Canadian Military Prison

[S McKee]

Nice post Edward, certainly puts things in perspective. I joined in the early 80's, our generation pointed to the Charter as being another nail in the coffin of military discipline. Not that I'm anti-human rights or Charter, however it was another push towards the "me, my, I" culture and less "us, we, team" culture that any armed service needs to function. Plus there was the old boys club who LIKED NDHQ; career minded officers who were very good at looking out for themselves and forgot that the army is all about looking after the Cpls and Privates, not about securing the big retirement job with transport Canada. I remember my Dad telling me one time during his obligatory NDHQ stint, that the army should erect a bronze statue of a private soldier at the main entrance to NDHQ and every general should be made to kiss it's a$$ everymorning just to remind them who made them generals and who they're there for.  If our leadership did what it was suppose to back then i.e. supporting soldiers we wouldn't have had to go through the SCONDVA hearings. We're still a military of home owners etc. like you mentioned in your post, probably because overall the military demographic is little older. Hopefully with the shake-up that the new CDS has begun we'll get our priorities straightened out. I want one of those briefcases though...

 

[gnplummer421]

Speaking of Generals, what is the ratio these days? When I got out in '95, it was something ridiculous like 125 Generals for 48,000 troops, is it still this bad? And I also hope that there is a big shake up at NDHQ. I am bitter because I had to spend almost a year there (a low point in my caeer, I retired after that fiasco) that place is such a money waste IMHO.

Gnplummer

 

[GOF]

Just joined your forum.  I started in the Army in 1965, then saw the light and switched to the Air Force.  But anyway, what my post is about is:  As a young lad going through training, they scared the crap out of us...the word was Valcartier.

We were told the DB was run by the Vandoos and they hated us English speaking Air Force types.  I know it kept me on the straight and narrow.

I intend to do a lot more reading...

 

[geo]

GOF, the detention barracks are still there but not being used for long term guests.

Vandoos don't have anything against the Anglos.... but Airforce - Ewwwwww!

everything you've heard are old wives tales BTW..... things to scare Air force types when we read em a bed time story

Chimo!

 

[GOF]

Good one...the bed time story. ;D  And what is wrong with the Air Force... I think it was Churchill who coined the phrase, "Gentlemen of the Air Force." :cheers:

As I said, the stories kept a number of us on the straight and narrow, and out of trouble.

Thanks

 

[geo]

And the moral of the story is..... never let a Vandoo read you a bed time story
Chimo!

 

[Sig_Des]

hmm...I grew up with a Vandoo reading me bed time stories....one who, I recently discovered, spent a short period of time in DB at La Citadelle...I'll need to get the details on that story

 

[geo]

No DBs in LaCitadelle.....

But there's always the Guard House.

 

[FastEddy]

Just joined your forum.  I started in the Army in 1965, then saw the light and switched to the Air Force.  But anyway, what my post is about is:  As a young lad going through training, they scared the crap out of us...the word was Valcartier.

We were told the DB was run by the Vandoos and they hated us English speaking Air Force types.  I know it kept me on the straight and narrow.

I intend to do a lot more reading...

Say what you want about the RCAF, in ten years, I never arrested or charged one of their Service.

We didn't get many RCAF types at Nr. 1 FDB in Soest Germany, but the few we did were pretty good types and played the game without any problems (they were a little out of shape on the whole).

In two years we had only one RCN type which I and another Staff had to go to Dortmund to take into custody this poor Sailor being flown in from London . We had to spend the night in Dortmund and the RCN Regulating CPO Escort had not signed the SD over yet. The CPO had a Bottle of uncut Navy Grog which he said he had saved from his personal daily issue. Well later the following afternoon two Provost arrived  at Nr.1 FDB  with the SD in tow but with unimaginable headaches. This Sailor was not only in good  shape but took to the Ridgit Routine with almost a flare. He was a credit to his Service.

I wish I could say the same for the majority of the Corps that populated the facility.

 

[Guppy]

This is my first visit to this site.  I spent some time in DB back in the mid 1980s.  30 days for AWOL.  Interesting to read posts on this subject.  Bread and Water as a punishment certainly was still in effect during my stay.  Also a ridiculous ceremony involving the memorization and recital of Fire Orders just before bed.  I remember playing the game "Murder Ball" in a snow filled courtyard with fellow inmates.  Weird stuff! 

 

[PigPen]

Does anyone know if there is a video that depicts the reality of CFSPDB, from the point of view of the detainee. I am looking for this to show my students at the fleet school.

Thanks

 

[time expired]

I would just like to thank E.R.Cambell for that excellent post,sums
up the late 60,70s atmosphere so well.Charging someone in those
days could be hazardous to your career,if you in anyway were seen
to have infringed on the "human rights" of the chargee you could
be the one carrying the can.Many NCOs didn't take the chance, preferring
to get the individual at PER time.Not a good way to enforce discipline.
                                    Regards

 

[R933ex]

Does anyone know if there is a video that depicts the reality of CFSPDB, from the point of view of the detainee. I am looking for this to show my students at the fleet school.

