Confusion on CCG protocol

[CougarKing]

As the stripes are not "earned" I doubt they are aware of protocol, a lot of fumbling and unsureness would result. I remember sitting in the can listening to 2 members of my senior management, both wearing uniforms with a "fantasy rank" which was supposed to represent their postion in management. Only one had any time at sea and not for very long and left for wrong reasons at that, the other was well....

Anyways the 2 of them wearing squealing like two kids with new toys and blathering on about how good it looks and how the USCG will respect them now, blah,blah. I flushed and stepped out of the stall, gave them the look and walked out, they both looked like,they had been caught choking their chickens.  :

Colin,

So how did these two CCG senior managers/directors get to their positions if both of them had little or no sea time? Did they just get an MBA or something? Well, after all it does say on Wikipedia that the CCG is based on a civilian "management model" rather than a military chain of command.

BTW, on another note, does the CCG commissioner and other regional directors have the authority like admirals to tell individual CCG ships on where to sail and where to port of call or they don't have the right to interfere with the Captains of these ships because they're like merchant sailors?

Just needing a little more clarification.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One did spend some time at sea, but was not suited for the role, he was very bright but not capable of the diverse requirements of being a bridge officer, the other came from another government department as a senior manager with a accountant background I believe.

Senior management can dictate ship routing and generally do it through setting priorities and then leaving the details to the fleet management people. However for foreign ports of call, permission is usually required unless there is an emergency. The Captain can make any decision they want, but may have to justify later, ships are expensive to run and there are work sheduales to meet. Each region normally runs a Regional Operation Centre that divides up taskings to the ship that is nearest/best suited for the task. the minister may request that a ship attend a event and such a request is normally only refused if there is a very good reason not to (SAR zone coverage, breakdowns, etc)

Civilian management model is a polite term for it 

 

[CougarKing]

Thanks again for all the responses. I had all these CCG questions because I was seriously considering a career change (won't say my current job) and was considering a 13-week seamanship course/Bridge Watchman course at a local college (British Columbia Institute of Technology) as a start.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

If you are young, it is a good career to start in, do the training, go deep sea when you are young to get your deep sea time so you can write your ON 1 & 2. then join the CCG, so you can have a bit more of a home life and then move into BC Ferries as you get older and have a family and retirement.

Yes being young is a good time to plan towards retirement. Federal Service will give a good pension.

 

[CougarKing]

Colin,

Well, I am only 24 years old now. I was seriously considering the CCG because I've always had an interest in naval/maritime affairs. I'm also considering Marcom but the wait "for the call" is too long and I'm not sure if I'd want to be stationed away from British Columbia (I might be sent to Halifax, not Esquimalt).

Still, I'm not so sure if I will be much use on ship without that vocational seamanship course, since my major in college (it's not technical) has nothing to do with the sea or marine engineering. I also considered the Coast Guard Auxiliary and keep my current job, but I'm not sure if the Auxiliary is anything like the real CCG.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Although the quality of the aux. can vary, the majority fo fine work, and you can learn certain skill sets there. But SAR is only part of the CCG mandate. There is a shortage of Deck Officers around the world. Byt the time you finish the BCIT course and get a job, you will be near 28, that gives a few years out in the blue to get the time, then apply for the CCG, where you would do month on, month off, so you can have a home life, set up a family, etc. Going navy is also a good career

 

[CougarKing]

Thanks again. BTW, I was talking about the 13-week Bridge Watchman course at BCIT, not the 4 year Deck Officer's course. Still, I've also seriously considered going back to college to get that other qualification.

Thanks for all your insights.

 

[Neill McKay]

Thanks again. BTW, I was talking about the 13-week Bridge Watchman course at BCIT, not the 4 year Deck Officer's course. Still, I've also seriously considered going back to college to get that other qualification.

Have you looked into the Coast Guard College at all?

 

[CougarKing]

Even though I've been through the Coast Guard College's website...

and even if the benefits of having a govt.-paid education at a quasi-military college (well someone said the cadets there do 12 hours of drill instruction) like the Coast Guard College are attractive...

