Guns or Drones or Both?

[HavokFour]

Worth a mention that the DIS includes the creation of a Drone Innovation Hub at the National Research Council, with a $105 million investment over 3 years.

 

[ytz]

Some details have come out about Hedgehog 2025 held last May in Estonia.

“We are f—”: 10 Ukrainians with drones wipe out two NATO battalions in war game - Euromaidan Press

Ukrainian drone team wiped out two NATO battalions in a day during Estonia's Hedgehog 2025 exercise, exposing the alliance's drone warfare gap.

euromaidanpress.com

This sounds like the army version of when F-22 Raptors get killed during exercsises. It's a purposely handicapped exercise. Yes, there's a lot to learn about drone use at the tactical level. But also, Ukraine is not how near-peer war with NATO would happen.

 

[GR66]

This sounds like the army version of when F-22 Raptors get killed during exercsises. It's a purposely handicapped exercise. Yes, there's a lot to learn about drone use at the tactical level. But also, Ukraine is not how near-peer war with NATO would happen.

While that may be true it also may indicate that there are a number of fieldcraft lessons regarding dispersion, deception and camouflage that need to be (re)learned. It also probably indicates how woefully NATO armies are behind in deployed EW (both offensive and defensive), C-UAS and AD capabilities in relation to the modern battlefield.

 

[Furniture]

While that may be true it also may indicate that there are a number of fieldcraft lessons regarding dispersion, deception and camouflage that need to be (re)learned. It also probably indicates how woefully NATO armies are behind in deployed EW (both offensive and defensive), C-UAS and AD capabilities in relation to the modern battlefield.

It also likely reflects a lot of "trainingitis" in Western nations. We know what we should be doing, but since it's just an exercise, we will do what is convenient.

The real danger comes in when trainingitis hits during real events... Like when PRO's attack teams didn't use AFFF because they did so many repetitive(and dull/pointless) fire exercises where the wand wasn't dipped in the AFFF that when the real thing happened people did exactly as they had been trained.

 

[Kirkhill]

Drones ‘change everything’ about combined arms combat, US Army aviation chief says

The commanding general of the U.S. Army Aviation Center of Excellence discusses the impact of unmanned systems on U.S. Army aviation and combined arms.

www.militarytimes.com

“We would be fools not to pay attention and not to take a lot of lessons from them, which we’re doing, but we can’t take the wrong lessons,” Gill said. “Just because it didn’t work in Russia-Ukraine doesn’t mean it might not work for us.”

 

[HavokFour]

Now here's an interesting dilemma. A lot of the drones sent to Ukraine from the West are often obsolete compared to what gets made in-country by the time it gets there. Traditional supply lines and R&D in the West still hasn't reached the speed necessary for how quickly the technology is evolving.

Ukraine ends up scrapping a lot for parts.

Can drones be stockpiled? Europe wrestles with weapons dilemma

Finland struggles to replicate cold war-era artillery depots for high-tech weaponry that rapidly turns obsolete

www.ft.com

Archive

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Now here's an interesting dilemma. A lot of the drones sent to Ukraine from the West are often obsolete compared to what gets made in-country by the time it gets there. Traditional supply lines and R&D in the West still hasn't reached the speed necessary for how quickly the technology is evolving.

Ukraine ends up scrapping a lot for parts.

Can drones be stockpiled? Europe wrestles with weapons dilemma

Finland struggles to replicate cold war-era artillery depots for high-tech weaponry that rapidly turns obsolete

www.ft.com

Archive

Stockpile parts (rotor blades, batteries, electric motors, chassis parts, droppable munitions). Those don’t go obsolete very quickly. Update your assembly plans weekly/monthly.

 

[GR66]

Stockpile parts (rotor blades, batteries, electric motors, chassis parts, droppable munitions). Those don’t go obsolete very quickly. Update your assembly plans weekly/monthly.

Also set common standards for things like connectors, mounting points for various components, etc. Allows for multiple suppliers to provide different components rather than relying on a single OEM to provide a final product.

 

[HavokFour]

Ukraine's treasure trove of battlefield AI data is being made available to allies. Exactly the kind of thing our newly announced Drone Innovation Hub that the NRC is creating should have access to.

Ukraine opens battlefield AI data to allies in world-first move

Ukraine is giving international partners and defense companies access to its trove of real combat data to train AI models for autonomous drone systems.

www.defensenews.com

 

[HavokFour]

Some details have come out about Hedgehog 2025 held last May in Estonia.

“We are f—”: 10 Ukrainians with drones wipe out two NATO battalions in war game - Euromaidan Press

Ukrainian drone team wiped out two NATO battalions in a day during Estonia's Hedgehog 2025 exercise, exposing the alliance's drone warfare gap.

euromaidanpress.com

And again. Ukraine is definitely showing some major gaps the west has when it comes to this inexpensive drone age.

Under the exercise rules, the winner was the first to successfully launch an attack on enemy ships. During a simulated strike on a convoy, the "Red" team achieved enough hits on a NATO frigate that it would have been destroyed in actual combat.

“The problem was not that they could not stop us—they did not even see our weapons,” a source told the newspaper.

During the maneuvers, Ukraine demonstrated several versions of its MAGURA V7 maritime drone. One model featured reconnaissance equipment and an explosive charge, while another was equipped with a machine gun.

Ukrainian-Led Team Simulates Sea Drone Strike on NATO Frigate in Portugal Exercises

Ukraine-led Red force in REPMUS/Dynamic Messenger 2025 used Magura drones to breach NATO convoy defense, showing gaps in maritime detection.

united24media.com