CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Fishbone Jones]

It is not really painting you in a corner. It is Really a yes or no. Annexation as in the acquiring territory. As in becoming the 51st state.

It actually is a yes or no. I’ll make it easier. Should Canada remain a sovereign country?

The problem with that is that sort of bilateral union is impossible. It’s just another way to say annexation. Shared currency means US currency. Do you really think the US would agree to a joint peer to peer parliament with equal footing to decide on fiscal and immigration policy?

Except it’s an apple and oranges comparison with the EU.

As I said, to become the 51st is not my decision. I'll abide with the decision of the majority of Canadians. My single vote would be based on the agreement. So it's not a yes or no.

Nothing is impossible. You never know until you sit down and discuss. The Angry Orange.

Apples and oranges? If you want to stand on a hill screaming 'Wolverines!' perhaps. I suppose to black and white adherents there is no grey.

I'm not going to agree with your premise. Yes or no is a non starter for me. To boil down a decision like this, with its many variables and possibilities, to a yes or no answer is close minded and an impediment to progress.

This is really not a lot different than Quebec sovereignty. They want a yes or no decision, without discussing post separation questions. Who's money, who's borders, who's resources, etc. All have to be answered and negotiated first. As it affects the whole country, the whole country should decide. Not just Quebec. Quebec doesn’t like that. They want the impossible black and white. Like you.

I've laid out my stance for you more than once. I've given you answers to your questions. You don't agree, that's your prerogative, but you'll just have to agree to disagree because I'm not repeating myself anymore.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

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We shouldn't allow ourselves to forget this

As for most countries. The US is not unique in this.

 

[Remius]

As I said, to become the 51st is not my decision. I'll abide with the decision of the majority of Canadians. My single vote would be based on the agreement. So it's not a yes or no.

That’s what I thought. Your non answer is the answer. Cool.

Nothing is impossible. You never know until you sit down and discuss. The Angry Orange.

Apples and oranges? If you want to stand on a hill screaming 'Wolverines!' perhaps. I suppose to black and white adherents there is no grey.

Yes. The EU system is a poor comparison.

I'm not going to agree with your premise. Yes or no is a non starter for me. To boil down a decision like this, with its many variables and possibilities, to a yes or no answer is close minded and an impediment to progress.

Ok then…

This is really not a lot different than Quebec sovereignty. They want a yes or no decision, without discussing post separation questions. Who's money, who's borders, who's resources, etc. All have to be answered and negotiated first. As it affects the whole country, the whole country should decide. Not just Quebec. Quebec doesn’t like that. They want the impossible black and white. Like you.

I've laid out my stance for you more than once. I've given you answers to your questions. You don't agree, that's your prerogative, but you'll just have to agree to disagree because I'm not repeating myself anymore.

Nice deflection. But you’ve certainly said enough enough to answer my questions on that. Thanks.

And I will agree to disagree. On most of your stance.

Cheers

 

[Rifleman62]

Up thread.

It’s a personal thing with him to satisfy his sick needs to inflect suffering on others in order to satisfy his frail ego.

Trump or Trudeau or both?

 

[Czech_pivo]

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We shouldn't allow ourselves to forget this

The exact same thing should be the mantra here in Canada.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

These pics of the dogs is just truly sickening - reminds me way to much of dogs being used on Jews in WWII.

Yep, the point I was making is that the American identity is fundamentally different from ours. It's characterized by violence and conflict.

Canada evolved peacefully for the most part. America evolved violently. What is happening now and the current tensions is IMO, the natural state of affairs.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Looking down the road, nuclear power could well be the big energy driver. With an explosion of nuclear power plants, the US is behind the 8 ball. They don't have much uranium. What they have is comparatively small deposits of low grade, on contested land uranium. The U.S. uranium industry can’t compete with the quantity and quality of uranium deposits internationally. They import almost all of it. Much of it from Canada, their largest supplier. 22% of 49 million pounds of it. They get it cheaper on the world market than they can produce it themselves. $35/lb from Canada vice $50 domestic.

With Trump saying they don't need anything Canada has, someone at the table should ask. "How's your uranium supply?"

I suspect that's one reason someone from Big Uranium is at the latest convening table assembled by Team Red Ottawa.

Interesting mix on where the US gets uranium according to the US's energy info-machine: "In 2022, 95% of the uranium purchased by U.S. nuclear power plant operators originated in other countries. Canada, which has large, high-quality uranium reserves, was the largest source of uranium purchased by U.S. nuclear power plants in 2022 at 27%. Kazakhstan was the second-largest source at 25%, followed by Russia at 12%."

Given the stats, for all of Canada's faults, there's more unstable & unreliable places to get uranium.

Then again, all of Canada's uranium comes from SK, comes from SK, who's taking a bit more of AB line (but not quite as loud, and a bit more "we want to be part of the team") on their exports. This from CBC: "... Moe said he's looking at all powers available in provincial jurisdiction to reduce any export tariff on Saskatchewan goods, should they be implemented by Ottawa ..."

