Component Transfer ( CT ) - Reserve to Regular

[geo]

.... which is why I say that they could parachute you in to your new unit in an interrim rank at an interrim IPC until the paperwork can be straightened out.

 

[CountDC]

While there will always be bureaucracy to ensure that the "T's" are crossed and the "I's" are dotted, who says the individual has to remain at his former unit while all this is happening?

If the person passes a medical, you give him an interrim rank (if necessary) and you cut him a class B or C contract for a Reg force Battalion or Regiment where he is needed.  If the person has served in Kandahar then his CT should be at his effective rank anyway.... so what's the problem ???

Lets see - problems

  Class B and C are both reserve not Reg F and we are dealing with Componet transfers. They also both require the member to hold reserve positions which means you either now have to create a paper unit with positions for these mbrs or they will continue to tie up posns at the reserve unit they already belong to. Units do not like to have their posns tied up for someone not training with them so that is out.  Creating the paper unit with posns means you will have to take posns from units which again will not make any of them happy. Other option is to change the unit to a mixed unit with both reg and res posns which creates the other problem of do you increase the overall unit strength(stealing again from other units) or decrease the reg f strength to create the res posns(which would still have to come from somewhere) and takes a long time to do.

Not everyone has served at Kandahar, not everyone has been returned with a good report.  What if mbr is a MCpl but was not employed as one in Kandahar as they were not considered good enough for the job.  These things have to be checked. Don't know if this has happened there but I do know it happened years ago (early 90's) in Africa that a MCpl was removed from their posn, replaced with another on the ground and treated as a Cpl. Also have to consider that they may have been in Kandahar as a Pte and now several years later are a MCpl - which rank do we take him/her in under?

Interim ranks is another nightmare we do not need. If you can determine such a thing then you should be able to determine their actual rank - unless you want to bring everyone in as a pte to start.  That would be fun - today pte, tomorrow sgt but oops we don't have a sgt posn open so we will have to release you until one comes free. Sorry about that, guess we should have checked it all first.

Nor does this address the issue of what to do with the mbr as you still do not know what course credits the mbr is to be given.  I can see the RSMs/Adjts/COs (or navy equiv) going crazy now. They would have to treat them as new recruits until the paperwork catchs up and that is not what anyone needs at this point.

The system is not perfect but better to have most of the T's crossed and I's dotted before hand rather than after. Perhaps part of the solution is to increase the staff handling CT's, doing a pre screening of files so that the ones that appear to be straight forward are streamlined through one cell while the others go to another cell. By straight forward I mean such cases as mentioned earlier by someone - Pte/Cpl infantry going infantry. There is always a need, shouldn't take long to calculate the course credits, rank and IPC. Such a person should be in the unit within a month.

The T's and I's that should not tie this up is the reserve unit not processing the paperwork in a timely manner to release the member (still can't believe they are doing that), clearing unit stores (mbr can make arrangements - someone else return the stuff, leave with OR Staff with signed list, return later or debit pay are some), debit balance on mbrs reserve pay (can be recovered off his reg f pay), unit outclearance because CO/RSM/whoever is not available for the next month or 2 to sign as it is summer time. When I was clearing them out and no one else was available I just took the card, indicated they were not available and told the mbr to enjoy their new career - never had a problem after the first time (well sir I guess someone should have been here to make the command decision besides the OR Supvr).

 

[kincanucks]

Popnfresh, as I understand it, the magic amount of Class B service is used to determine your IPC, within a certain rank, not your training requirements.

Actually, a Res F member who is CTing, usually just enroled Ptes and not Cpls, requires a certain amount of Cl B days to bypass Reg F BMQ.

 

[geo]

Lets see - problems

  Class B and C are both reserve not Reg F and we are dealing with Componet transfers. They also both require the member to hold reserve positions which means you either now have to create a paper unit with positions for these mbrs or they will continue to tie up posns at the reserve unit they already belong to. Units do not like to have their posns tied up for someone not training with them so that is out.  Creating the paper unit with posns means you will have to take posns from units which again will not make any of them happy. Other option is to change the unit to a mixed unit with both reg and res posns which creates the other problem of do you increase the overall unit strength(stealing again from other units) or decrease the reg f strength to create the res posns(which would still have to come from somewhere) and takes a long time to do.

