CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

[Eye In The Sky]

Good point.  Not sure how to rephrase to make it more suitable.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Then let's not talk about it

 

[dapaterson]

Good point.  Not sure how to rephrase to make it more suitable.

Did the folks we can't talk about with the kit that's not allowed to be described go somewhere we can't mention and do things we're not allowed to know?

 

[sidemount]

I have no recollection of the events in question nor would I be at liberty to discuss said events if they did, in fact, occur

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Did the folks we can't talk about with the kit that's not allowed to be described go somewhere we can't mention and do things we're not allowed to know?

Nailed it!

But, no one can or can't answer that question, if there was in fact a question, or folks.  Or kit.  Or somewhere.

 

[Jarnhamar]

If I read this thread correctly (and I probably won't bother again), all of the usual suspects who complained about lack of deployments, rust out, Prime Minister <insert childish name-calling here> not willing to step up etc are now complaining that we are incapable of deploying, that doing the job that we are paid to do is somehow demeaning and that the military is only used to score political points?

:facepalm:

I'm most likely one of those usual suspects.

I get what you're saying about people who complain about no deployments then complain about deployments.

Guilty.

I want to be sent on a meaningful deployment, not feel like Maple Resolve for 6 months where I'm paraded around in what feels like a dog and pony show if I'm being honest.  I'm getting paid so I'll do what I'm told and go hang out for half a year but we're so undermanned I know I won't be deploying with my section, platoon or even company proper.
Our deployments are a smorgasbord of whoever is healthy and fit to go.  I can see troops getting burned out because they'll be doing multiple rotations in short order just to meet this commitment.

 

[QV]

That may be .... but the Club rules, agreed by its members, call for 2%.  Some of those members are essentially permanent FOBs and deployment is in their backyard.  Latvia deploying to Afghanistan or the Congo when Russia is knocking at their back door may not be the best use of the Club's resources.

And 2% is the floor not the ceiling.

 

[Furniture]

I'm most likely one of those usual suspects.

I get what you're saying about people who complain about no deployments then complain about deployments.

Guilty.

I want to be sent on a meaningful deployment, not feel like Maple Resolve for 6 months where I'm paraded around in what feels like a dog and pony show if I'm being honest.  I'm getting paid so I'll do what I'm told and go hang out for half a year but we're so undermanned I know I won't be deploying with my section, platoon or even company proper.
Our deployments are a smorgasbord of whoever is healthy and fit to go. Battalions won't have 3 companies deploying individually, they'll have one company made up of whoever they can press-gang. I strongly suspect healthy and fit dudes will have multiple back to back tours because there simply isn't enough for proper rotations, unless we start putting a lot of reserves to work.

It's going to be a sight if we're deploying whole battalions.

I think too many people discount the value of dog and pony shows at home and abroad. We need to be seen, it doesn't matter how good we are at what we do if nobody knows we exist. JTF2 gets away with it because they are SF, but the rest of us need to be content to march/sail/fly around waving the flag and being seen from time to time.

The world needs to know that Canada is engaged, politically and militarily all over the world. They also need to know that Canada isn't alone, and our friends are also engaged across the globe. Sometimes we get to go to the big game and make the plays, other times we go to the pancake breakfast and sign autographs while posing for pics...

 

[Kirkhill]

:goodpost:

 

[CBH99]

Pancake breakfasts & community relations were THE BEST GIGS I ever had!  Tim Horton's Camp Day, always a blast      :nod:

 

[Infanteer]

I want to be sent on a meaningful deployment,

So, shoring up NATOs eastern flank is meaningless?

What is meaningful?  Putting on a blue beret and watching some group in Africa slaughter another group?  Or how about endless rotations in an insurgency?

 

[dapaterson]

Six months as an incremental instructor in Meaford!

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

So, shoring up NATOs eastern flank is meaningless?

What is meaningful?  Putting on a blue beret and watching some group in Africa slaughter another group?  Or how about endless rotations in an insurgency?

I agree it's a "meaningless" mission in that I dont believe that Russia is a real threat to NATO nor do I believe that a MN bde would have actually stopped a determined russia from attacking anything. The whole thing is essentially just Maple Resolve x 6 months x Europe.

However, in terms of training value I think it's great that we're actually going back to higher level MN training, even if we do it a BG at a time. Heck, perhaps even our Div HQ will get a legitimate workout with real troops (and not just sims every 2 years). Finally, looking forward to a trip to Europe every 3 years or so isn't the worst thing either (unless some sort of more substantial mission (COIN, conventional, whatever the government decides....)

 

[Altair]

So, shoring up NATOs eastern flank is meaningless?

What is meaningful?  Putting on a blue beret and watching some group in Africa slaughter another group?  Or how about endless rotations in an insurgency?

If a real conflict were to breakout,  we all know that these 4 000 men and women would be destroyed in place before NATO could respond.

So in that sense it is kind of useless.

