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As long as FP is only needed one night a week and one weekend a month...
CAF Security Forces [Split from RCN Anti Drone Weapon]
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As long as FP is only needed one night a week and one weekend a month...
ArmyRick
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Can be spun up
Not opposed to giving them a role they might be able to realistically accomplish.
Would likely need a complete restructure of reserve establishments. And we know how well that can go.
This was discussed extensively upthread. PRes units are not reliable force generators for a prolonged standing task, particularly without the draw of an actual deployed mission with all the benefits that entails. It’s also “continuing full time service” and likely a breach of the NDA.
Looking at where the bases are, this wouldn’t likely be sustainable with local or even regional PRes presence.
Offer some CBTA reservists Class C and a Force Protection qualification course to backfill or augment? Absolutely. But this needs to be a RegF construct and primarily manned that way for a lot of reasons.
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Full time jobs, widely dispersed across Canada in existing metropolitan areas, with existing CAF infrastructure to manage pay and benefits. Part timers locally available to bulk up the requirement when needs must. Full timers train and supervise part timers while a skeleton cadre of full timers supply minimal operational staffing on a 24/7 basis.
More hybrid elements.
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If we’re talking F-35s, P-8s, and MQ-9Bs, this brings a whole host of issues.
This isn’t back in the day where you can disperse those assets and just need a location. There are huge security (physical, IT, etc) concerns and parking 401 Sqn at Edmonton International Airport would require creating hangars, weapons storage facilities, SCIFs, ops spaces, etc to allow them to operate. Same with the other assets. Will Calgary or Pearson or Halifax International Airport allow that? Do they have the space to do so?
It isn’t impossible, but it would be a huge undertaking. By comparison, creating Reserve units or re-rolling existing Reg F or Res units might actually be easier.
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That’s a good point that people seem to miss.
The “deployment” could be NORAD, but it doesn’t change the “continuing F/T service” part.
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Apparently everything is hard. And usually too hard.
No. We just know what we’re talking about and recognize the difference between PRes and RegF force generation and employment. Most of us have done this for real in some capacity.
Yes. But I could see the AREs role in support to augment and surge support as well as deployments. Not too mention smaller short tasks.
But not a full time effect
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No, it is not. The RCAF is doing it properly IMHO. Identifying the need; backing it up with analysis; identifying possible sources of PYs and taking the package to the VCDS for action.
The RCAF needs a fulltime security force and is going to get one- one way or another. They are not going to bodge together a series of army owned, class A folks as a permanent solution.
ArmyRick
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I totally get the line of thinking. Remember during the GWOT, the CAF decided to put many P Res on LONG term class B to augment HQ, training centers and even some other odd jobs? It created a bundle of problems that were not easily solved. Like it or not, there are bureaucratic rules and regulations that would require a major overhaul before it becomes feasible to go back down the road of putting so many reservist on long term class B.
For air force security, I agree. It should be a Reg F series of squadrons (personally I think they should also have MANPADS as well be basic infantry guys).
For air force security, I agree. It should be a Reg F series of squadrons (personally I think they should also have MANPADS as well be basic infantry guys).
OldSolduer
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The FP or whatever they are going to be called needs to belong to the RCAF and under RCAF command.
FJAG
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It really depends on the duration and costs involved with maintaining a full-time presence.
In short, I fully agree that there must be a full-time element available that provides the protection required on a high readiness basis. But in most cases the surprise attack that you speak of is the beginning of a longer term phase of hostilities and there will be a need to replace or augment the full-time core with reservists who have been on some form of tiered readiness.
I assume that is said facetiously. And I agree. Anyone who expects full-time vital point protection to be provided by Class As during peacetime is being foolish and completely missing the point of the concept of reserve service. Class As are there to train and prepare - they are not there to do. In order to provide an active defence they need to be 1) trained (including under Class A service) and 2) placed on active service or called out on service or have volunteered for Class B or C service.
They actually provided a fairly reliable percentage pool of full-time people representing in excess of 15% of the force we had in Afghanistan from 2006 through 2011 and afterwards. And that was in a situation with a very poor ARes structure which we had then and continue to have now. In a properly designed structure they could do much better.
That's actually a bit of a misunderstanding of the term. You need to first take a look at the accompanying element which is "officers and non-commissioned members who are enrolled for ... ." Civilians initially enroll for either continuing full-time or other than continuing full-time service. In the normal context that continues, but there are instances where the situation changes when reservists are called out on service or placed on active service. The point with that is that the full-time service that they have been "mobilized" for has a temporary nature to it albeit that the length of that period may be for a considerable period of time.
Rerolling units is not an issue at all - other than the momentary resistance of those currently serving (or honouraries) and heavily committed to the status quo. Over the period of Canada's history we have rerolled units. A simple MOO and CFOO takes care of it with a much more complex equipping and training plan. I would think, however, the question of rerolling or transferring units from or to the supplementary order of battle needs a look at the complete army structure including the concurrent needs of other branches of the army.
Exactly. Let's look at one possibility. We create a hybrid airfield defence regiment to protect Trenton. Form it with a RegF HQ, a RegF air defence bty and a Reg F security company (MP or infantry) all posted to Trenton. Add to that regiment two ARes AD batteries and one ARes security company which can be located within a few hundred miles of Trenton and who conduct normal ARes Class A training, either as we understand it or under an improved system, with annual exercises at Trenton. There are numerous issues that need to be decided on. Will the ARes units be equipped or just share equipment of the RegF? What notice to move would the ARes units be under? Will the ARes units be oversized - for example a 200 man bty but required to only generate 100 people at 7 days NTM? What mechanism will be put in place by the GiC to allow for a rapid call out of the Regt's ARes elements?
