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CFB Cold Lake Thread- Merged

George Wallace

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ObedientiaZelum said:
I find it pretty telling that twice as many people choose to leave the CF when getting posted to Cold Lake than anywhere else. Many who probably didn't even blink when getting sent to war.

For the most part, you are looking at a different 'demographic' of CAF member.

I know members who have been posted to Cold Lake and loved it up there, and even retired in that location.  Just like any other CFB or Establishment, it is what you make of it.  You will find people who will complain about being posted to Gagetown, Bagotville, Shilo, Wainwright, etc.  This is nothing new.  I heard of large numbers of RCR taking their Release, rather than being posted to Petawawa from London.  I doubt Cold Lake has any larger statistics than any other Base for disgruntled people not wanting to be posted there.
 

Kat Stevens

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ArmyVern said:
I can assure you that if my 50K salary, 1/2 that of the average wage in Cold Lake, was going to twice towards bettering my family's QOL if I were posted to another location because PLD is not being dealt with --- I'd pray for a posting out too!!  You seriously going to say that you wouldn't be doing so as well??

Why exactly do you think that people are releasing to get out of there and to avoid going there??  All your comment does is exactly highlight the problem in Cold Lake.  It isn't about this one individual as you are making it out to be --- he is merely the face (the published-martyred face??) of hundreds of others posted there today.

At least this kid went and, apparently the fact that he did is biting his family directly in their asses; kudos to him.

Exactly.  Everyone here bangs on about having the courage of your convictions, and eating your own shit.  Well this kid threw himself on his bayonet and did it.
 

Quirky

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ObedientiaZelum said:
I find it pretty telling that twice as many people choose to leave the CF when getting posted to Cold Lake than anywhere else.

IIRC when the RCAF CAS was here last summer he addressed the situation as "we'll just recruit more people" and "if you want to release then leave". When you hear something like that from your boss it doesn't exactly boost moral from the base.  ::)
 

armyvern

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dapaterson said:
...  Not starvation wages, and his rent in the Qs is limited to 25% - but may be less, as the condition of the Q is factored into the rent charged.

quite correct.  But, the difference between that 33% "fair market value rent" and the 25% he is actually being charged for his shitty PMQ  is then also included on his T4s as "taxable allowances".  Don't forget that bit; it's pretty important too.
 

Halifax Tar

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Quirky said:
IIRC when the RCAF CAS was here last summer he addressed the situation as "we'll just recruit more people" and "if you want to release then leave". When you hear something like that from your boss it doesn't exactly boost moral from the base.  ::)

Especially in an area where you can possibly get a better paying job. 
 
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smale436

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Quirky said:
IIRC when the RCAF CAS was here last summer he addressed the situation as "we'll just recruit more people" and "if you want to release then leave". When you hear something like that from your boss it doesn't exactly boost moral from the base.  ::)

Similar to how one MWO said "if you don't like it, vote with your feet and get out." Well newsflash buddy. People are doing exactly that and I have not met a single one who has released in the last year or two who has regretted that decision. Regardless of whether they had 3 or 23 years of service. In fact, most of them stay in the Cold Lake area. There is only so much "suck it up" people are willing to take before saying "F this."

And as far as recruiting more people, that will likely be easier said than done when a lot of the people just put in their release in Borden after hearing they've been posted to CL or a few month after arriving here. In my trade, I can't think of anyone at the sqn actively working on the line who has more than 8 years on the aircraft in terms of snag/servicing time. Lots of guys with lab and other fleet experience, but otherwise we are hurting.
 

George Wallace

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Quirky said:
IIRC when the RCAF CAS was here last summer he addressed the situation as "we'll just recruit more people" and "if you want to release then leave". When you hear something like that from your boss it doesn't exactly boost moral from the base.  ::)

No it doesn't boost your moral, nor does it earn that leader any respect from his subordinates.  It is a sign of poor leadership that one should not try to emulate.  [Side Track] That type of comment flows right into another of our topics here: Army Takes On Its Own Toxic Leaders  

It does nothing to honestly address or rectify the housing problem.
 

Tibbson

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Quirky said:
IIRC when the RCAF CAS was here last summer he addressed the situation as "we'll just recruit more people" and "if you want to release then leave". When you hear something like that from your boss it doesn't exactly boost moral from the base.  ::)

That thinking has been a topic of conversation at my workplace before.  A Pte/Cpl gets ticked and wants to leave then the CAF needs to spend the time and money to recruit a new one and then pay to train him/her so they do what they can to keep them happy and keep them in the CAF.  At the same time, a WO gets ticked the first thing he/she hears is "get out then if you don't like it".  Why?  Because they can just promote a Sgt into the vacancy and pick up the slack over time. 
 

