CFB Cold Lake Thread- Merged

[eliminator]

Some bedtime reading:

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/en/ombudsman-news-events-media-news/release-cold-lake.page

 

[armyvern]

Some bedtime reading:

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/en/ombudsman-news-events-media-news/release-cold-lake.page

Thanks for posting the link to the Ombudsman's report.  Alas, it is even worse there than I thought:

Military housing rents in Cold Lake are roughly double that of comparable Air Force bases in Greenwood, Nova Scotia and Bagotville, Quebec.

Military homes at CFB Cold Lake were mostly built 60 years ago.

Only 18 of 853 of military homes (Residential Housing Units) are assessed as being in good condition; 486 in fair condition; 349 in poor condition.

828 homes have warnings of possible asbestos (in vermiculite insulation) in sealed-off attics.

640 homes have ungrounded electrical outlets.

250 homes have running water throughout the winter to prevent freezingpipes.

Sigh.

 

[PuckChaser]

Asbestos is fair market value. You can resell it if you don't get cancer first....

 

[McG]

The CDS said that our pay and our pension were seen as safe things but in the time of fiscal restraint other perks could possibly be adjusted (PLD, Sea Pay, other small benefits)

Sea Pay, Land Duty Allowance, Dive Pay, Parachutist Pay, etc  all need to be looked at.  These pay bonuses for having one's name listed against a certain line in HRMS should be replaced with an enhanced variation of their casual allowance. 

I don’t advocate this as a cost saving measure.  It is about paying for the behaviour/act desired.

 

[Stoker]

Sea Pay, Land Duty Allowance, Dive Pay, Parachutist Pay, etc  all need to be looked at.  These pay bonuses for having one's name listed against a certain line in HRMS should be replaced with an enhanced variation of their casual allowance. 

I don’t advocate this as a cost saving measure.  It is about paying for the behaviour/act desired.

Are you advocating personnel be paid only the days they are in he field, at sea etc

 

[Stoker]

It seems all the benefits, or perks as someone has mentioned before that we receive are being eliminated or modified and the main reasons seems to be because the civilians don't get them. Is this jealousy on someones part and who is fighting for us to keep these benefits and saying enough is enough.

 

[McG]

Are you advocating personnel be paid only the days they are in he field, at sea etc

Yes.

(New Daily Rate) = 12 x (Current Monthly Rate)/(Average # o'Days at sea/in field per year for allowance recepients)

 

[Lightguns]

No, just a long memory.

The public doesn't really give a tinker's damn about the military, all the red t-shirts and yellow ribbons are just "feel good" fluff and nonsense. Their "support" for the troops may be a mile wide but it's less than an inch deep.

And politicians care only about what matters to the public.

Concur and heartily agree.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Maybe, if this government is a little less 'tone deaf" to bad PR than were past ones ....

Well, if THIS doesn't catch the eye of someone at "the centre" ....

.... nothing will.

Either way, methinks someone's going to get a talking to (a chat without bisquits?) about representing themselves as a member of the CAF outside work.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Well, if THIS doesn't catch the eye of someone at "the centre" ....

.... nothing will.

Either way, methinks someone's going to get a talking to (a chat without bisquits?) about representing themselves as a member of the CAF outside work.

I really don't know what can be done if his CoC wanted admin or discipline action. 

I know if I was him I would understand I just fired huge salvo at employer and have upped the ante.  If I was him I would continue to talk to the press, it's about the only thing he has.  He has to hope public compassion will keep him free from correcting measures.

Alas ERC is right... This will only last until The new news buds in.

 

[PuckChaser]

Sea Pay, Land Duty Allowance, Dive Pay, Parachutist Pay, etc  all need to be looked at.  These pay bonuses for having one's name listed against a certain line in HRMS should be replaced with an enhanced variation of their casual allowance. 

I don’t advocate this as a cost saving measure.  It is about paying for the behaviour/act desired.

