CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[ArmyRick]

There are certainly some long winded and emotionally charged posts here. Now if only those calling for economic war on the USA had put out as much energy on the CCP issues, corruption inside our country, and assault on western O&G industry.

Yup. 100%

 

[QV]

some long winded Maga before country types trying to rationalize what trump is doing revealing their true colours as well. You’ve already stated your preference to becoming annexed and pro Russia stances. Your concern about China being an issue is about as genuine as your concern for Canada QV.

You have a history of making ad hominem accusations like this anytime people point out facts you don’t like. Enjoy the ride!

 

[brihard]

There are certainly some long winded and emotionally charged posts here. Now if only those calling for economic war on the USA had put out as much energy on the CCP issues, corruption inside our country, and assault on western O&G industry.

When you have nothing of value to say on the subject, attack the people talking about it. Very definition of ad hominem, but it still leaves you with nothing of value to contribute.

Personally I’m comfortable with my posts, words, investments and actions as applicable on any of those subjects. You’re only going to have what I’ve spoken about here to work with, though, sorry.

 

[Kirkhill]

A couple of ideas

1 Join the JEF Countries (JEF is allied with Poland, Czechia and Ukraine)



Trump wants to secure the Arctic. JEF is a NATO group that aims for that same goal. And it includes Denmark and Greenland.

The UK's involvement might cause AUKUS and FivEyes some pause. The rest of the world, places like Italy, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan might also have to rethink some relations.

I leave the EU outside of JEF as an unknown factor.

2 Chase investment as per the Globe and Mail.

Globe editorial: In Trump’s tariff war, Canada must fight for investment capital

The federal Liberals are preparing a sequel to their pandemic bailout. Rather than freezing Canada’s economy in place, Ottawa should be aiming to speed its transformation

www.theglobeandmail.com

If Canada matches the U.S. measure dollar for dollar, Ottawa could see $80-billion to $100-billion in tariff revenue.

Ottawa should consider giving the provinces a portion of its windfall – but at the price of each premier signing on to an internal free-trade agreement.

Ottawa could take a bold measure that would leapfrog ahead of the Americans in the competition for capital: allow for the immediate expensing of any dollar invested in Canada. That measure would also mean scrapping the boutique exemptions that the Liberals have built up in a misguided attempt to force investment to flow to their favoured corners of the economy. Broader tax reform, focused on creating a Canadian investing advantage, should follow.

Trade conflict with an increasingly protectionist United States promises to last years. The immediate threat of a 25-per-cent tariff may dissipate quickly. But the Trump administration is still proceeding with a broader trade review that is predicated on a universal tariff of 10 per cent.

Those effects will be anything but temporary; they promise to be transformative. Ottawa should be focusing on accelerating the pace of adjustment, not freezing the economy in place with subsidies.

 

[Remius]

You have a history of making ad hominem accusations like this anytime people point out facts you don’t like. Enjoy the ride!

Your posting history supports everything I claimed. I stand by my opinion of your concern for Canada. It isn’t genuine.

 

[QV]

When you have nothing of value to say on the subject, attack the people talking about it. Very definition of ad hominem, but it still leaves you with nothing of value to contribute.

Personally I’m comfortable with my posts, words, investments and actions as applicable on any of those subjects. You’re only going to have what I’ve spoken about here to work with, though, sorry.

I’ve said plenty. I’m just enjoying some of the hysterical posts here today. If only we had this kind of emotion from you lot when Trudeau was putting in barriers to O&G exports, wrecking the CAF, courting the CCP, or any other general corruptness.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

some long winded Maga before country types trying to rationalize what trump is doing revealing their true colours as well. You’ve already stated your preference to becoming annexed and pro Russia stances. Your concern about China being an issue is about as genuine as your concern for Canada QV.

Careful, you're getting close to calling people disloyal again, solely based on their opinion.

And yours.

Sounds like you're writing trudeau's speeches, "They're all misogynist, racist, science hating, low intelligent people. Now we can add traitor to their faults."

It's not that they are defending Trump. It's simply that they are taking a world view of things and analyzing all the angles. Rather than standing on on the border in their plaid tuxedo and waving their hockey stick. Yelling 'I am Canadian.' Instead of 'Wolverines'

 

[Fabius]

If we were to make the assumption that President Trumps aim and intent of tariffs is territorial acquisition, So What?
What actions does Canada take that are fully within our control? How are they different than if President Trumps aim and intent is the US economy?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Careful, you're getting close to calling people disloyal again, solely based on their opinion.

