Future of ATHENA: Manning issues & LAV III upgrades

[dapaterson]

I note there are 15,500 Army reservists. Largish numbers of those are R031. Seems like a good manpower pool of soldiers who already have some skills. Call up would be political dynamite, but perhaps incentives for full time commitment for 18 or more months full time service, or try to task full time sub units from each brigade or whatever. Get creative with the reserves. I have no idea what all the issues would be, but darn it they signed up to serve - take 'em up on it. What is being done here, if anything, other than individual augmentation for specific TF's? That would seem a reasonable route for the short term (say 5 years or so) until recruiting and training catches up to the expansion needed.

Not as simple as it sounds (nor as complex as other would make it).  Of the 16K active pers in the Army Reserve, you have to deduct those not yet occupationallyqualified, then look at how many are already serving full-time.  The numbrs aren't nearly as rosy once those calculations are made.  And while the Army Reserve has no where near as many senior folks with no real job as the Reg F (9 Reg F Inf bns, over 100 Reg F Inf LCols strikes me as excessive), there are still structural issues that reduce the number of folks available in the ranks and trades needed.

Reservists are currently augmenting in up to platoon strengths; in Bosnia there were Reserve companies serving (composite companies).  But as has been stated earlier in this thread, the Army's breaking point isn't with the Infantry - it's with the other trades.

 

[JBP]

The idea that you can be accepted into one trade and then be arbitrarily trained in another seems a bit dishonest, and a bit desperate. I see issues of unit morale and individual disatisfaction here.  I wonder what the media impact would be if they got their teeth into it.

The plug and play idea seems more workable, but I suspect, from my outsiders viewpoint, that this would result in fragmented and potentially less effective units, yes? It seems unpopular with George and 099*so I assume it's generally unwanted.

I note there are 15,500 Army reservists. Largish numbers of those are R031. Seems like a good manpower pool of soldiers who already have some skills. Call up would be political dynamite, but perhaps incentives for full time commitment for 18 or more months full time service, or try to task full time sub units from each brigade or whatever. Get creative with the reserves. I have no idea what all the issues would be, but darn it they signed up to serve - take 'em up on it. What is being done here, if anything, other than individual augmentation for specific TF's? That would seem a reasonable route for the short term (say 5 years or so) until recruiting and training catches up to the expansion needed.

The argument could be made that any Res that really wants to serve can CT to the regs, but from what I read on the forums that's a bit of a mess and extensive Class C augmentation seems simpler to implement. This would seem a better solution then rerolling the unwilling.

SO many people from my unit would be far too happy to be 'activated' and sent on work-up training to go on a roto! But I really do think that would be a political nuclear bomb for the current government in power and the CDS would probably be made the scape-goat...

But in anycase, I think this is a perfect stop-gap temporary solution and what the reserves are partially meant for. But we all know nothing like this will even be remotely considered....

:crybaby:

 

[x-grunt]

:rofl:    You don't certify opinion polls for the NDP do you?

What do they pay?  ;D

You're right though, I made a sweeping generalization from two posters opinions.

 

[Retired45]

My God this sounds like a Momma's boy army, Human rights voilations, redresses, what the hell do you think this is the boy scouts!!!.

People once you signed the dotted............... line they can put your A$@% anywhere they please, period!

Gen. Hilliar has the right idea and this should have been done years ago

GRUNT FIRST. TRADES MAN SECOND.

If you don't like it then don't sign up or get out AND STOP the WHINING!

As far as our AF goes we don't have one, most of our CF-18's have been moth balled with the exception of a few that are still flying and a hand full of 130's and helicopters still in the air. What we need a few hundred airframe and engine techs to take care of them? NO, so give them some trainning a rifle and kick their butts into the combat arms. Same goes for many other non combat arms trades. Even if we were only able to retain 10-20% of these people it would go along way to solving the "Boots on the ground" problem.

I'm all for activating reservist for long term Class B contracts, 12 to 24 months would be ideal.

 

[KevinB]

Oh I forgot the Arty went to a 4 gun Bty  :  (there used to be 4 gun troops )  from the 6 Gun batteries.  An Arty Reg't is hardly raped to provide the tool they are being asked too.

I have not paid attention to the Arty since E Bty became track toads -- but they used to have 3 gun Bty's (at 6 tubes /bty) and a AD Bty (this is 93-94 timeframe went I left for the Pat's) plus a HQ Bty.
I think the AD guys died or all retired.

Not surprised with the FOO/FAC when you get that gig and a NCO you tend to hang on and beat others off with a stick and just rotate officers thru.







 

 

[Korus]

I'm all for activating reservist for long term Class B contracts, 12 to 24 months would be ideal.

Why not Class C?

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

As far as our AF goes we don't have one, most of our CF-18's have been moth balled with the exception of a few that are still flying and a hand full of 130's and helicopters still in the air. What we need a few hundred airframe and engine techs to take care of them? NO, so give them some trainning a rifle and kick their butts into the combat arms. Same goes for many other non combat arms trades. Even if we were only able to retain 10-20% of these people it would go along way to solving the "Boots on the ground" problem.

