CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Kirkhill]

Number of Employees: Ford employs approximately 7,000 people in Canada, while an additional 18,000 people are employed in the more than 400 Ford and Ford-Lincoln dealerships across the country.

Number of facilities worldwide: 62 plants worldwide

Number of vehicles produced annually (2023) 161,270

Number of engines produced annually (2023): 277,780

Ford - CVMA

Number of Employees: Ford employs approximately 7,000 people in Canada, while an additional 18,000 people are employed in the more than 400 Ford and Ford-Lincoln dealerships across the country. Number of facilities worldwide: 62 plants worldwide Number of vehicles produced annually (2023)...

www.cvma.ca

Ford Canada sales have been declining in recent years. In 2020, Ford Canada sales were 261,000 units. In 2021, Ford Canada sales fell to 241,000 units. And in 2022, Ford Canada sales fell further to 221,000 units. Some new models like the electric F-150 Lightning, Ford’s first electric pickup truck are meant to drive growth.

Ford Sales Figures – Canadian Market

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

....

Ford assembles 161,000 vehicles of all types, but predominantly trucks and SUVs, in Canada
Ford sells 220,000 to 260,000 vehicles in Canada.

Presumably those 60 to 100,000 vehicles that are not produced in Canada are produced in the US.

And Ford Canada's profits benefit the US ownership.

 

[ModlrMike]

This is already starting to manifest in the fresh produce area. There is now next to no fresh produce from the US at my local (Superstore) grocer. The products that do come from the US, and be sourced from other areas. Canadians are voting with their wallets, and retailers are not going to let product sit unsold for long.

 

[Brad Sallows]

How often does Trump have to flinch on deadlines or react to probable backroom conversations with leaders of various US industries and financial agencies and institutions before people realize the problem is likely to be resolved by Americans and that we ought not to pay irrecoverable costs and take damaging actions that will have to be paid for and undone?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ford - CVMA

Number of Employees: Ford employs approximately 7,000 people in Canada, while an additional 18,000 people are employed in the more than 400 Ford and Ford-Lincoln dealerships across the country. Number of facilities worldwide: 62 plants worldwide Number of vehicles produced annually (2023)...

www.cvma.ca

Ford Sales Figures – Canadian Market

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

....

Ford assembles 161,000 vehicles of all types, but predominantly trucks and SUVs, in Canada
Ford sells 220,000 to 260,000 vehicles in Canada.

Presumably those 60 to 100,000 vehicles that are not produced in Canada are produced in the US.

And Ford Canada's profits benefit the US ownership.

Except that Canadian numbers are a rounding error on US manufacturing capacity... we have little to no leverage here is my guess...


American manufacturers produce approximately 10 million units annually. Notable exceptions were 5.7 million automobiles manufactured in 2009 (due to crisis), and more recently 8.8 million units in 2020 due to the global COVID-19 pandemic. Production peaked during the 1970s and early 2000s at 13–15 million units.

Automotive industry in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kirkhill]

Operations began in 1986, producing just a few hundred Corollas. Now comprising two award-winning plants in Cambridge & Woodstock, ON, and almost 8,000 employees, TMMC produces nearly 500,000 vehicles each year. TMMC also holds the distinction of being the first plant outside of Japan to manufacture a Lexus.

Toyota Canada - Cars, Pickup Trucks, SUVs, Hybrids and Crossovers | Toyota Canada

The latest information and pricing on Toyota Cars, Hybrids, Crossovers, SUVs, Minivans, and Pickup Trucks - available at Toyota Dealerships in Canada.

www.toyota.ca

Toyota sells about 150,000 vehicles in Canada.

Is this what he is getting at? Japanese and Korean cars built in Canada and sold in the US? They do already have plants in the US. Presumably he wants them to transfer the assembly of those Canadian vehicles sold in the US to the US plants?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Except that Canadian numbers are a rounding error on US manufacturing capacity... we have little to no leverage here is my guess...

The Auto Pact and everything spawned from it are mostly understood to have been more to Canada's advantage than the US's, and dependent on a certain amount of forbearance on the latter's part. The same could be said for some other important things.