Again ?

 

[MilEME09]

Are any of them Republicans? Politically we need to force a divide within his own party on this, break the consensus.

I believe it's all dems unfortunately for now

Stanton Leads 40+ House Democrats in Letter Calling on Trump to Immediately Rescind Tariffs on Mexico and Canada

U.S. Representative Greg Stanton today led 42 of his House Democratic colleagues in a letter to President Donald Trump, Secretary of State Marco Rubio, the acting Secretary of Commerce and Office of the U.S. Trade Representative calling on the Trump Administration to immediately rescind the...

stanton.house.gov

 

[Kirkhill]

My concern with this is that would be an exceptionally grave provocation that would credibly threaten their national interests in a way that they wouldn’t hear us out on. It’s fun to think of shutting down all energy exports and cutting off electricity on Super Bowl Sunday, or making gas more expensive for nascar races and such.

But It wouldn’t play like that. Republicans would phrase it as a ‘blockade’, would emphasize losing critical and safety-sensitive services. We don’t want them to see that as a national security vulnerability and to respond accordingly. We don’t want to put wind in the sails of actually using force. It would also have a massive cost to Canadians and would exacerbate existing divides we have. Albertans don’t want a government cheque, they want a paycheque that says ‘Cenovus’ on it. And that’s totally reasonable.

I’m all for hurting them back, but in ways that don’t provide a single evening news focal point where they can play the victim of a disproportionate ‘attack’. Add cost, pressure and friction to their economy in ways and places that will hurt Trump’s image and will hurt him politically. Coordinate with allied trading blocs on this. Amplify to Americans the cost of the “Trump tax”. Take his rhetoric about cost of living and force it back down his throat.

As I think back to every bullshit neighbour dispute file I’ve attended, at the end of all this once it simmers down we’re still gonna be neighbours. We still want the door open to barrier free interconnected trade. That’s still best for Canadians and for Americans. Start by closing the doors we can most easily reopen.

The best solution would be to make Windsor a more attractive location for manufacturing vehicles than Detroit. And I use the term vehicles with care. Don't compete for cars and trucks. Compete for heavy vehicles and specialty vehicles. For example.

Draw market share away from the US by exporting Oil and Gas and driving the international price down.

Make Canada a more attractive place for investment in our resources. We have the same land area with more resources and only 10% of the people with their hands out wanting their "mail".

Trump has to support 400 million people. Trudeau and Poilievre only have to support 40 million. We only need 10% of the tax revenue to support the same level of payments to individuals.

 

[Remius]

Careful, you're getting close to calling people disloyal again, solely based on their opinion.

I think we can agree that promoting the idea of being annexed by the US is not by definition being loyal to one’s country.

And yours.

Sounds like you're writing trudeau's speeches, "They're all misogynist, racist, science hating, low intelligent people. Now we can add traitor to their faults."

Now you are putting words that were not said.

It's not that they are defending Trump. It's simply that they are taking a world view of things and analyzing all the angles. Rather than standing on on the border in their plaid tuxedo and waving their hockey stick. Yelling 'I am Canadian.' Instead of 'Wolverines'

Except they aren’t. The only angle is Eff Trudeau and whataboutisms including the naive position that this is just about migrants and fentanyl . I have yet to see anything negative about Trump’s action from that side. At all.

Tell me, do you agree with PP’s stance on this? Or Doug Ford? Because they are saying the same thing the Feds are. In fact they seem to want to go further with dollar for dollar retaliatory tariffs. On side with that or not?

 

[ModlrMike]

I was thinking that another "law of intended consequences" is that this may push many in the rest of the world to stop buying US products primarily as a political statement. With Trump making noise about tariffs being applied to the EU, and more specifically Denmark, global public opinion may shift in a direction that is ultimately damaging to the US economy. As well, this has the potential to do direct damage to the US economy, shades of the Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act of 1930, which was intended to protect the economy, but ended up actually extending the effect of the Great Depression.

 

[Kirkhill]

I have a question
Lots of people saying fuck Trump, let's piss him off with our own tariffs. Ignore his wishes to stop fentanyl and terrorists going south from here. We can afford to live a little tighter and cheaper to make our point.
Really? How about all those people at rock bottom, living in trudeauvilles already? How about those who are just on the edge, giving up meals to buy gas for their 2-3 jobs, do they now move to the trudeauvilles? Those sites are about to suffer a big increase in residents.
It's nice to sit warm and dry in our homes, with our great job or retirement keeping us that way. A huge amount of Canadians don't have these advantages. And here is trudeau changing his emergency funding plan from 'pandemic' to 'tariff war' and is about to throw millions and millions back into the ether, where it will disappear without helping Canadians again. I'll bet we have the same companies and individuals bilking the system again. There was no repercussions for cheating last time, how many millions will go missing again.