Brilliant... :  Why do you think we have a "handful" of Hercs? 

You signing on again? 

 

[cplcaldwell]

Why not Class C?

10-90?

'Pile on' to begin in 3.. 2... 1...

 

[orange.paint]

099,

It's not even close an Armoured recce Det commander is nowhere near the same as an Infantry Recce Det commander, It's two very separate skills, just like an Armoured recce crewman is not an Infantry Recce soldier. I am an Infantry Recce soldier I cannot use a Coyote to it's fullest potential like an Armoured recce crewman can, and in that same breath the Armoured recce crewman cannot do the close target or dismounted recce like I can. Now take that skill and amplify it immensely and you'll get an idea of just how false that statement was.

But your point on the plug and play style of Task Forces is not lost, it's already being done as we speak with TF 03-06 2 Companies of RCR, 1 Company of PPCLI, 1 Company of R22R and then you add on RCD, 23 field Sqn (might be 22 I am fuzzy on that) and then the CSS trades and you see just how Plug and Play is being used.

Your absolutely right.I'm not saying today with today's mindset/training that recce det and a recce troop is the same.What I was trying to allude to was the ability to intertrain where there is one combat arm.Where you qualifications put you where you belong.IE, infanteer with speciality level Sig's courses=Sig op.Infanteer with mounted training=armoured.


It becomes almost a loyalty issue when you support or don't the idea of ridding the CF of the regimental systems.That's what me and GW were referring to.It was dreaded at the regiment while we both served there.

As for the whole topic it is voluntary.He even spoke of how B sqn RCD was rerolled as infantry for Bosnia.If they don't get their numbers they will volunteer people.DP1 armoured is still going foward,checked today. ;D

As for journeyman. Personal insults on the internet for no reason,that's a stand up act.<ignore>
:

 

[SeaKingTacco]

GRUNT FIRST. TRADES MAN SECOND.

If you don't like it then don't sign up or get out AND STOP the WHINING!

Thanks for the gross over-simplification of a complex problem.  You comments are very helpful.  :

 

[COBRA-6]

Why not Class C?

wait for it! 

 

[HItorMiss]

I hope not...Were sending barely up to speed Reg guys now, the last thing we need are a bunch under trained reservists that eat up more training time we don't have.

NOTE: I said under trained not poorly trained or not trainable, I just think training up the Res guys will take more time and money then it's worth honestly

 

[COBRA-6]

well perhaps offering a reserve soldier a 36 month contract (including a trip downrange) could fix that training delta...

 

[HItorMiss]

Not disgreeing with that Cobra but why take 36 months when a Reg F guy is tarined to snuff in 4-6 months?

 

[George Wallace]

Not disgreeing with that Cobra but why take 36 months when a Reg F guy is tarined to snuff in 4-6 months?

I think you missed the point on that.  He isn't saying it is going to take 36 months to get them trained up to snuff.  He is saying give them the incentive of 36 months Class C Pay.

 

[KevinB]

I think the issue was simply sending reservist to a unit to bring it up to wartime strenght and the 36 mo contract ensures they are a true part of the unit.
(heck they will have more time in the unit that a Pte on a first BE)

I think one of the biggest issues should be streamlining the CT process. 

 

[COBRA-6]

I think one of the biggest issues should be streamlining the CT process. 

you're absolutely right, unfortunately that change is not happening fast enough, it should be as simple as a posting message...

 

[HItorMiss]

I think the issue was simply sending reservist to a unit to bring it up to wartime strength and the 36 mo contract ensures they are a true part of the unit.
(heck they will have more time in the unit that a Pte on a first BE)

I think one of the biggest issues should be streamlining the CT process. 

Now that I agree with to an extant, I would like to see a minimum days in time though to beat the avg BE Pte and I think minimum rank of Cpl should also be used.

Agree 100% on the CT thing though, too many people are getting hung up by hoarding units.

 

[George Wallace]

Now that I agree with to an extant, I would like to see a minimum days in time though to beat the avg BE Pte and I think minimum rank of Cpl should also be used.

Agree 100% on the CT thing though, too many people are getting hung up by hoarding units.

Perhaps the solution lies in those Bns that Harper wanted to put into the Major Centers.  Reg Force nucleus, and 36 month Class C Call Outs.  Get the support of the Bde Units, and use it as a stepping board also for those who want to CT.

 

[KevinB]

HoM -- If a reservist has completed a BIQ - he should be good to go.  The training and experience he/she will get in a Reg unit with a year (min) before the deployment date - will make them a seamless fit.  Right now the Reg BIQ people are incompetant when they come out of training - your not getting screwed anyworse by putting a reserivst there too.

C-6 -- yeah the formula for res->reg or reg->  is pretty simple -- I know some units that wait on troops CT's until summer concentrations etc