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Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

I'm not sure if you're attempting a jab with the "deep state" comment, but the point I was making is using raw numbers like Altair was is a silly game.
Not a jab at you at all - only to some who are consistently skeptical about sources not going their way. Sincere apologies if you took that as a personal dig.
People are starting to feel as though the government doesn't represent them, and actively ignores them. That is not how a democracy is supposed to work, regardless of whether or not the government has the legal authority to act as they please. It's about leadership, and there has been a lack of it at all levels of government for some time.
Nothing I can disagree with there. We'll see what happens here, and how many folks make it out to the polls next time around.
 
Breaking: Noise injunction has been granted. Let’s see if it gets enforced.
"Tooting a horn is not an expression of any great thought I'm aware of," said Justice Hugh McLean during a court hearing in Ottawa Monday.

I don't think he was trying to be funny, but he succeed all the same.
 
I don't mind peaceful protest, but I don't think for a second that these protestors are owed anything in regards to a political response.

If I gathered 10,000 people in trucks to occupy a city and demanded that Canada switch to PR, would the government be forced to meet with me and negotiate?

Would the government be forced to meet me in the middle?

Would my 10,000 people be enough to influence government more than the results of 17m canadians voting?

The obvious answer is no.
You're right, they don't have to, but what happens when 10K turns into 20K, 100K, or 1 million. What happens when they decide that they are no longer represented by the government, and do whatever they please? The government doesn't have the forces to enforce the law on 1 million disobedient people, and even if they did, would that country still be Canada afterward?

Politics is about getting people with different ideas to work together for a common good. If the leaders of the country can't figure out how to keep the 10K people in the fold peacefully, there are consequences. What makes for good election politics doesn't make for a good way to run a country.

If people don't have enough concentrated support to

A) Win the most seats in parliament
B)Win a significant amount of seats in parliament
C)Win any seats in parliament

Then it is fair to conclude they do not have enough widespread support to have government hear them.

This protest is most in line with the PPC and the PPC didn't do any of the above. Why should the government listen to PPC voters?
Remember the CPC won more votes than the LPC, they were just less efficient with their votes. Not winning a seat doesn't mean those people's opinions are irrelevant. In your favourite example of the PPC, there were ~800K Canadians that voted for them. That's close enough to a million people who feel as though their government is actively working against them....

Changing the voting system might fix things, but less antagonistic politicians would also go a long way toward fixing the issues we are facing. To be clear, Canada is far from the only country dealing with these issues, it's just the one we know best.
 
What next, NDP voters showing up in trucks demanding Universal basic income? does the government need to meet with them and meet them halfway?
You mean voters who have a direct linkage to the active support of the incumbent government? You’re saying thats a similar logical construct as disenfranchised (feeling unrepresented) citizens protesting?
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Changing the voting system might fix things, but less antagonistic politicians would also go a long way toward fixing the issues we are facing.
I remember that being promised… 🤔
 
You're right, they don't have to, but what happens when 10K turns into 20K, 100K, or 1 million. What happens when they decide that they are no longer represented by the government, and do whatever they please? The government doesn't have the forces to enforce the law on 1 million disobedient people, and even if they did, would that country still be Canada afterward?
If they do whatever they choose they need to face the consequences of doing that. If the break the law, they face legal repercussions. If they want to protest, let them protest, within the framework of legal protests in this country. If they want to organize and work within the system, let them do that as well. But the government has zero obligation to sit down and negotiate with a protest group, none.
Politics is about getting people with different ideas to work together for a common good. If the leaders of the country can't figure out how to keep the 10K people in the fold peacefully, there are consequences. What makes for good election politics doesn't make for a good way to run a country.
There are consequences, for those 10k people.

Again, 17m voters, we cannot just listen to those with the loudest horns.
Remember the CPC won more votes than the LPC, they were just less efficient with their votes. Not winning a seat doesn't mean those people's opinions are irrelevant.
They certainly did, and they certainly have a voice within parliament, and even they are not (or at least their last leader was not) for taking down all mandates. There was only one party that wanted that, the PPC.
In your favourite example of the PPC, there were ~800K Canadians that voted for them. That's close enough to a million people who feel as though their government is actively working against them....
Again, slightly less than 5 percent of the electorate voted PPC and their views. Why does the government need to work with that group as opposed to everyone who voted LPC, everyone who voted NDP, everyone who voted BQ and everyone who voted CPC?