Trudeau's plan and implementation will go the same ham fisted, irresponsible, bank breaking way his pandemic action did. All he did was dust the last solution off and change the cover page.

This is not the way out of this. Our freeloader status has been called out and our only response is to stick out our tongue and blow raspberries at America.

Trudeau loves this chaos. He's not going to fix it. Him, Carney, et al need this crisis to grow so they can keep scaring Canadians and terrorizing them to stay in line and depend on liberal solutions.

Where is the bipartisan commission? Or are we going to let the liberals drive the train without input from the opposition. Or be content to let them and the orange liberals drive it over a cliff?

Who cares how much hardship we can bring to the Americans? How it will affect them? Worry about Canadians. This is not a war. This is not spiteful. Trump is doing what he thinks best for his country and citizens, even if we think it's personal. It's a negotiation. Trump has thrown his first card, now we need to see how low he will go and to find out where our common ground is so we can grow that.

Trudeau is as useless, in this, as tits on a bull.

Our economic situation is a result of bad decisions predicated on a stable environment. We left ourselves no room for manoeuvre and wasted too much energy preening and pretending that we were valued.

Our convention hall is now surplus to requirement.

 

[Blackadder1916]

if Glenora were distilled on Islay it would be called Scotch, or so I have heard

But if Glenora was distilled on Islay, it would take on some of the typical characteristics of Islay whisky. They would use local water and probably like most of the Islay distillers would likely "peat" their malt. That would significantly change the taste. And yes, the differences in water, peat, grain, still and climate translate to differences in taste.

This past Robbie Burns Day, I took advantage of a "Burns Day Special" at a local liquor store and bought two Islays,
a Bowmore 12 Y.O.

and a Laphroaig Quarter Cask .

Differences between both, even though both distilleries are now owned by the same Scottish distiller company which is now a subsidiary of
Suntory Global Spirits (that also owns Jim Beam, et al), an American corporation which is a subsidiary of the Japanese beverage company Suntory. And while a discussion of whisky may seem to be straying from a thread about tariffs (maybe we should have a whisky thread), it is a fair example of globalization of ownership.

 

[QV]

Your posting history supports everything I claimed. I stand by my opinion of your concern for Canada. It isn’t genuine.

Your opinion is worth as much as mine or anyone else’s out there. Enjoy the show.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Our economic situation is a result of bad decisions predicated on a stable environment. We left ourselves no room for manoeuvre and wasted too much energy preening and pretending that we were valued.

Our convention hall is now surplus to requirement.

But, there is opportunity here.

Canada will have to navigate through the darkness, but if we're smart we can come out the other side stronger and more independent than we are now.

 

[Remius]

Our economic situation is a result of bad decisions predicated on a stable environment. We left ourselves no room for manoeuvre and wasted too much energy preening and pretending that we were valued.

Our convention hall is now surplus to requirement.

Absolutely which is why it is time to get away from the sole source that is the US. They are not reliable or stable in that regard, treaties be damned.

 

[IKnowNothing]

If we were to make the assumption that President Trumps aim and intent of tariffs is territorial acquisition, So What?
What actions does Canada take that are fully within our control? How are they different than if President Trumps aim and intent is the US economy?

Under both of those "why" scenarios the broadstrokes outlook is the same- longterm we need to develop a more diverse and robust economy, with more self reliance and more east- west international trade.

There's more complexity under the 3rd option- coersion to satisfy non annexation geopolitical goals. In that scenario we still need to make the shift so that we will not be so exposed in the future, but also make a concerted effort to see if there is a way to satisfy those goals without completely sacfricing our sovereignty

 

[Kirkhill]

Do you place any responsibility for what’s about to happen on Trump for violating the existing trade treaty and imposing 25% tariffs on most of our economic sectors? Or are you giving him a freebie on his tariffs but condemning ours in response?

I'll tackle this one.

I put the total responsibility on the Trump faction. Both inside and outside the US. Trump is their salesman.

Is it a good plan? Hard to say. From here it looks painful. But I think we have to accept that there is a plan and Trump and his people are working the plan.

A man, a plan, a canal. Panama!

...

I like the Globe/Tombe plan I mentioned in the editorial I attached above.

Out compete the bugger.