Meanwhile we have people high in government, and others in influential positions, who sometimes can't quite contain their personal anti-Americanism, which militates against forbearance. It's fair to complain about unjust actions against us, but our own tempers are wholly under our own control.

 

[Kirkhill]

Except that Canadian numbers are a rounding error on US manufacturing capacity... we have little to no leverage here is my guess...


American manufacturers produce approximately 10 million units annually. Notable exceptions were 5.7 million automobiles manufactured in 2009 (due to crisis), and more recently 8.8 million units in 2020 due to the global COVID-19 pandemic. Production peaked during the 1970s and early 2000s at 13–15 million units.

Automotive industry in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Agreed.

But that is true of many of Ford's (and GM's) international markets. Individually they are small. Collectively they bring in a lot of money into Ford's coffers to the benefit of US shareholders.

Does Ford really want an "Ugly American" reputation globally?

 

[brihard]

This is already starting to manifest in the fresh produce area. There is now next to no fresh produce from the US at my local (Superstore) grocer. The products that do come from the US, and be sourced from other areas. Canadians are voting with their wallets, and retailers are not going to let product sit unsold for long.

Yup, we’ve been voting with our wallet. I’m bypassing American produce at the grocery store. If it means we go without a preferred fruit or vegetable until the store restocks with some sourced elsewhere, we’re fine with that.

 

[Kirkhill]

The Auto Pact and everything spawned from it are mostly understood to have been more to Canada's advantage than the US's, and dependent on a certain amount of forbearance on the latter's part. The same could be said for some other important things.

Meanwhile we have people high in government, and others in influential positions, who sometimes can't quite contain their personal anti-Americanism, which militates against forbearance. It's fair to complain about unjust actions against us, but our own tempers are wholly under our own control.

As I recall the governments of the day (I can't remember which ones) touted the arrival of the Asian automakers, and I am pretty sure it was Toyota, on the heels of the Canada US Free Trade Agreement. It was deemed an FTA win for Ontario and Canada because Toyota could build in the small Canadian market and sell into the large US market. To the benefit of the US consumer but the detriment of the US employee.

 

[Kirkhill]

Yup, we’ve been voting with our wallet. I’m bypassing American produce at the grocery store. If it means we go without a preferred fruit or vegetable until the store restocks with some sourced elsewhere, we’re fine with that.

Our local Safeway's seems to have a lot more manoeuvering room for the carts, a lot more floor space. The produce and meat counters seem to have been purged of US product. Now the produce comes from Mexico and Latin America, from New Zealand and South Africa with locally grown tomatoes and root crops. We seem to be short of fish but my prairie-girl wife won't let me buy any of it anyway.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Our local Safeway's seems to have a lot more manoeuvering room for the carts, a lot more floor space. The produce and meat counters seem to have been purged of US product. Now the produce comes from Mexico and Latin America, from New Zealand and South Africa with locally grown tomatoes and root crops. We seem to be short of fish but my prairie-girl wife won't let me buy any of it anyway.

Fewer choices and higher prices? I suppose anyone who chooses anti-prosperity should be welcome to it.

 

[HavokFour]

This is already starting to manifest in the fresh produce area. There is now next to no fresh produce from the US at my local (Superstore) grocer. The products that do come from the US, and be sourced from other areas. Canadians are voting with their wallets, and retailers are not going to let product sit unsold for long.

It was pretty wild when I was in a grocery store on Thursday. Literally mountains of US grown produce going entirely untouched and on heavy discount, stuff from Chile and Mexico was getting grabbed immediately as it was getting (re)stocked.

 

[brihard]

It was pretty wild when I was in a grocery store on Thursday. Literally mountains of US grown produce going entirely untouched and on heavy discount, stuff from Chile and Mexico was getting grabbed immediately as it was getting (re)stocked.

Right now, immediately, it's simple stuff like produce and other groceries. Longer term, it will be plenty of other things that we may not need to buy right now, but may need next month or next year... The big one on the horizon for me is a new car within a couple years. It'll show in things like vacation travel, consumer brand choices, more awareness of the corporate ownership of which stores we shop at... Home Hardware instead of Home Depot; Petro Can instead of Esso. Things like that.