If the gent is cooling his heels in his reserve unit, he would be occupying the very same position anyway - not an issue.  No paper unit need be created

Not everyone has served at Kandahar, not everyone has been returned with a good report.  What if mbr is a MCpl but was not employed as one in Kandahar as they were not considered good enough for the job.  These things have to be checked. Don't know if this has happened there but I do know it happened years ago (early 90's) in Africa that a MCpl was removed from their posn, replaced with another on the ground and treated as a Cpl. Also have to consider that they may have been in Kandahar as a Pte and now several years later are a MCpl - which rank do we take him/her in under?

At this very minute - the offer of a CT to the same rank applies only to people who have served in KAF theatre... nothing about FRY or anywhere else.
As this option is so very recent - your commendary does not apply.  Lead up training prior to deployment is something like 1 year now - by the time you go, you're either good to go OR you don't go.  If you got the lousy appraisal then the CT can be stopped or the rank reduced to the level of his competence while he is still ebing employed as a Reservist attached posted.

Interim ranks is another nightmare we do not need. If you can determine such a thing then you should be able to determine their actual rank - unless you want to bring everyone in as a pte to start.  That would be fun - today pte, tomorrow sgt but oops we don't have a sgt posn open so we will have to release you until one comes free. Sorry about that, guess we should have checked it all first.

Interim ranks are NOT a nightmare - people make it a nightmare.
Reserve rank & trade courses are not created equal - most of the time.
If the fella is a reserve Sgt or MCpl he will see nothing strange about being  brought in as a Cpl till his pedigree is checked.

Nor does this address the issue of what to do with the mbr as you still do not know what course credits the mbr is to be given.  I can see the RSMs/Adjts/COs (or navy equiv) going crazy now. They would have to treat them as new recruits until the paperwork catchs up and that is not what anyone needs at this point.

Unit COs and RSMs are constantly dealing with reservists arriving for TF training & attachment.  There is no need to "go crazy".  Load em into a Troop or Platoon with an experienced 2IC to evaluate & you are good to go.
You are making too much of this.

The system is not perfect but better to have most of the T's crossed and I's dotted before hand rather than after. Perhaps part of the solution is to increase the staff handling CT's, doing a pre screening of files so that the ones that appear to be straight forward are streamlined through one cell while the others go to another cell. By straight forward I mean such cases as mentioned earlier by someone - Pte/Cpl infantry going infantry. There is always a need, shouldn't take long to calculate the course credits, rank and IPC. Such a person should be in the unit within a month.

increasing bureaucracy ???  yeah right

The T's and I's that should not tie this up is the reserve unit not processing the paperwork in a timely manner to release the member (still can't believe they are doing that), clearing unit stores (mbr can make arrangements - someone else return the stuff, leave with OR Staff with signed list, return later or debit pay are some), debit balance on mbrs reserve pay (can be recovered off his reg f pay), unit outclearance because CO/RSM/whoever is not available for the next month or 2 to sign as it is summer time. When I was clearing them out and no one else was available I just took the card, indicated they were not available and told the mbr to enjoy their new career - never had a problem after the first time (well sir I guess someone should have been here to make the command decision besides the OR Supvr).

Outgoing clearances can be done quickly and without much fuss.
Takes no longer than doing your 2050 prior to deployment.

 

[RHFC_piper]

No matter the problems inherent in the current system, it is still much better than what was there before;  It is much more streamlined, much more efficient and definitely a step in the right direction.  I don't think the system can get as simple as we would all like it without stepping on the toes of the people who have to do all the T crossing and I dotting.  You can't please everybody, but, in this case, I believe they've found a fairly happy medium...  Besides, if they pushed it too much, people could start getting lost in the paper shuffle.

It would be nice if things worked as smoothly as they sounded on paper. But, not everyone is a "text book" transfer case; this system really runs case by case and that takes time.

Either way, this new directive is a huge step in the right direction...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Having been a mbr who did the CT/OT process myself in the past 2 years, I would like to wade in here for a second, though not as a SME for the T's & I's discussion.

1.  The CTing mbr should realize that he/she is an integral part of the process.  They should take steps to ensure paperwork is up to date and complete when they start this process.  This can include ensuring their UERs, MPRRs, MITE records, course reports, 10-07's, etc are complete and not missing data.  The people who make all these decisions only have the file in front of them to make their job easier, and your CT smoother.  This also includes taking measures to verify your actually kit holdings with your SQ/CQ, clothing stores, etc against what you have signed for.  If you suddenly are clearing out and can't find a piece of kit, who's fault is that?  All these little snags SHOULD be eliminated as early in the process as possible.  Educational transcripts, whatever the case may be, should all be in order before you walk into the CFRC, IMHO.  You can probably even get your EXPRES/BFT out of the way, whatever you can do, do it. 

