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Canadian modular assault rifle project, a C7 replacement?

What ammo spec are we talking here? I've seen video of 75 grain bullets travelling at 3500fps, with a pressure of 100000 psi! I would agree with @KevinB that is a substantial increase over standard NATO 556, which is generically described at 62 gr/~62000 psi. That will be punishing to barrels no matter the metallurgy...
GD has been tight lipped I've heard rumors its 72gr but nothing firm. Asked my contact and he said GD has been stone walling them.

Slightly different topic, confirmed the surpressor on both version. It is also fixed....so I have one question, where's the BFA go?
 
I have heard rumours of a “Holywood blank” that requires no BFA but is magnitudes more expensive.
 
GD has been tight lipped I've heard rumors its 72gr but nothing firm. Asked my contact and he said GD has been stone walling them.

Slightly different topic, confirmed the surpressor on both version. It is also fixed....so I have one question, where's the BFA go?
Blanks are ivo of 4EFC’s The powder cuts the throat - so in the ideal world they die.
Run a Sims bolt for any FoF

Fixed is a bit of a misnomer, as you take them off to clean the barrel, and SSI (and all other .mil suppressor companies) has a bullet trap BFA can look a like, as well as a Sims ‘can’ for FoF.

Given there is no tactical situation to realistically remove the can, having a thread on non QD rifle/carbine can isn’t a bad thing.
 
100000 PSI for a 5.56 round.....??????

Holy crap.

I had a discussion about this with the ETQMS here at TEME about ammo/ballistics/etc with the new rifles coming, and basically we both agreed that going with a shorter barrel and standard NATO spec 5.56 62 gn C77 ammo is going to be a decrease in both ballistic and terminal performance.

We left our discussion with the point that we both hoped there would be new ammo coming with the new rifles.

I did not realize this was the path we were on - I was pondering improved terminal performance ammo like the OTM MK262 stuff, this is a whole different ball of wax.

Zipping out at 3500+ FPS from an 11-ish inch barrel? That's insane pressure - but ballistically it will be a much flatter trajectory making it easier to hit point targets without worrying as much about the drop of the bullet.

Almost like we're heading towards the old SPIW flechette performance with the speed and flat trajectories they were experimenting with back in the 60s.

There is nothing new under the sun.
 
The round is called "Shell Shock", and uses basically a steel case (tungsten carbide):

This guy was getting those velocities out of an 18 inch barrel. He started to experience barrel burnout around 3500-4000 rds, and some parts breakage, but that was on a pretty standard pattern AR15. Presumably the newer barrel metallurgy and strengthened actions contemplated by Colt Canada will have addressed that issue...


Not saying this is the exact round that GD has developed, but it does show there is still lots of potential with the 5.56.
 
As pusser as that is, its not without its merit. Rifle drill looks better with bayonets IMHO.
You are assuming there will still be rifle drill going forward.

I could see them possibly going the route the Americans and some other nations have gone with having specific drill rifles (M1 Garands, Lee Enfields, etc.) for specific units/teams and everyone else just not doing it.
 
Which would be a ridiculous event considering most infantry work is up close and personal.
It is, except when it isn't?

In detail.

At CFSAC 2009, I recall speaking with a LCol who was down visiting that asked why we were shooting at anything past 300m, because doctrinally that's beyond the range of an individual shooter, and if he had a section/soldier that needed to go beyond 300, he'd have them asking for supporting fires - C-6, 25mm LAV, etc. That was actually a reasonable argument and perspective given their experience, and it shaped the change in the matches to the new ones fired at CAFSAC where there are only a small number of rounds (12) fired at 500m, instead of over 1/3 of the scoring shots.

So.

Much of that LCol's opinion was shaped on Afghanistan experience, where support and supporting fires were available.

Let us fast forward to the face of modern conflict - Ukraine. A battlespace where we have seen the front lines dominated by drones, and an effective exclusion zone for support equipment near the front. A place where a couple of soldiers in an OP are the 'front line' and their enemy is attempting to skirt around them to penetrate the front. A place where a radio and a drone is the most important tool.

In that battlespace, having a rifle, ammunition, and optic capable of reaching out to 500 meters means that a soldier who is not well supported by local fires has the ability to reach out to cover/influence/engage almost an entire grid square themselves.

Is this new rifle with HP ammo forward thinking and reaching and looking at future battlespaces?

