fodder for the other parties, though really who outside this website actually cares about defense issues?

Canadians don't care what jet we have or that we even have them.  They didn't care that the F35 was the best/worst jet, they only cared about the big price tag.
 

PuckChaser

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Humphrey Bogart said:
Canadians don't care what jet we have or that we even have them.  They didn't care that the F35 was the best/worst jet, they only cared about the big price tag.

Until they see the other big pricetags, unfortunately. Support for the CAF is strong until they actually see the amount of 0s on the price of proper equipment.
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Breaking News on CTV Montreal newscast, everyone: Airbus acquires majority stake in C-Series.

Details to follow, but creating this marriage is certainly not what Boeing had in mind when they started their attempt at breaking Bombardier.
 

Rifleman62

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Some details:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bombardier-airbus-c-series-1.4357567

Europe's Airbus to buy majority stake in Bombardier CSeries program
- The Canadian Press - Oct 16, 2017 6:42 PM ET
CSeries headquarters will remain in Montreal area, 2nd assembly line will be set up in Alabama

European aircraft giant Airbus Group is buying a majority stake in Bombardier's CSeries program.

The two aircraft manufacturers announced the partnership Monday evening, weeks after the United States announced 300 per cent preliminary duties on exports of the aircraft following a complaint from Airbus rival Boeing.

The CSeries headquarters will remain in the Montreal area but a second assembly line for the 100- to 150-seat plane will be set up at an Airbus facility in Alabama.

The partnership is expected to result in significant CSeries production cost savings by leveraging Airbus's supply chain expertise.

Airbus will acquire a 50.01 per cent interest in the CSeries Aircraft Limited Partnership, which manufactures and sells the plane.

Bombardier will own 31 per cent and the Quebec government's investment agency will hold 19 per cent.



https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/bombardier-sells-majority-stake-in-c-series-to-airbus/article36610340/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

Bombardier sells majority stake in C Series to Airbus - 16 Oct 17


Bombardier Inc. has struck an agreement to sell control of its marquee C Series airliner program to Europe's Airbus in a surprise move that gives the Canadian plane maker more firepower in a battle against Boeing Co.

Under an agreement announced Monday evening, Airbus said it will buy a 50.01 per cent interest in the C Series limited partnership and provide procurement, sales and marketing and customer support expertise to the airliner program. Bombardier's stake would be 31 per cent and Quebec will own about 19 per cent.

"I have no doubt that our partnership with Bombardier will boost sales and the value of this program tremendously," Airbus chief executive Tom Enders said in a statement. "Not only will this partnership secure the C Series and its industrial operations in Canada, the U.K., and China but we also bring new jobs to the U.S. Airbus will benefit from strengthening its product portfolio in the high-volume single-aisle market."

The partnership should more than double the value of the C Series program and ensure the airliner realizes its full potential, Bombardier chief executive Alain Bellemare said.

No cash is changing hands in the deal and the C Series partnership assumes no debt as part of the transaction, the partners said



http://business.financialpost.com/transportation/airlines/europes-airbus-to-buy-majority-stake-in-bombardiers-cseries-bombardier

Europe's Airbus to buy majority stake in Bombardier's CSeries
- Alicja Siekierska - October 16, 2017
The agreement brings together Airbus' global reach and scale with Bombardier's newest, state-of-the-art jet aircraft family

Bombardier Inc. announced late Monday that rival aerospace giant Airbus SE will acquire a majority stake of the CSeries program, a major strategic move that comes as the company faces the prospect of permanent massive duties in the U.S.

Under the agreement, which was signed Monday, Airbus will acquire a 50.1 per cent stake in the CSeries program. Bombardier will now own approximately 31 per cent, while Investissement Quebec will own 19 per cent.

“Airbus is the perfect partner for us, Quebec and Canada,” Bombardier chief executive Alain Bellemare said in a statement.

“Their global scale, strong customer relationship and operational expertise are key ingredients for unleashing the full value of the C Series.”