I'm still excited if I get to go.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So, shoring up NATOs eastern flank is meaningless?

What is meaningful?  Putting on a blue beret and watching some group in Africa slaughter another group?  Or how about endless rotations in an insurgency?

 

In hindsight maybe there would be some pretty cool high end training or possibly lots of courses run but yes I still feel the idea of us shoring up NATO's eastern flank is meaningless.
Meaningful to me would be targeting insurgents and other people murdering civilians yes.  Kicking turkey out of NATO would be nice too.

If we're putting a training spin on it 3 month rotations would be better.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A few more details from the CDS (partial transcript of Canadian Press video) ...

... we're working on a deployment of approximately 450.  That will form the nucleus, consisting of command & control, the support, some of the intelligence functions and providing a rifle company equipped with LAV, as the nucleus for other nations, which we encourage to contribute to form the partnership, an enduring, sustained partnership for the long-term presence in Latvia ...

More, from the print version - highlights mine:

... Speaking on the sidelines of the summit, defence chief Gen. Jonathan Vance revealed that Canada will send about 450 soldiers along with armoured vehicles to the Baltic state as part of an "enduring" NATO presence in Eastern Europe.

The Canadians will form the "nucleus" of a battle group in Latvia, Vance said, that with the addition of forces from other allies, is expected to grow to about 1,000 troops. Germany, the United States and Britain are leading similar forces in Lithuania, Poland and Estonia.

Allies are expected to begin announcing contributions at a conference next week, while officials indicated the first Canadian troops could begin arriving in Latvia early next year ...

Not quite the full battalion that's been suggested/talked about upthread - sounds more like a rifle company + a BN HQ.  It'll be interesting to see who'll donate a company or so to Canada's team.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Further details of the whole bundle of land/air/sea assets from The Canadian Press:

...Troop deployment to Latvia:

Canada will contribute around 450 troops as well as light armoured vehicles and other equipment to a multinational force in the former Soviet republic of Latvia. Defence chief Gen. Jonathan Vance says the Canadian contingent will form the "nucleus" of what will eventually be a 1,000-strong battle group that will act as a deterrent against Russian aggression in the region. Germany, the United Kingdom and the United States are making similar contributions in Lithuania, Estonia and Poland, respectively. NATO officials insist the force is purely defensive, though Russia has condemned it as an encroachment. The mission has been described as "open-ended," meaning there is no time frame for when it will end.

Air Policing Mission:

Canada will deploy up to six CF-18 fighter jets to Europe where they will patrol allied airspace against foreign threats. Canadian CF-18s were previously deployed to Lithuania in 2014 after Russia annexed Crimea and started supporting separatist forces in eastern Ukraine. Officials said they have not determined exactly when the fighters will be deployed or where, though they did say NATO has air policing missions not just in Eastern Europe, but also Iceland and other parts of Europe. Officials say the total number of personnel attached to such a deployment is about 75 to 100. The commitment comes at the same time the Liberal government has warned about a shortage of CF-18s to meet Canada's obligations to NATO and NORAD.

Naval Frigate:

Canadian frigates have been continually attached to a NATO fleet operating in the Mediterranean and Black seas since April 2014, shortly after Russia annexed Ukraine. The most recent sent to the region was HMCS Charlottetown, which replaced HMCS Fredericton last month. The government says Canadian frigates will continue in that role for the foreseeable future, though it could move the ship around to other areas such as the Baltic Sea. Canada's frigates include a complement of about 225 personnel.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I think too many people discount the value of dog and pony shows at home and abroad. We need to be seen, it doesn't matter how good we are at what we do if nobody knows we exist. JTF2 gets away with it because they are SF, but the rest of us need to be content to march/sail/fly around waving the flag and being seen from time to time.

The world needs to know that Canada is engaged, politically and militarily all over the world. They also need to know that Canada isn't alone, and our friends are also engaged across the globe. Sometimes we get to go to the big game and make the plays, other times we go to the pancake breakfast and sign autographs while posing for pics...

Not even JTF2 is immune from dog and pony shows.

Back on topic though, slightly disappointed the commitment isn't a little larger.  I'd like to see an Armour Squadron and 2x infantry companies but I'm ok with baby steps. 

I'm sure the govt has other plans.

This is also a good opportunity for some good old fashioned industrial marketing.  Who in Eastern Europe wants to buy some LAV 6.0  ;D

 

[The Bread Guy]

Back on topic though, slightly disappointed the commitment isn't a little larger.  I'd like to see an Armour Squadron and 2x infantry companies but I'm ok with baby steps. 

I guess that's where NATO allies get a chance to pony up - like Belgium has with (what sounds like about) a company for Lithuania.

Or will it be like when Canada needed helping Kandahar?

Time will tell ...

 

[OldSolduer]

Pancake breakfasts & community relations were THE BEST GIGS I ever had!  Tim Horton's Camp Day, always a blast      :nod:

That's a deployment !