Thanks

PigPen,

ITV out of Edmonton did a 2 part documentry at Club Ed in the late 80s, you might be able to get a copy from them. If not PM me I happen to have a copy of it.

 

[Sig_Des]

Does anyone know if there is a video that depicts the reality of CFSPDB, from the point of view of the detainee. I am looking for this to show my students at the fleet school.

Thanks

I seem to remember an old CF video about the DB...I think it was called "In the out door"

 

[1feral1]

Bread and water.

16oz of bread a day, and all the water you can drink.

I was told it was a long time since someone was on bread and water, but that was in the 80's so anything is possible, ha!

The return rate in early 80's was 3%.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Rifleman62]

We had a tour of the Edm facility during a course in '85. They had one officer in detention at that time. If I remmember correctly he was still an officer, but no rank on uniform (had to resign commission personally). Segregated from the other population. Also had females. Routine was drill and PT in the AM, and PT and drill in the PM. Bread and water was on the menu. Had to earn points to get a smokes. Stainless steel abolution facilities. The "Staff" as all the staff was addressed, said the inmates had to mark time continiously while shaving etc (possibly pulling our legs). Some of staff was infantry cbt arms.

The Sean Connery’s , 1965 movie The Hill gives a good idea of ‘the Glass House” as DB was called in the olden days - Powerful WWII film about a prison camp for errant soldiers - their suffering and degradation - in the North African desert. Connery gives an outstanding performance as an unjustly busted sergeant.

National Defence Audiovisual Database
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/avdb/default_e.asp

IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR - CANADIAN FORCES SERVICE PRISON AND DETENTION BARRACKS.


Catalogue Number:  34-0285
Production Code:  DL91057VE
Subject Matter:  SEC - Security/Sûreté
     
Year Produced:  1991
Language:  E - English
Duration:  25:18 (mmm:ss)
Details:  Colour, Video
 

Synopsis

CANADIAN FORCES SERVICE PRISON AND DETENTION BARRACKS A look at the Canadian Forces Service Prison and Detention Barracks in Edmonton. This prison program is designed to instill self-discipline in the inmates and allow them to return to their units at the end of their sentences with a "clean slate".

 

[Sig_Des]

I knew I remembered the name. Thanks for confirming that I'm not completely out to lunch, Rifleman

 

[PigPen]

Thank you for that information. I finally received the video and unfortunately I found it unsuitable to show my students. Much like many other CF videos I found it to be a little silly. That is to say it and would not have the impact I was looking for. I am still on the search. I might even encourage the Chain to have a new one produced.

We had a tour of the Edm facility during a course in '85. They had one officer in detention at that time. If I remmember correctly he was still an officer, but no rank on uniform (had to resign commission personally). Segregated from the other population. Also had females. Routine was drill and PT in the AM, and PT and drill in the PM. Bread and water was on the menu. Had to earn points to get a smokes. Stainless steel abolution facilities. The "Staff" as all the staff was addressed, said the inmates had to mark time continiously while shaving etc (possibly pulling our legs). Some of staff was infantry cbt arms.

The Sean Connery’s , 1965 movie The Hill gives a good idea of ‘the Glass House” as DB was called in the olden days - Powerful WWII film about a prison camp for errant soldiers - their suffering and degradation - in the North African desert. Connery gives an outstanding performance as an unjustly busted sergeant.

National Defence Audiovisual Database
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/avdb/default_e.asp

IN THROUGH THE OUT DOOR - CANADIAN FORCES SERVICE PRISON AND DETENTION BARRACKS.


Catalogue Number:  34-0285
Production Code:  DL91057VE
Subject Matter:  SEC - Security/Sûreté
     
Year Produced:  1991
Language:  E - English
Duration:  25:18 (mmm:ss)
Details:  Colour, Video
 

Synopsis

CANADIAN FORCES SERVICE PRISON AND DETENTION BARRACKS A look at the Canadian Forces Service Prison and Detention Barracks in Edmonton. This prison program is designed to instill self-discipline in the inmates and allow them to return to their units at the end of their sentences with a "clean slate".

 

[gnplummer421]

Rifleman,

I was there for 30 days in '83. Although Bread and Water was on the menu for anyone stuck in "the hole" (sound proof/light proof padded room) we ate like kings. How else could you do all that PT. (there was lots.) One cig after every meal unless you screwed up. No talking at any time unless you were addressing "the Eyeball" on the post by the staff office. (eye contact with DB staff was not allowed as you were too low as a detainee to address them directly) We did not mark time while shaving. We did do many station jobs at night. (IE waxing the floor by hand using a wad of wax inside a thin towel and making swirls)

Once you completed two weeks the privileges would get better, but could quickly be taken away again. Everything was driven by good behavior. If you shut your yap and followed directions, you flew under the Radar. All in all a crappy place to be. I arrived there a bit flabby, and left there in the best shape of my life. Even though I screwed up, I feel the experience made me a better person, and luckily, the Army kept me.

Gnplummer421

 

[Rifleman62]

Gnplummer,

Thanks for the info. My comments were based on a very short tour long ago, and old fading memories. Obviously having graduated from the program, and continued on successfully, the CF met it's aim. Thanks for sharing your experiences.