2.  Mbr's who are CTing and OTing at the same time should expect this to take more time!  Period!  In my case, I was a blackhatter with SLC and DP3B/6B.  I would have expected a fairly quick PLAR had I of just CTd, but I thru an OT in with mine.  That means more work, more hands that have to touch my file.  I expected it.  So should you. 

3.  Remember, also, that most PRes units operate with what I will call 'minimal manning' in their ORs and because of the nature of Class B emloyment, sometimes there are empty chairs with keyboards in front of them because of no-fills, taskings, and a bunch of other compounding factors.  The unit still has to conduct business and the reality is that you may not always be the highest priority. 

WRT to the issue of releasing from the Reserves, it doesn't make much sense to me, but I do know part of that is the procedure to tombstone your IRPS pay account and open you CCPS one.  The PRes and Reg Force 'admin systems' in their completeness are not mirror images; if they were, we could just 'cut and paste' and mbr's "CF Profile" from one org to another.  That is not the case now, atleast not 100%.

While its always important to look for ways to improve, I have to echo RHFC_Pipers comments that 'things are certainly better now than they were".

 

[30 for 30]

What about CTs from Reg to Res? How smooth is this process?

 

[geo]

What about CTs from Reg to Res? How smooth is this process?

Seeing a lot of regs do that....
Works fine

 

[RHFC_piper]

There can be the same kind of confusion when it comes to Reg F to PRes... But much like the PRes to Reg F system; it really does come down to a 'case-by-case' basis.

The biggest issue I've seen with the Reg F to PRes CT is the confusion about who should be conducting all the admin; the PRes unit or the Reg F unit.  This is clearly defined by DAOD 5002-3 and the CMP instructions for CT;

Your Regular Force release section in responsible for all the admin for your CT to the PRes and release from the Reg F.
The gaining unit will supply the Position Number, but that's about it.  And to obtain the position number, you have to contact the unit and arrange a meeting; RSM for NCMs, CO/DCO for Officers.  Unless one of those people give you the thumbs up, the CC of the PRes unit will (should) not provide the Release section with a position number.

This may seem like common sense for a lot of people, but you'd be surprised by the number of Reg F members who contact unit recruiting daily for initiate a CT... Then I have to tell them the process above.  There's nothing wrong with contacting the gaining unit (via unit Recruiting) first, just for unit info, but you'll have to contact the unit Adj or OR for an appointment.

As I've said, this system can get equally muddled.  My unit has 3 Reg F members trying to CT to us, and have been for the last year...  the down side is that they are now caught between the Old and New systems.  Hopefully they'll be good to go by September, but who knows.

On the good side of things; Reg F members CTing in to PRes units (of like trades) tend to get a lot of respect and opportunities (or at least they should) as they generally have a lot of good experience.  And we're always looking for experienced leadership.

 

[CountDC]

If the gent is cooling his heels in his reserve unit, he would be occupying the very same position anyway - not an issue.  No paper unit need be created

it is an issue in that you are taking the member from the reserve unit to the reg f unit - the reserve CO's generally do not want their establishment tied up with people they can not employ.

At this very minute - the offer of a CT to the same rank applies only to people who have served in KAF theatre... nothing about FRY or anywhere else.

Really - guess I better tell my friend to take her leaf off then.

As this option is so very recent - your commendary does not apply.   Lead up training prior to deployment is something like 1 year now - by the time you go, you're either good to go OR you don't go.  If you got the lousy appraisal then the CT can be stopped or the rank reduced to the level of his competence while he is still ebing employed as a Reservist attached posted.

Now that is too funny - 1 year training - maybe if you are an infanteer sitting in a unit doing training all year.  The people I work with get a few weeks in Kingston and off you go. As for reducing rank - remember you have already sent him off to the unit as a MCpl, the RSM has employed him as such and now you are saying oops we made a mistake - your only a Cpl.  That works wonders for everyone involved.

Interim ranks are NOT a nightmare - people make it a nightmare.
Reserve rank & trade courses are not created equal - most of the time.
If the fella is a reserve Sgt or MCpl he will see nothing strange about being  brought in as a Cpl till his pedigree is checked.