All that said, I could be wrong and there's different reasons to adopt this ammo and rifle/optic combo.

However.

I wonder what the template difference is for the HP ammo versus standard C77 ball - will there be range template issues that arise from this?

The US encountered this with their M1 and M2 Ball ammo between WW1 and WW2.

There is nothing new under the sun.
 
You are assuming there will still be rifle drill going forward.

I could see them possibly going the route the Americans and some other nations have gone with having specific drill rifles (M1 Garands, Lee Enfields, etc.) for specific units/teams and everyone else just not doing it.

Solid point.
 
You are assuming there will still be rifle drill going forward.

I could see them possibly going the route the Americans and some other nations have gone with having specific drill rifles (M1 Garands, Lee Enfields, etc.) for specific units/teams and everyone else just not doing it.
Got you covered.

 
100000 PSI for a 5.56 round.....??????

Holy crap.

I had a discussion about this with the ETQMS here at TEME about ammo/ballistics/etc with the new rifles coming, and basically we both agreed that going with a shorter barrel and standard NATO spec 5.56 62 gn C77 ammo is going to be a decrease in both ballistic and terminal performance.

We left our discussion with the point that we both hoped there would be new ammo coming with the new rifles.

I did not realize this was the path we were on - I was pondering improved terminal performance ammo like the OTM MK262 stuff, this is a whole different ball of wax.

Zipping out at 3500+ FPS from an 11-ish inch barrel? That's insane pressure - but ballistically it will be a much flatter trajectory making it easier to hit point targets without worrying as much about the drop of the bullet.

Almost like we're heading towards the old SPIW flechette performance with the speed and flat trajectories they were experimenting with back in the 60s.

There is nothing new under the sun.
I expect the service rounds when adopted will be in the 85k to 95k Chamber Pressure range.
The 55gr AP round I shot was 4,105fps from a 11.5" barrel with HuxWrx 556K can, but that was some test stuff just loaded prior to the shoot.
The 62-63gr M855A1 projectiles were in the 3,200 FPS range - but that was 85k PSI.
So better than 20" 55gr velocities.

On the test guns, the recoil was similar to standard guns, but shooting the HiP from standard guns, well it was more like shooting a short 7.62NATO gun, you knew it.

The goal (I am on the periphery of the program) seems to want a 10k+ barrel life -- which I don't think is insurmountable, especially when using it like a rifle/carbine and not a LMG (IMHO no mag fed weapon should have auto/burst - as folks use it, squandering ammo - and prematurely fatiguing the weapons).
Fouling will be in issue - and Copper solvents will need to be used to keep the barrel from build ups that will cause dangerous pressures.
Which would be a ridiculous event considering most infantry work is up close and personal.
Yes, but consider the damage that the rounds to when hitting at these velocities.
5.56mm ammunition (for the most part) relies on impact velocity to achieve wounding as the bullet fragments when it yaws at certain velocities in tissue (generally all rifle/carbine bullets yaw/upset when impacting tissue, penetration depth before yaw depends on a number of factors and it is not worth getting sidetracked on terminal ballistics here).

That said, M855/C77 ball generally yaws and fragments at impact velocities >2,400 fps, so 120m ish for a 20" rifle, and 90m for a 14.5" carbine and 105m for a 16" Carbine -- generally inside 40m for 11.5" and shorter.
Now many other bullets will yaw and fragment at less, or use a different mechanic like "petaling" where the bullet acts similar to a hollowpoint pistol bullet and the petals of the bullet peel back to make a large wound track - and then either fragment off - or continue depending upon design and impact velocities.

The point is you can have a much shorter weapon system that is even more effective than riflers of 'yor.

Anyone who is espousing a bayonet in the last 30+ years needs a throat punch.
Various enablers added to the weapons as well as the shorter barrels (and suppressors) have made bayonet use impractical and impossible.
The idea that you can bayonet fight with a MFAL (Multi-Function Aiming Laser) and Light System on the weapon is already ludicrous - then when you add a suppressor.

Before anyone yet again brings up the Brits bayonet charge in Basra -- against a trained opponent they where dust, as the enemy would have have simply reloaded their belt fed and mowed them down as opposed to trying to run away.


So there is the possibility of a 700m capable individual weapon, that it lighter, smaller and more effective than a much larger rifle.
You may not need the 700-800m most of the time, but the capability is there - and training at range does a phenomenal job of increasing the confidence and speed of engagement in closer.
 
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