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Helmets on: war story ...Back in the 1970s and '80s we and the Brits had a multi-stage PRes
cdn:Comm Reserve) (
TAVR) augmentation system. The 
Comm Reserve was formally tasked to augment Regular Force fixed communications units which would then send regulars to field units. There was also, we used it a lot in preparing for RV-81, a mechanism for us (1 Sig Regt) to directly train Comm Res units in their home locations (Toronto and Hamilton in 1980/81). The Brits identified the security and 'hardening' of dispersed communication centres as a key problem and on Ex Spearpoint 80. Territorial Army engineer units were tasked early to backfill behind a BAOR engineer unit that went and dug protective shelters for the soft-skinned RSigs vehicles. Then platoons of the TAVR Mercian Regt (I'm pretty sure that's who it was) were deployed to defend the Comm Cens. Those platoons had been trained for that task in their homer locations.
RangerRay
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It’s been a while since I’ve had any practical contact in the Army, but am I wrong in thinking that the skill sets needed to permanently secure a domestic military facility with appropriate policies, legislation, use of force training and ROE with loaded weapons a set not usually found in the infantry? Didn’t we once have a trade whose job was to do just that, but now just want to be civy PD?
Based on my limited knowledge, this should be a unique full-time trade with reserve augmentation where it works.
Based on my limited knowledge, this should be a unique full-time trade with reserve augmentation where it works.
lenaitch
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The locals, including their elected representatives, might be less than thrilled. Apparently they are quite loud. Some may call it the sound of freedom.
Just a sampling:
Vermont Air National Guard presents plan to cut down on F-35 noise
The Vermont Air National Guard detailed a new initiative to use afterburners on the F-35s to mitigate the impact of noise on local communities.
www.burlingtonfreepress.com
Unhealthy F-35 noise 'spends' millions of USD to insulate homes
Undoubtedly, in times of conflict, our top concern should be the safety of our society. Having squadrons of battle-ready F-35s can provide the assurance we need
bulgarianmilitary.com
Japanese Want F-35s 'Kicked Out' From Country Despite China Threat; Politicians Join 'Anti USA' Chorus
Politicians and residents of Okinawa, where the Kadena Air Base of the United States is located, have once again expressed their displeasure with the increasing number of foreign fighter jets like the F-35 Lightning II causing noise pollution in the region. Biden, Sunak, Modi: How US, UK & India...
www.eurasiantimes.com
Fort Smith warns people of noise from air base
The city of Fort Smith has issued a noise advisory warning about fighter jets at the Ebbing Air National Guard Base.
www.4029tv.com
Since we like to use Arctic FOLs and detach jets to various places, like Trenton, to various places for various needs, one thinks the security would have to be replicated, somehow, at all of these places.
Lance Wiebe
Sr. Member
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If memory serves, way back when, we also had "enhanced" security for the CF-101's and the Genie missiles.
I realize that this only was only at a couple of bases (three?) but soldiers were posted to the Bases from all of the combat arms Regiments.
I seem to remember that most, if not all, the senior positions were Infantry, but soldiers were posted there for a three year posting from Infantry, Armour and Engineer units.
I have no idea if something similar could happen now. The Army is much smaller, and the loss of half a dozen soldiers from a Unit for three years will be hard to take.
I realize that this only was only at a couple of bases (three?) but soldiers were posted to the Bases from all of the combat arms Regiments.
I seem to remember that most, if not all, the senior positions were Infantry, but soldiers were posted there for a three year posting from Infantry, Armour and Engineer units.
I have no idea if something similar could happen now. The Army is much smaller, and the loss of half a dozen soldiers from a Unit for three years will be hard to take.
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The locals, including their elected representatives, might be less than thrilled. Apparently they are quite loud. Some may call it the sound of freedom.
Just a sampling:
Vermont Air National Guard presents plan to cut down on F-35 noise
The Vermont Air National Guard detailed a new initiative to use afterburners on the F-35s to mitigate the impact of noise on local communities.www.burlingtonfreepress.comUnhealthy F-35 noise 'spends' millions of USD to insulate homes
Undoubtedly, in times of conflict, our top concern should be the safety of our society. Having squadrons of battle-ready F-35s can provide the assurance we needJapanese Want F-35s 'Kicked Out' From Country Despite China Threat; Politicians Join 'Anti USA' Chorus
Politicians and residents of Okinawa, where the Kadena Air Base of the United States is located, have once again expressed their displeasure with the increasing number of foreign fighter jets like the F-35 Lightning II causing noise pollution in the region. Biden, Sunak, Modi: How US, UK & India...Fort Smith warns people of noise from air base
The city of Fort Smith has issued a noise advisory warning about fighter jets at the Ebbing Air National Guard Base.
Since we like to use Arctic FOLs and detach jets to various places, like Trenton, to various places for various needs, one thinks the security would have to be replicated, somehow, at all of these places.
We were pretty loud in Calgary too. A lot of good that did us. Or Summerside.
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That is the plan.