Where AB's territorial about its petroleum, SK sounds like it could be just as territorial about uranium. We'll have to see how "Team Canada" they remain.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I suspect that's one reason someone from Big Uranium is at the latest convening table assembled by Team Red Ottawa.

Interesting mix on where the US gets uranium according to the US's energy info-machine: "In 2022, 95% of the uranium purchased by U.S. nuclear power plant operators originated in other countries. Canada, which has large, high-quality uranium reserves, was the largest source of uranium purchased by U.S. nuclear power plants in 2022 at 27%. Kazakhstan was the second-largest source at 25%, followed by Russia at 12%."

Given the stats, for all of Canada's faults, there's more unstable & unreliable places to get uranium.

Then again, all of Canada's uranium comes from SK, comes from SK, who's taking a bit more of AB line (but not quite as loud, and a bit more "we want to be part of the team") on their exports. This from CBC: "... Moe said he's looking at all powers available in provincial jurisdiction to reduce any export tariff on Saskatchewan goods, should they be implemented by Ottawa ..."

Where AB's territorial about its petroleum, SK sounds like it could be just as territorial about uranium. We'll have to see how "Team Canada" they remain.

I'd like to see a government mandate to go full on crazy in development of nuclear energy. Pocket reactors, refurbished nuclear power plants, new plant production. Im not sure what the problem is, but small local reactors should be an easy fix. The USS Nautilus, ran a nuclear power plant in 1957. Today, a Ford class carrier is capable of 170,000 kilowatts that can supply a city of hundreds of thousands. Even though they are highly inefficient for that purpose. We keep all our uranium for ourselves.

Well, one can dream I guess.

 

[OldSolduer]

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We shouldn't allow ourselves to forget this

In reality you could put any country's name in that. Not just the USA.

 

[JLB50]

Make no mistake, Trump is out to hurt Canada. He wants to break us so that we accept assimilation into the U.S. He also wants to break Panama through threats of force. And, similarly, Greenland (Denmark). This is not just about Canada and a new free trade deal. He is pushing for 5% defence spending for NATO…something that would break up the alliance.

In the meantime, he hardly has a bad word to say about Putin or his “Rocket Man” buddy in North Korea. He is giving the mega-billionaires more control and power than ever before using the old notion of “trickle down” economics to make the lower classes think they’re going to significantly benefit.

I was not happy at all with what Canada’s LPC or America’s Democrats have done in recent years. And the people of both countries have expressed their need for change. But Trump is only out to satisfy his sick ego.

The other night I was watching the news when I got a telephone call from a friend. While talking to him I had the tv on mute as coverage began of Trump. Even without hearing what he was saying, I could see hatred and anger written all over his face. Which reminded me of my days in the ad agency business (long ago) when tv commercial directors would come in and show me their reels of commercials they had done. After seeing one commercial after another filled with music and smooth voice overs, I did something that would often make the directors squirm…I would turn off the sound and concentrate solely on the editing and basic structure of their commercials. One can learn a lot by disengaging the senses.

I know that many here may disagree with me as to the significance of what Trump is doing. But he is not just shaking things up. I say again that he is out to seriously hurt or destroy us as a nation. Regardless of what we do. At best, he is a bully. And one should not kowtow to a bully. It only makes them worse.

 

[Good2Golf]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, you and everyone else here.

I know that many here may disagree with me as to the significance of what Trump is doing. But he is not just shaking things up. I say again that he is out to seriously hurt or destroy us as a nation. Regardless of what we do.

Personally, I’m not sure that’s the case. Is his negotiation style pretty? No, but it is transactional-style negotiation. Canada has an enormous amount of housecleaning to do to get its own affairs in order. Things like actually passing foreign influence registry, like all the other G7 nations ALREADY have, might be a positive action in improving Canada’s relationship with America.

At best, he is a bully. And one should not kowtow to a bully. It only makes them worse.

So insulting him (as Trudeau openly did shortly after the November election) is a way to deal with bullies? Some might say that’s more akin to throwing gasoline on a fire.

 

[suffolkowner]

I'd like to see a government mandate to go full on crazy in development of nuclear energy. Pocket reactors, refurbished nuclear power plants, new plant production. Im not sure what the problem is, but small local reactors should be an easy fix. The USS Nautilus, ran a nuclear power plant in 1957. Today, a Ford class carrier is capable of 170,000 kilowatts that can supply a city of hundreds of thousands. Even though they are highly inefficient for that purpose. We keep all our uranium for ourselves.

Well, one can dream I guess.

Ontarios the testing ground right now. It most cases it seems like if you are going to build a nuclear plant you might as well go full scale for the cost involved

 

[Good2Golf]

Ontarios the testing ground right now. It most cases it seems like if you are going to build a nuclear plant you might as well go full scale for the cost involved

SMRs are very reasonable balances between capacity and construction/management costs. Ontario is leading, but several provinces are participating in SMR development.