The partnership comes as Bombardier grapples with 300 per cent duties on U.S. imports of its C-Series jet, thanks to a petition filed with the U.S. Department of Commerce and U.S. International Trade Commission by its rival, the Boeing Co.

The Commerce Department imposed hefty duties against Bombardier, issuing a 220 per cent countervailing duty and 80 per cent anti-dumping duty, largely over the sale of 75 CSeries jets to Delta Air Lines Inc.

On a conference call with reporters Monday, Bellemare and Airbus chief executive Tom Enders said the partnership was not motivated by the ongoing trade dispute with Boeing.

“This is win-win for everybody,” Enders said in a statement. “The C Series, with its state-of-the-art design and great economics, is a great fit with our existing single-aisle aircraft family and rapidly extends our product offering into a fast growing market sector. I have no doubt that our partnership with Bombardier will boost sales and the value of this programme tremendously.”

Bellemare added that the company will continue to fight the trade case against Boeing, stressing that there was strategic value to joining forces with Airbus.

“We are confident that we will have huge success with this program moving forward,” Bellemare said.

According to the press release, the companies expect “significant C Series production costs savings” as a result of leveraging Airbus’ supply chain expertise.

The joint venture’s headquarters and “primary assembly line” will remain in Quebec, but Airbus will add C Series production at its factory in Alabama to serve U.S. customers.

The deal came following earlier in the day that Bombardier was looking for investors and considering selling parts of its aerospace business.

According to a Bloomberg report citing sources familiar with the matter, Bombardier had been considering a disposal of assets, including its Q400 turboprop and CRJ regional-jet unit.

In a note to clients released Monday, Credit Suisse analyst Robert Spingarn said there was “some logic” in Bombardier either pursuing a possible sale of its CRJ or Q400 program, or looking at a joint venture that may involve the CSeries, particularly given the trade tariffs imposed by the U.S. government.

The previously beleaguered CSeries program — which was both overdue and over-budget for years — has been a crucial part of the chief executive Alain Bellemare’s five-year turnaround plan aimed at improving cash flows and increasing profit growth.

The Quebec government acquired a 49.5 per cent stake in the CSeries program for $1-billion in 2015.




 

MarkOttawa

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UK worked hard on this, Belfast jobs?  So now RCAF Typhoons via BAE?

Mark
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dapaterson

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I suspect that Bombardier's 30% of the joint venture with Airbus will be worth more than their previous 50% - Airbus has clout that Bombardier does not.
 

AlexanderM

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A shot across the bow of the good ship America First! I would imagine that JT knew about this prior to his meeting with Trump and perhaps gave the go ahead based on what happened in that meeting. I am of course just speculating. Now if America First messes with the C Series or does not relent the response will come from Canada, the UK and the EU.
 

MilEME09

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AlexanderM said:
A shot across the bow of the good ship America First! I would imagine that JT knew about this prior to his meeting with Trump and perhaps gave the go ahead based on what happened in that meeting. I am of course just speculating. Now if America First messes with the C Series or does not relent the response will come from Canada, the UK and the EU.

Could Bombardier get around the duties though by assembling the delta order and future US orders at this Alabama line that is being set up?
 

AlexanderM

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MilEME09 said:
Could Bombardier get around the duties though by assembling the delta order and future US orders at this Alabama line that is being set up?
I'm not entirely certain but if the C Series sold in America are manufactured in America then they would not be imports, so I would imagine that would make a difference.
 

MilEME09

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AlexanderM said:
I'm not entirely certain but if the C Series sold in America are manufactured in America then they would not be imports, so I would imagine that would make a difference.

Then if so airbus just gave bombardier a loop hole in the duties placed on them, the question now is, how are we going to scratch airbus's back?
 

AlexanderM

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MilEME09 said:
Then if so airbus just gave bombardier a loop hole in the duties placed on them, the question now is, how are we going to scratch airbus's back?
More orders for Airbus in the Canadian market perhaps.
 
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