Interim ranks are not a nightmare - to people that don't have to clean up all the mess and answer all the questions.
May not see a problem of brought in a Cpl but they will see a problem when you tell them they are supposed to be a Master or Sgt and you don't have a position available.

Unit COs and RSMs are constantly dealing with reservists arriving for TF training & attachment.  There is no need to "go crazy".  Load em into a Troop or Platoon with an experienced 2IC to evaluate & you are good to go.
You are making too much of this.

As they are already dealing with reservists for TF training why add to their problems by adding a bunch of people they have no idea on what rank or course quals they will be granted.

increasing bureaucracy ???   yeah right

?? never said to increase bureaucracy - said increase manpower and streamline the process internally. Sgt recieves file, opens, see Bdr wanting to CT to Reg F Arty - easy case box. See Bdr wanting to CT NWT - difficult case box. This would in turn speed up the process for everyone.

Outgoing clearances can be done quickly and without much fuss.
Takes no longer than doing your 2050 prior to deployment.

Can but as many can testify often are not done quickly because Joe Blow is not available to sign the magic card. As others have already stated during the summer their units go to min manning without such people as supply available. In one unit I worked most of the time I was the only one available at best of times.

Increase the staff, streamline the easy cases and people can wait the one month it should take to process them. Anyone that has a difficult CT should fully expect to take longer anyway. No reason that an infanteer cpl should have to wait longer than a month to CT to infantry - pte/cpl is not that difficult. Now if he wants to become another trade it will naturally take longer as he has to be assessed to see if he is suitable.

 

[robint76]

I am in the reserves, and I have recently accepted an offer for a component transfer to Reg. Force.  I am currently just waiting for all the final documentation to go through, before I head to Borden for my QL3 the first week of Sept for my MOC training.  I have a couple of questions, but I seem to be having difficulty getting them answered.  I know there is a wealth of knowledge out there, so maybe someone can shed some light for me.  I know that I will eventually get my questions answered, but probably not till I receive my transfer letter a week prior to me leaving for Borden.  And I like to plan ahead when I can.  Especially when I have family and responsibilities to take care of.   

1.  I am planning on driving to Borden (about a 23 hr drive), as that is where I'm from.  Does anyone know whether or not I would be able to receive an advance on my travel expenses (CT) to Borden (IE. gas, lodging)?  Just want to know, so I can plan my expenses, as I am aware that sometimes getting my first pay after a CT is not always immediate.

2. I have just recently signed my release from the reserves, and returned my kit to my unit, as I'm going from Army to Airforce.  Does anyone know once all my paperwork is received, if I should be receiving new kit prior to leaving for Borden?

I'm sure I have more questions.  I'll just have to ask them when I think of them.

Thanks a bunch  ;D 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I am in the reserves, and I have recently accepted an offer for a component transfer to Reg. Force.  I am currently just waiting for all the final documentation to go through, before I head to Borden for my QL3 the first week of Sept for my MOC training.  I have a couple of questions, but I seem to be having difficulty getting them answered.  I know there is a wealth of knowledge out there, so maybe someone can shed some light for me.  I know that I will eventually get my questions answered, but probably not till I receive my transfer letter a week prior to me leaving for Borden.  And I like to plan ahead when I can.  Especially when I have family and responsibilities to take care of.   

1.  I am planning on driving to Borden (about a 23 hr drive), as that is where I'm from.  Does anyone know whether or not I would be able to receive an advance on my travel expenses (CT) to Borden (IE. gas, lodging)?  Just want to know, so I can plan my expenses, as I am aware that sometimes getting my first pay after a CT is not always immediate.

2. I have just recently signed my release from the reserves, and returned my kit to my unit, as I'm going from Army to Airforce.  Does anyone know once all my paperwork is received, if I should be receiving new kit prior to leaving for Borden?

I'm sure I have more questions.  I'll just have to ask them when I think of them.

Thanks a bunch  ;D 

Once you get an offer message and accept it, your CFRC should be able to start your claim and get you an advance on it.  Re: the issue of kitting you out, your CFRC should be able to answer that as well but as I guess, you should be able to get a basic kitting out prior to RFD at 16 Wing Borden.  If not, you will have to ask your CFRC at the time of 'transfer'/acceptance the issue about your kit, as I am sure if you are showing up for your 3s, they will expect that you already have the basic kit and will only require MOC specific top-up.