The government cannot be all things for everyone, that's not how it works. The will of the people as a collective is how parliament works, and sometimes that leaves groups on the outside looking in. The Left dealt with near 10 years of Stephen Harper in power, that's just how the system works.
Changing the voting system might fix things, but less antagonistic politicians would also go a long way toward fixing the issues we are facing. To be clear, Canada is far from the only country dealing with these issues, it's just the one we know best.
I'm all for changing the political system, more PR for example. Let the PPC into parliament, let there be more collaboration.

But I don't think adding the PPC to parliament makes any great changes, anymore than the Green Party currently drives government policy now.
 
You're right, they don't have to, but what happens when 10K turns into 20K, 100K, or 1 million. What happens when they decide that they are no longer represented by the government, and do whatever they please? The government doesn't have the forces to enforce the law on 1 million disobedient people, and even if they did, would that country still be Canada afterward?

Politics is about getting people with different ideas to work together for a common good. If the leaders of the country can't figure out how to keep the 10K people in the fold peacefully, there are consequences. What makes for good election politics doesn't make for a good way to run a country.


Remember the CPC won more votes than the LPC, they were just less efficient with their votes. Not winning a seat doesn't mean those people's opinions are irrelevant. In your favourite example of the PPC, there were ~800K Canadians that voted for them. That's close enough to a million people who feel as though their government is actively working against them....

Changing the voting system might fix things, but less antagonistic politicians would also go a long way toward fixing the issues we are facing. To be clear, Canada is far from the only country dealing with these issues, it's just the one we know best.
What’s important to remember is the protests are mostly about restoring what’s been taken away (by stopping mandates and restrictions). Not fundamental changes to a voting system, for instance.
 
Politicians already know that the number of people motivated to write a letter to a member of a legislature or participate in a protest is representative of a larger number of sympathetic people.

Protest is a way of effecting change, and when effective, typically has overridden "democracy".

Playing the suit of extremism cards right out of the gate was a dumbfuck response by politicians, making it harder for them to save face if they give any ground.
 
Altair keeps acting like only 10,000 people in this country are upset with the mandates and government actions.
I'm sure the number is higher than that, heck, I say that the PPC vote is highly reflective of the part of the country that wants mandates gone.

850k to 1m.

But as society as a whole, I think people more or less are supportive of some mandates, and those 850k-1m people do not have the right to force the government to bend to their will over the will of everyone else.
 
Politicians already know that the number of people motivated to write a letter to a member of a legislature or participate in a protest is representative of a larger number of sympathetic people.

Protest is a way of effecting change, and when effective, typically has overridden "democracy".

Playing the suit of extremism cards right out of the gate was a dumbfuck response by politicians, making it harder for them to save face if they give any ground.
Except that they wont give any ground and these protests will end.

Win Win.

The only losers here are Ottawa and the OPS who allowed this nonsense to turn into an occupation. Quebec city and other jurisdictions showed over the weekend that they would not put up with this nonsense, and they were all over by monday.
 
Playing the suit of extremism cards right out of the gate was a dumbfuck response by politicians, making it harder for them to save face if they give any ground.
Heard someone today describe Putin being in a better position to walk back on UKR than Trudeau does calling all the truckers racists and bigots.
 
Huron Church is blocked. As I have said else where. The ambassador bridge and the Bluewater with the two train tunnels are the largest choke point the economy in all of North America
 
if this group would go home and have regional meetings and pick candidates in the next federal election to back they would be a super power to deal with.

They have proven the fundraising power they can amass. Yes I know Elections Canada has strict rules on fund raising. But no political party seems to be able to fund raise this kind of money on weekend. They could put their war chest behind select candidates and get their people elected. Only problem is some of their leadership is Anti-Canada and that might pose problems if they retain membership in the west exit party.

This group as united Canadians on 3 coasts on both sides of the fight.
 
And full disclosure, even though most already may assume that I have a progressive bent, I have participated in demonstrations that elicited a much more robust police response than demonstrated by the recent OPS action (or inaction). But my "radical" phase was over half a century ago.

Seeing the old "Riot and Emergency Squad" in action was a sight to behold. Although by then, officially, they were referred to as Emergency Task Force.





 
if this group would go home and have regional meetings and pick candidates in the next federal election to back they would be a super power to deal with.

They have proven the fundraising power they can amass. Yes I know Elections Canada has strict rules on fund raising. But no political party seems to be able to fund raise this kind of money on weekend. They could put their war chest behind select candidates and get their people elected. Only problem is some of their leadership is Anti-Canada and that might pose problems if they retain membership in the west exit party.

This group as united Canadians on 3 coasts on both sides of the fight.
Yeah, if organized and willing to work within the system they could do something.

Instead they piss it all away honking.
 
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