CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

[rmc_wannabe]

FTFY yet again.

3 countries all lay claim to that wedge in the Baltic.

1 has a historical claim.
1 has a cultural/geographical claim.
1 has squatters rights based on the Potsdam Conference.

 

[KevinB]

3 countries all lay claim to that wedge in the Baltic.

1 has a historical claim.
1 has a cultural/geographical claim.
1 has squatters rights based on the Potsdam Conference.

Clearly someone else should take it just to be fair
I propose the Republic of Kevin.

 

[suffolkowner]

Canadian Army Leopard 2 Main Battle Tanks begin operational cross-country transfer - Canada.ca

Beginning June 28, 2023, Canadian Army Leopard 2 Main Battle Tanks will begin transportation by semi-trailer flatbed from Edmonton to Montreal, QC. Members of the public may notice these Canadian Army vehicles on major Canadian highways. These activities are in direct support of Op REASSURANCE...

www.canada.ca

Leopards on the move to Latvia
Faster than expected?

 

[IKnowNothing]

Canadian Army Leopard 2 Main Battle Tanks begin operational cross-country transfer - Canada.ca

Beginning June 28, 2023, Canadian Army Leopard 2 Main Battle Tanks will begin transportation by semi-trailer flatbed from Edmonton to Montreal, QC. Members of the public may notice these Canadian Army vehicles on major Canadian highways. These activities are in direct support of Op REASSURANCE...

www.canada.ca

Leopards on the move to Latvia
Faster than expected?

I think the whole "it's gonna take a year for 15 tanks to get there" criticism was born of misinterpreting a comment that it would take that long for the full additional commitment (support personnel) to get there. It was my interpretation that the squadron was going to be deployed by fall all along.

 

[GK .Dundas]

15 tank half Sqn is more tanks than the polish tank company and Spanish tank commitment that’s there right now

But the question I have iss why we haven't and aren't deploying a doctrinal standard squadron?
I suspect that it's because we lack both the vehicles and more importantly the people to deploy and maintain a standard size squadron.

I think the whole "it's gonna take a year for 15 tanks to get there" criticism was born of misinterpreting a comment that it would take that long for the full additional commitment (support personnel) to get there. It was my interpretation that the squadron was going to be deployed by fall all along.

Either that or they're embarrassed?

 

[markppcli]

But the question I have iss why we haven't and aren't deploying a doctrinal standard squadron?
I suspect that it's because we lack both the vehicles and more importantly the people to deploy and maintain a standard size squadron.

Well we have 6 Bns rotating through Latvia. We have 3 armour Squadrons. Splitting that in half is likely the easiest way to match deployment cycles and allows the full Sqn to do work up and then split the deployment period. Seems pretty simple ?

For what it’s worth half a squadron and a rifle company is a pretty normal combat team for us to train and work within. Hopefully we get an engineer troop for the full package shortly.

 

[KevinB]

Well we have 6 Bns rotating through Latvia. We have 3 armour Squadrons. Splitting that in half is likely the easiest way to match deployment cycles and allows the full Sqn to do work up and then split the deployment period. Seems pretty simple ?

For what it’s worth half a squadron and a rifle company is a pretty normal combat team for us to train and work within. Hopefully we get an engineer troop for the full package shortly.

I guess if you just throw your doctrine in the trash along the way — which admittedly is a pretty Canadian thing to do.

 

[Furniture]

I guess if you just throw your doctrine in the trash along the way — which admittedly is a pretty Canadian thing to do.

I think government wishes are now running into the very real staffing shortages, and compromises are being made.

The CAF did "more with less" for decades, now the GoC will be getting the "less with less" they always should have been getting.

 

[markppcli]

I guess if you just throw your doctrine in the trash along the way — which admittedly is a pretty Canadian thing to do.

Pretty sure the whole point of a BC is to allow the Squadron to split.

 

[KevinB]

Pretty sure the whole point of a BC is to allow the Squadron to split.

Yes. But I doubt that the split was expected to be on different continents, and a very large ocean between.

 

[McG]

Will the tanks be getting dressed in Add-on Armour once they get to Montreal?

 

[YZT580]

Will the tanks be getting dressed in Add-on Armour once they get to Montreal?

why wouldn't they use rail instead of blocking the transcanada with 15 oversize loads?

 

[CBH99]

I think the whole "it's gonna take a year for 15 tanks to get there" criticism was born of misinterpreting a comment that it would take that long for the full additional commitment (support personnel) to get there. It was my interpretation that the squadron was going to be deployed by fall all along.

I was surprised - genuinely - at how quickly our first 4 Leopards arrived in Ukraine (or did they land in Poland?)

I hadn't even finished writing some pessimistic comment about it when I saw one being offloaded from a cargo plane on Instagram




I do question why they didn't just load them up onto a train though...

 

[lenaitch]

why wouldn't they use rail instead of blocking the transcanada with 15 oversize loads?

Does CFB Edmonton have rail access and a loading ramp? Even if they had to find one somewhere else in the city, does it have the capacity. Same at the Montreal end. Other than container and bulk, water-side rail isn't all that common anymore.

Or it could be that CN simply wasn't interest unless it was a bulk run of all the tanks. Special runs interferes with their big money makers of unit trains. Don't military moves typically require a rider car for escorts?

 

[FJAG]

But the question I have iss why we haven't and aren't deploying a doctrinal standard squadron?

I think that we should be shifting to a 14 + 1 doctrinal squadron anyway, so this doesn't bother me.

 

[Fabius]

CFB Edmonton can’t do rail. No rail head.
Doesn’t mean they could not move them to Wainwright or Suffield both have rail facilities.

CN is still moving stuff out of Wainwright from MR by rail.

I would not read much into the 15 MBT vs 19 MBT. It’s not related to anything doctrine wise in terms of a Sqn ORBAT, it’s likely a mix of personnel and equipment availability along with the numbers of specific MBT variants.

Might even be that the CA is deploying extra MBT same as the RCAF deploys CF18 6 packs while only ever planning to fight 4 of them at once from what I understand.

 

[MJP]

CFB Edmonton can’t do rail. No rail head.
Doesn’t mean they could not move them to Wainwright or Suffield both have rail facilities.

The rail head doesn't have to be at the base to do a train loading. Edmonton has done rail moves before from Edmonton, just takes a bit more planning for tracked vehicle.

 

[Fabius]

The rail head doesn't have to be at the base to do a train loading. Edmonton has done rail moves before from Edmonton, just takes a bit more planning for tracked vehicle.

I agree, I think Op KINETIC in 99 mounted out of Edmonton by rail.
Smarter than me log types have told me that even the civilian yards in Edmonton now lack the ability.
I’m skeptical still but maybe there is truly no ability to load by rail in Edmonton and the G4 Tn folks were right.

 

[IKnowNothing]

I would not read much into the 15 MBT vs 19 MBT. It’s not related to anything doctrine wise in terms of a Sqn ORBAT, it’s likely a mix of personnel and equipment availability along with the numbers of specific MBT variants.

20 - 1 (RCEME) - 1 (Reference) - 2 (RCACS Gagetown) = 16

If the A6M's are being stood down for refit 15 is pretty much where the buck stops short of sending un-upgraded A4's. Between the 2 at RCACS and 1 unnaccounted for that's three for conversion training/ workup for follow on rotations

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I agree, I think Op KINETIC in 99 mounted out of Edmonton by rail.
Smarter than me log types have told me that even the civilian yards in Edmonton now lack the ability.
I’m skeptical still but maybe there is truly no ability to load by rail in Edmonton and the G4 Tn folks were right.

Imagine if they had an airstrip capable of landing a C-17...