And yet still doesn't help this airman make ends meet to feed his family.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Well, if THIS doesn't catch the eye of someone at "the centre" ....

.... nothing will.

Either way, methinks someone's going to get a talking to (a chat without bisquits?) about representing themselves as a member of the CAF outside work.

I would like to believe that this guy has run out of both options and hope to drive him to such a desperate and, ultimately, career destructive action.  The bean counters seem to be hell bent on making it near impossible for those who want to serve to do so.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Here's the problem: someone in NDHQ, someone important and someone who actually cares ~ say the VCDS, see this and says to the three or four striper who runs his "office," his Chief of Staff, "What the hell is gong on. Get the right people to tell me how this lad got into this mess and how we're going to help get him out."

The COS gets on with it: a few urgent memos (e-mails, now, I suppose) are fired off and a 20 minute block is cleared on the VCDS' calendar for a day a week or so from now.

Meanwhile new crises (and they all feel like real crises in the hot-house environment of the 13th floor of Fort Fumble) pop up ~ several a day ~ which demand the attention of the VCDS and his COS.

A week or so later a briefing team arrives in the VCDS' ante room ~ they are nowhere near as busy as he is and they have prepared a soothing, plausible, fact filled briefing ~ signed off by two or three two stars and an ADM or two ~ that will explain that there are systems in place, not perfect, but really quite good, and the CF member in question has some problems of his own making and he has failed to use the system properly and, anyway, there are detailed staff studies underway which will, almost certainly, come up with even better systems but NDHQ, indeed the whole Government of Canada, cannot down tools and fix one problem ... and, and. and ... nearly ad infinitum.

Just before the briefing is due to end the COS will whisper that the DM wants to see the VCDS ASP about another, even more serious problem, so the one, important question the VCDSC was about to ask ("How can we help this guy, now?") will fall by the wayside. The VCDS will, almost absent mindedly thank the briefers and will hustle down the hall to deal with the next issue.

Everyone, including the VCDS' COS will put a check mark in the boxes saying "Problem Seen," "Briefing Given," and "Problem Solved."

 

[Halifax Tar]

Here's the problem: someone in NDHQ, someone important and someone who actually cares ~ say the VCDS, see this and says to the three or four striper who runs his "office," his Chief of Staff, "What the hell is gong on. Get the right people to tell me how this lad got into this mess and how we're going to help get him out."

The COS gets on with it: a few urgent memos (e-mails, now, I suppose) are fired off and a 20 minute block is cleared on the VCDS' calendar for a day a week or so from now.

Meanwhile new crises (and they all feel like real crises in the hot-house environment of the 13th floor of Fort Fumble) pop up ~ several a day ~ which demand the attention of the VCDS and his COS.

A week or so later a briefing team arrives in the VCDS' ante room ~ they are nowhere near as busy as he is and they have prepared a soothing, plausible, fact filled briefing ~ signed off by two or three two stars and an ADM or two ~ that will explain that there are systems in place, not perfect, but really quite good, and the CF member in question has some problems of his own making and he has failed to use the system properly and, anyway, there are detailed staff studies underway which will, almost certainly, come up with even better systems but NDHQ, indeed the whole Government of Canada, cannot down tools and fix one problem ... and, and. and ... nearly ad infinitum.

Just before the briefing is due to end the COS will whisper that the DM wants to see the VCDS ASP about another, even more serious problem, so the one, important question the VCDSC was about to ask ("How can we help this guy, now?") will fall by the wayside. The VCDS will, almost absent mindedly thank the briefers and will hustle down the hall to deal with the next issue.

Everyone, including the VCDS' COS will put a check mark in the boxes saying "Problem Seen," "Briefing Given," and "Problem Solved."

So sadly your saying support for us even inside the beast is a mile wide and an inch deep.