 

[aesop081]

Travel day to course is one day.......therefore if you chose to drive there you will have to tell them that and ( as happenned to me several times) you will only be covered financialy up to the cost of the ticket on an airline. You will not get money for lodging.

 

[AlphaQup]

Hey guys, I've searched the forum for this specific question but didn't find anything. My question is this:

The posts I came across suggested it would be a good idea to join the reserves to see whether or not you'd enjoy military life. So I'm wondering if I do join the reserves(hoping to get the process started in January 2009 so I can head off to summer BMQ after the spring semester of school is over) will I be able to apply to ROTP the following year or would I have to remuster(I doubt this is the correct word, maybe 'release' is more appropriate) from the reserves before I can apply for ROTP?

I hope this made sense, if not please let me know. Thanks!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If you are in the PRes, you can apply for ROTP.  If accepted, you would then do what is called a Component Transfer, tranferring between the Primary Reserve and Regular Force components of the CF.

 

[robint76]

Eye In The Sky:  I received a written offer and have already accepted it.  Now I just seem to be in limbo with no clarification on anything, with my TOS being 4 weeks away.  Can I go to my local CFRC and inquire about travel claim, kit etc. without getting myself in trouble, seeing as I'm not going to my reserve unit.  Seeing as I've asked my reserve unit, and they haven't had too many answers for me.

Thanks

Once you get an offer message and accept it, your CFRC should be able to start your claim and get you an advance on it.  Re: the issue of kitting you out, your CFRC should be able to answer that as well but as I guess, you should be able to get a basic kitting out prior to RFD at 16 Wing Borden.  If not, you will have to ask your CFRC at the time of 'transfer'/acceptance the issue about your kit, as I am sure if you are showing up for your 3s, they will expect that you already have the basic kit and will only require MOC specific top-up.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Well, from when I did my CT (1.5 years ago), the CFRC did all my "reg force" admin, not the PRes unit.  PRes unit was responsible for my PRes out clearance and release, CFRC was the gaining unit so they handled all my Reg Frce admin, including travel to unit I was posted to, claims, etc etc.  Because they deal with it so often, they had a solid grasp of what the process was.

Your PRes unit is the 'loosing unit' and their responsibility to make sure you are properly cleared out/'released' from the PRes, and the CFRC did my admin/co-ord for my Reg Force requirements (admin, kit, etc).  I made a list of questions 2 weeks ahead of my CT date, sent them to my File Manager at the CFRC, so she had enough time to deal with those items, which she emailed me back in 2 days with my instructions/answers.  So, I would definitely ask the questions to the CFRC, BUT I recommend you make a detailed list of questions you have, put them in a clear, concise logical format, and give them to the CFRC and not expect answers back in 5 minutes as they are usually busy people.  Give them the time they need to look after you, and they will.  Be professional with them and you won't have people shutting doors in your face.

The day I signed my CT, I was well looked after and it was simply a matter of confirming the info previously given to me (confirmatory orders sort of thing).  I had already been kitted out the week of my CT (I signed on a Friday) and had turned in the applic kit I was required to.  I gave them lead time to address my question, then did what I could to make it easy for them as well. 

So yes, ask the CFRC, your File Manager, your questions but do it in a professional manner;  make a list, as complete as you can, of questions.  Give them time to reply.  Once they do, do your part to make it happen. 

Your CT offer should have the info on your CT date, report date, etc etc on it, mine did.  Read it again and see if some of the info you are looking for isn't in it, and then contact your File Mgr. 

 

[AlphaQup]

If you are in the PRes, you can apply for ROTP.  If accepted, you would then do what is called a Component Transfer, tranferring between the Primary Reserve and Regular Force components of the CF.

Thanks Eye, I appreciate it.

Can you tell me what your experience in PRes was like? Did you attend while going to school? How did you prepare for the physical which is done at the CFRC instead of BMQ. Was it difficult to balance it? A classmate of mine is in the Reserves and he seems to balance it quite well. Any other info would be appreciated.

 

[Deleted member 9665]

AlphaQup PM inbound

 

[bran]

Hey everyone,

I've searched the forum for my question but haven't been able to find anything relating to it so I'm hoping that someone could help me out. When doing a component transfer from primary reserves to regular force how is the regiment/battalion that you will transfer to determined? i.e if I was transferring from 4RCR would I have to stay with one of the battalions from RCR or would I be able to switch to PPCLI?

Thanks in advance