A strategic plan for the deployment of small modular reactors

Read the plan prepared by the Governments of Ontario, New Brunswick, Saskatchewan and Alberta.

www.ontario.ca

https://smrroadmap.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/BRIEF-SMR-Roadmap-Brochure-EN-2018-11-05-1.pdf?x93402

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Personally, I’m not sure that’s the case. Is his negotiation style pretty? No, but it is transactional-style negotiation. Canada has an enormous amount of housecleaning to do to get its own affairs in order. Things like actually passing foreign influence registry, like all the other G7 nations ALREADY have, might be a positive action in improving Canada’s relationship with America.

We're dealing with a guy who made a billion dollars in the cutthroat world of New York real estate. We have to learn how to negotiate with the big boys. I'd have Mr Wonderful give it a try before anyone on Team Red.

 

[Remius]

Pierre Poilievre says he would retaliate against Trump tariffs, reduce inter-province trade barriers if elected

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre says he would retaliate against U.S. tariffs if he was elected prime minister, potentially matching them dollar for dollar.

www.ctvnews.ca

So more substance from PP.

Echoing what I said about finding other sources to sell our stuff if the US is going be unreliable and is all about retaliation if needed .

Good. Strong stance in his part.

 

[Good2Golf]

Pierre Poilievre says he would retaliate against Trump tariffs, reduce inter-province trade barriers if elected

Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre says he would retaliate against U.S. tariffs if he was elected prime minister, potentially matching them dollar for dollar.

www.ctvnews.ca

So more substance from PP.

Echoing what I said about finding other sources to sell our stuff if the US is going be unreliable and is all about retaliation if needed .

Good. Strong stance in his part.

Pretty sound concepts in his message.

 

[Kirkhill]

I suspect that's one reason someone from Big Uranium is at the latest convening table assembled by Team Red Ottawa.

Interesting mix on where the US gets uranium according to the US's energy info-machine: "In 2022, 95% of the uranium purchased by U.S. nuclear power plant operators originated in other countries. Canada, which has large, high-quality uranium reserves, was the largest source of uranium purchased by U.S. nuclear power plants in 2022 at 27%. Kazakhstan was the second-largest source at 25%, followed by Russia at 12%."

Given the stats, for all of Canada's faults, there's more unstable & unreliable places to get uranium.

Then again, all of Canada's uranium comes from SK, comes from SK, who's taking a bit more of AB line (but not quite as loud, and a bit more "we want to be part of the team") on their exports. This from CBC: "... Moe said he's looking at all powers available in provincial jurisdiction to reduce any export tariff on Saskatchewan goods, should they be implemented by Ottawa ..."

Where AB's territorial about its petroleum, SK sounds like it could be just as territorial about uranium. We'll have to see how "Team Canada" they remain.

Moe is also protective of his potash.

Canada considers export tax on major commodities oil, uranium and potash if Trump imposes 25% tariff

Federal government is looking at a number of ideas, but not close to selecting which to adopt, senior government official says

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[CBH99]

Make no mistake, Trump is out to hurt Canada. He wants to break us so that we accept assimilation into the U.S. He also wants to break Panama through threats of force. And, similarly, Greenland (Denmark). This is not just about Canada and a new free trade deal. He is pushing for 5% defence spending for NATO…something that would break up the alliance.

I read your whole post, and can easily respect your position & can see how one can get there. (Quite easily, actually...)

I don't think Trump is out to get Canada. I don't think he wants us to fail as a nation, or become so broken & mismanaged that we just succumb to the idea of becoming the 51st American state.



But he was voted in with an overwhelming mandate to put America first, to grow the American economy, protect Americans' safety, and get things under control.

He openly campaigned on generating large amounts of revenue by introducing tariffs, and using that money to start paying down the national debt. And thats exactly what he is doing.

He isn't asking for much from us. Get control of our immigration, tighten up the border on our side, and do what we can to limit the amount of fentynal crossing the border from our side.

These are things we should have already been ontop of - no excuse for us to have not been, other than shitty leadership at multiple levels.


Reform our bail policies. Bring back mandatory minimum penalties.

Review what ingredients go into producing fentynal that aren't currently banned or restricted, and find ways to limit those ingredients from entering the country even further (perhaps increase inspections or detection capabilities at the ports, etc etc)

I disagree with Trump when he says we have nothing they need - thats nonsense, and I think we all know it. But if he doesn't want to have to worry about their northern border, and wants us to get back on the saddle & become a reliable security partner again, that's something we should be doing anyway.




As for Trump asking all NATO members to pay 5% of their GDP to defence, we all know that isn't going to happen. Heck Poland is modernizing it's military at a breakneck pace and it's only spending roughly 3.1%...


My 2 cents anyway

 

[MrWhyt]

He openly campaigned on generating large amounts of revenue by introducing tariffs, and using that money to start paying down the national debt. And thats exactly what he is doing.

and he still doesn't know what a tariff is.

 

[QV]

and he still doesn't know what a tariff is.

These irrelevant snipes are amusing.

He’s now #47 after the greatest come back in political history. He has fundamentally shifted the priorities of the west. He has every world organization and country waiting nervously to hear what he says or does next. This is all true whether you like him or not.