 

[Ostrozac]

There is a fundamental issue here. PLD is supposed to be recalculated regularly. And it isn't. That isn't the fault of the airmen living in Cold Lake, or the fault of the RCAF (who would probably be quite happy to survey the cost of living on their own bases). Or even the team who are responsible for the annual recalculations of PMQ rent, who HAVE been doing their job, every year.

The recalculations are supposed to be done by the centre, in Ottawa. And, for whatever reason, that hasn't been happening.

 

[observor 69]

I have seen a call for retired AVS techs to rejoin, "the need is great and we can smooth the way in a quickened process. "
Oh and your posting, you being an AVS tech, will be to a base with a high demand for AVS techs.
So you will go from your happy urban centre life style to Cold Lake.
Any takers?

 

[Edward Campbell]

So sadly your saying support for us even inside the beast is a mile wide and an inch deep.

No, but the "beast" is huge, and lumbering and, too often, lacks direction and focus.

I believe - I really do believe - that most senior leaders and managers (bureaucrats) DO CARE, but there are too many problems, and many of them are perception problems, things that are rather like the military/bureaucratic equivalent of "First World Problems" and the real problems get pushed aside.

I know it's off topic, but ... fewer HQs and fewer flag and general officers, and fewer senior executives (military and civilian), would actually help. Less can be and do more when it forces one to focus on what actually matters.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Here's the problem: someone in NDHQ, someone important and someone who actually cares ~ say the VCDS, see this and says to the three or four striper who runs his "office," his Chief of Staff, "What the hell is gong on. Get the right people to tell me how this lad got into this mess and how we're going to help get him out."

The COS gets on with it: a few urgent memos (e-mails, now, I suppose) are fired off and a 20 minute block is cleared on the VCDS' calendar for a day a week or so from now.

Meanwhile new crises (and they all feel like real crises in the hot-house environment of the 13th floor of Fort Fumble) pop up ~ several a day ~ which demand the attention of the VCDS and his COS.

A week or so later a briefing team arrives in the VCDS' ante room ~ they are nowhere near as busy as he is and they have prepared a soothing, plausible, fact filled briefing ~ signed off by two or three two stars and an ADM or two ~ that will explain that there are systems in place, not perfect, but really quite good, and the CF member in question has some problems of his own making and he has failed to use the system properly and, anyway, there are detailed staff studies underway which will, almost certainly, come up with even better systems but NDHQ, indeed the whole Government of Canada, cannot down tools and fix one problem ... and, and. and ... nearly ad infinitum.

Just before the briefing is due to end the COS will whisper that the DM wants to see the VCDS ASP about another, even more serious problem, so the one, important question the VCDSC was about to ask ("How can we help this guy, now?") will fall by the wayside. The VCDS will, almost absent mindedly thank the briefers and will hustle down the hall to deal with the next issue.

Everyone, including the VCDS' COS will put a check mark in the boxes saying "Problem Seen," "Briefing Given," and "Problem Solved."

Outstanding portrayal of how the lumbering beast of government (not just those in uniform - just change the job titles) works  - problem seen (not necessarily specifically identified) + action taken =/= problem solved.

If there's political will, though, something can happen.  Sadly, like you've said elsewhere, the political will has to be there in the first place.

 

[mariomike]

Well, if THIS doesn't catch the eye of someone at "the centre" ....

.... nothing will.

Either way, methinks someone's going to get a talking to (a chat without bisquits?) about representing themselves as a member of the CAF outside work.

Reminds me of the photo years ago of the Metro Police officer sitting cross-legged on the sidewalk - in full uniform - holding a tin cup in his outstretched hand, with a placard around his neck that read, “Please Give Generously.”

 

[Quirky]

A 1000 square foot 3 bedroom military PMQ that costs $327.00 bucks a month to heat to 17 degrees

I don't even pay half that in the coldest months, something is seriously wrong with that Q if heating costs are that high. Either way, yes heating and overall PMQ costs are atrocious and the overall situation on base is affecting operation capability. But who cares this is the norm for Canada right?  :