...I'm still gauging whether I really want to go back to college again at my age, especially since I already have a degree (won't say what major) and since the CCGC website doesn't really say whether there's an age limit for cadet candidates for that college. I assume they do, but I may be wrong. Also, I assume that their selection process must be just as stringent as that for RMC Kingston.

Taking a 3-year Marine Engineer's course at BCIT here in BC or even in Georgian College in Ontario seems attractive as well, though I'm not sure about the opportunnities for advancement of a CCG engineering officer as opposed to a deck officer.

 

[Neill McKay]

...I'm still gauging whether I really want to go back to college again at my age, especially since I already have a degree (won't say what major) and since the CCGC website doesn't really say whether there's an age limit for cadet candidates for that college. I assume they do, but I may be wrong.

Nope.  Age limits are a bit out of style since the Charter of Rights came into effect.  I understand that "mature students" are far from being unheard of there.

Also, I assume that their selection process must be just as stringent as that for RMC Kingston.

I've been through the selection process for the CG College (but not for RMC), and I would suggest that marks aren't as important as they seem to be for RMC.  The process consists of some written tests -- high-school level math, physics, and languages mostly, an interview, and, if they offer you a job, security clearance and Transport Canada medical exam.  The process seems to be geared towards high school graduates.  As a thirty-something with a degree and some professional experience I found it a breeze.

Taking a 3-year Marine Engineer's course at BCIT here in BC or even in Georgian College in Ontario seems attractive as well, though I'm not sure about the opportunnities for advancement of a CCG engineering officer as opposed to a deck officer.

You can do engineering at the CG College as well.  My understanding is that they very rarely hire officers from any other source than the College, but that's something you should find out about from someone with more knowledge than me.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

We call the preferred hiring of the CG college grads "The fellowship of the ring" (they all wear their class rings) On the West Coast about maybe half of the deck Officers are college grads the rest worked their way up from the deck or came in from the commercial fleet.

 

[CougarKing]

Colin,

You've heard of CCG MCTS Officers? Those Marine Control and Traffic of Shipping (is this definition right?) Isn't it they don't wear uniforms or do they like the rest of the CCG?

 

[Neill McKay]

Colin,

You've heard of CCG MCTS Officers? Those Marine Control and Traffic of Shipping (is this definition right?)

It's Marine Communication and Traffic Services.

 

[CougarKing]

I was only pointing out the MCTS Officers because I wondered why they don't wear CCG uniforms (not just because they're not ship crews, since I believe USCG people in similar positions are still part of the USCG and wear uniforms). Do they consider themselves just like Airport Traffic Controllers? Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Just got off the phone with an old shipmate who works at MCTS Vancouver, he said the idea of uniforms for them was kicked around for awhile, but as the centre is not open to the public (except pre-arranged tours) there was no need of them to wear them.

 

[CougarKing]

Thanks for going out of your way for the reply. Still, I don't agree with that logic/argument since most Coast Guard ships aren't normally open to the public either and the crews (most of 'em anyway) wear uniforms or some sort of common working wear.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Logic and CCG policies aren't always best buddies!  ;D

 

[Neill McKay]

Thanks for going out of your way for the reply. Still, I don't agree with that logic/argument since most Coast Guard ships aren't normally open to the public either and the crews (most of 'em anyway) wear uniforms or some sort of common working wear.

Perhaps there are differences in working environment and culture that make uniforms desirable in a ship but not at an MCTS centre.

Comparisons with the USCG don't hold a lot of water in matters such as this, since the USCG is a military service and the CCG isn't.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I think trying to make the CCG into our version of the USCG will be a loosing battle at best. Our CCG will resist any change to make them otherwise. Try and expand the Navy and get us the ships to do expanded patrols and aid to navigation missions (i.e. icebreaking).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

As I mentioned, the real reason to restrict uniform wear ashore was to prevent a whole bunch of shore types wandering around festooned with gold braid.