 

[ModlrMike]

Right now, immediately, it's simple stuff like produce and other groceries. Longer term, it will be plenty of other things that we may not need to buy right now, but may need next month or next year... The big one on the horizon for me is a new car within a couple years. It'll show in things like vacation travel, consumer brand choices, more awareness of the corporate ownership of which stores we shop at... Home Hardware instead of Home Depot; Petro Can instead of Esso. Things like that.

Not so easy a task. Home Hardware is a small market operation on purpose, so that they don't have to directly compete with the big boys. City folks will still need to shop at either Rona or HD - both US corporations. Corporations that employ thousands of Canadians. What we need to do is motivate these corporations to source more goods from Canada for sale here. There are still going to be profits that flow to the US, but at a much smaller rate.

 

[brihard]

Not so easy a task. Home Hardware is a small market operation on purpose, so that they don't have to directly compete with the big boys. City folks will still need to shop at either Rona or HD - both US corporations. Corporations that employ thousands of Canadians. What we need to do is motivate these corporations to source more goods from Canada for sale here. There are still going to be profits that flow to the US, but at a much smaller rate.

Yeah- but there will be growth potential there. My local home hardware is brand new; they knocked down and replaced a shitty little store with a large building center; good source of supply for the sort of projects you see in a new subdivision; decks, fences, basement finishing, etc. I'll still given them business where I can for things that they carry; and really for most of my needs at least, no big difference. Obviously it's not a substitution open to everyone.

We will see a slight value premium on demonstrable "Canadianness" for the foreseeable future.

 

[JLB50]

Yup, we’ve been voting with our wallet. I’m bypassing American produce at the grocery store. If it means we go without a preferred fruit or vegetable until the store restocks with some sourced elsewhere, we’re fine with that.

Now if only we can have more greenhouses to provide Canadians with year-round lettuce, tomatoes and other local produce that the Americans have traditionally supplied. Even before Trump started making his threats there has been a growing trend to buying locally-produced food. If a grower has a good business plan and the hydro/logistics rates aren’t too out of whack, I think it could be a viable solution for much of the country. Greenhouses could even be set up in urban areas. However, the political mindset needs to be changed in order for it to happen. Still it can happen if need be. And I think the need is definitely there already.

 

[brihard]

Now if only we can have more greenhouses to provide Canadians with year-round lettuce, tomatoes and other local produce that the Americans have traditionally supplied. Even before Trump started making his threats there has been a growing trend to buying locally-produced food. If a grower has a good business plan and the hydro/logistics rates aren’t too out of whack, I think it could be a viable solution for much of the country. Greenhouses could even be set up in urban areas. However, the political mindset needs to be changed in order for it to happen. Still it can happen if need be. And I think the need is definitely there already.

We're still part of a trading bloc with Mexico, and they can grow a lot of that too. If greenhouse agriculture makes sense, sure, but I'm not sure how much, economically, it does.

 

[Good2Golf]

When the only time article 5 was invoked which is the cornerstone of the NATO alliance, was Canada a freeloader or did we step up? How was our contribution compared to everyone else in NATO?

158 dead Canadians in AFG says we weren’t totally freeloading. That, and not allmofnCamada’s defence budget goes to NATO, like that other non-European NATO country.

Yeah- but there will be growth potential there. My local home hardware is brand new; they knocked down and replaced a shitty little store with a large building center; good source of supply for the sort of projects you see in a new subdivision; decks, fences, basement finishing, etc. I'll still given them business where I can for things that they carry; and really for most of my needs at least, no big difference. Obviously it's not a substitution open to everyone.

I go to them first, as well. They’re really expanded from the ‘double-wide’ old store.

 

[Remius]

158 dead Canadians in AFG says we weren’t totally freeloading. That, and not allmofnCamada’s defence budget goes to NATO, like that other non-European NATO country.



I go to them first, as well. They’re really expanded from the ‘double-wide’ old store.

Same. I get most of my gardening supplies there as well.

And way more parking than they used to have lol.

 

[Booter]

Only if they could build convincing, prosecutable cases on it. There’s often a difference between what police know and what we can prove.

Man is this ever true. Being a gang member and being able to prosecute them as such are two wildly different things