Strike

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ArmyVern said:
Why exactly do you think that people are releasing to get out of there and to avoid going there??

A lot of it has to do with what their friends are saying and not based on any personal experience whatsoever.  I have yet to meet anyone who has refused to move to Cold Lake.  Sure, I've heard the horror stories about the cost of buying a house and the state of the Qs (which EVERY base is dealing with), but what happens to a government worker (RCMP or Federal Gov for example) that is sent to work in that area?  Do they get any type of dispensation beyond what CAF members get?  I'm not hearing complaints on that end.  Not being confrontational, I really want to know how other federal agencies fare.
 

Halifax Tar

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Strike said:
A lot of it has to do with what their friends are saying and not based on any personal experience whatsoever.  I have yet to meet anyone who has refused to move to Cold Lake.  Sure, I've heard the horror stories about the cost of buying a house and the state of the Qs (which EVERY base is dealing with), but what happens to a government worker (RCMP or Federal Gov for example) that is sent to work in that area?  Do they get any type of dispensation beyond what CAF members get?  I'm not hearing complaints on that end.  Not being confrontational, I really want to know how other federal agencies fare.

RCMP pay rates: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/recruiting-recrutement/rm-mr/rates-taux-eng.htm#fnb6

Looks like their basic pay is equal to our 4 year Cpl and goes up to 82k.  That's for Constable. 

PS pay rate index.  You will have to be more specific as to which branch you'd like to investigate.
http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/coll_agre/rates-taux-eng.asp

 

Alberta Bound

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You also have to consider that although RCMP Members don't get PLD (except a deal through the Municipality in Ft MacMurray) there is Shift differential and of course overtime on top of the base pay.

Also you don't get ordered to a posting very often except upon graduation from Depot.

Staffing has a lot of influence over the choices they give you. But not often is it just one choice. It may be Ft Mac, Grande Prairie, Cold Lake, Andrew, Tofield. But you get options.
 

Strike

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Alberta Bound said:
You also have to consider that although RCMP Members don't get PLD (except a deal through the Municipality in Ft MacMurray) there is Shift differential and of course overtime on top of the base pay.

But I bet ya they're told not to plan their finances on their O/T.  ;)
 

Halifax Tar

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Strike said:
But I bet ya they're told not to plan their finances on their O/T.  ;)

That is what you take out of the previous two replies to your post ?  Not being confrontational towards you but your grasping at straws with that reply.  Especially coming from a Capt who has 10 possible IPCs.
 

Strike

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Halifax Tar said:
That is what you take out of the previous two replies to your post ?  Not being confrontational towards you but your grasping at straws with that reply.  Especially coming from a Capt who has 10 possible IPCs.

The post was meant to be tongue in cheek.  Hence the winkie.  ::)
 

PPCLI Guy

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Alberta Bound said:
You also have to consider that although RCMP Members don't get PLD (except a deal through the Municipality in Ft MacMurray) there is Shift differential and of course overtime on top of the base pay.

Also you don't get ordered to a posting very often except upon graduation from Depot.

Staffing has a lot of influence over the choices they give you. But not often is it just one choice. It may be Ft Mac, Grande Prairie, Cold Lake, Andrew, Tofield. But you get options.

And?

We are talking about people who chose to be in the military, not the RCMP.

Again, the taxpayers pay us well, and we need to get over ourselves.
 

mariomike

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George Wallace said:
I know members who have been posted to Cold Lake and loved it up there, and even retired in that location. 

That's what my sister will do when she retires.
 

Strike

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PPCLI Guy said:
And?

We are talking about people who chose to be in the military, not the RCMP.

Again, the taxpayers pay us well, and we need to get over ourselves.

Seen.  I was trying to find a comparable career (For example, some Federal departments do move their people from time to time.  My own moved 4 times in 6 years, although not sure if this is as common nowadays).  The point being that you don't see these people who are forced to move by their employers having the same issues...or maybe they do but we don't hear about it.  Who knows.

I agree re: the last point as well.  A former course mate of mine was a 2Lt for an extended period (through no fault of his own) on a single income with a child and had student debts from achieving several degrees.  His family lives a frugal happy life and they are now debt free.

It is possible.  It just takes time, patience and lots of planning.
 

Jungle

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I visited Cold Lake for a few days recently, and I noticed a lot of shiny new pick up trucks, snowmobiles, ATVs, fishing boats... sometimes all in the same PMQ driveway.
 

Haggis

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And it appears - at least in this article shared with the usual caveats - that the chain of command is stepping in to address the member's actions.
 
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