How the Navy treats its kids ... er, sailors (From: Re-Royalization)

[Eye In The Sky]

Maybe we are not following thru enough in the phases of discipline to the desired end state; self discipline.

Every NCM and officer are to know and obey all orders and regulations, including dress regs.

Those who don't adhere to regs are supposed to be corrected by their superiors..

Based on that, this really boils down to lack of self discipline and failing leadership. The fix should come from the applicable Sunray.

There used to be pride in appearance.  Bringing that back is a leadership function, from Jnr NCOs on up.

 

[jollyjacktar]

If one is so worried about the loops or lack thereof in my boot laces, then they have too much time on their hands that could be better spent elsewhere.  Unless they are a total bag of shyte, then don't sweat the small stuff.  And really, if you're hovering over Stad like some sort of Vulture looking for an easy kill, you're not at your desk/shop doing your job...  elsewise, go to Esquimault/St Jean where your latent talents will be better appreciated.

Isn't there the maxim, "no inspection ready unit ever passed combat and no combat ready unit ever passed inspection?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

To an extent, I agree.  Having said that I still lace my boots the way I was taught in Cornwallis 26 summers ago. 

If you lace your parade boots  like combat boots, well you are lazy and should know better.  If you get picked up on parade its your own fault.

In the field, flying etc if you work for me and tie your boots up, I really only care they arent a safety issue and stay on your feet.

 

[OldSolduer]

If the system worked...we would not see the need for random times when CPOs are stationed at the dockyard gates to "catch infractions". If the unit / ship level divisional worked in a perfect world, there would be no need for base / formation / fleet CPOs to post people at the gates.

As a LS, I respectfully pointed out dress errors and was duly ignored.
God forbid, if I ever forgot my "war of 1812 pin".    :facepalm:

War story - our QMSI used to put the RPs at the main gate of Kapyong to catch people not wearing berets in their PMVs and not wearing seat belts.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If one is so worried about the loops or lack thereof in my boot laces, then they have too much time on their hands that could be better spent elsewhere.  Unless they are a total bag of shyte, then don't sweat the small stuff.  And really, if you're hovering over Stad like some sort of Vulture looking for an easy kill, you're not at your desk/shop doing your job...  elsewise, go to Esquimault/St Jean where your latent talents will be better appreciated.

Isn't there the maxim, "no inspection ready unit ever passed combat and no combat ready unit ever passed inspection?

Spoken like a true engineer  

That maxim is a misnomer because for a unit to go into combat it has to pass various readiness "inspections".  If I cant trust a Cpl to show up to work looking right dressed and well turned out how exactly can I expect his equipment to be in operational shape and well maintained ?

JJT like it or not part of our job is dress and deportment.  Why cant we have people that can make things happen and look presentable as well ? 

I get it, when your crawling around the bilges you are going to get dirty, to put it lightly.  But that does not mean that you cannot clean up and make yourself look presentable when you leave work. 

You know I love you JJT

 

[George Wallace]

Guess no one told you why boots are laced a certain way in jobs that may require cutting footwear off an injured foot/leg.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Guess no one told you why boots are laced a certain way in jobs that may require cutting footwear off an injured foot/leg.

Not to mention you better hope Ghurkhas aren't operating in your area as well if you X lace your boots.  I had an instructor in college who found out at first light, why, while operating in the same area of Aden many many moons ago.  One Aussie who refused to heed the warnings really found out the hard way.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Spoken like a true engineer  

That maxim is a misnomer because for a unit to go into combat it has to pass various readiness "inspections".  If I cant trust a Cpl to show up to work looking right dressed and well turned out how exactly can I expect his equipment to be in operational shape and well maintained ?

JJT like it or not part of our job is dress and deportment.  Why cant we have people that can make things happen and look presentable as well ? 

I get it, when your crawling around the bilges you are going to get dirty, to put it lightly.  But that does not mean that you cannot clean up and make yourself look presentable when you leave work. 

You know I love you JJT

I know you do.  :nod:  But going out the gate looking like a bag of rags is one thing and fair game.  Nit picking is another.  I don't have patience for people with too much time on their hands.

 

[cupper]

You know I love you JJT

I know you do.  :nod:

You Navy guys want some privacy or something? >

 

[brihard]

You Navy guys want some privacy or something? >

Reasonably sure that's a foreign concept to them.

 

[jollyjacktar]

;D

 

[Pusser]

Isn't there the maxim, "no inspection ready unit ever passed combat and no combat ready unit ever passed inspection?

Utter nonsense.

There are certainly "garret troopers" (as Barry Sadler referred to them) out there, but I've never met a "great field soldier" who looked like a bag of shyte in garrison.  As Halifax Tar said, if a guy can't get his act together to look presentable in garrison, he certainly cannot be trusted to look after his own or his unit's kit.  Keep in mind that the military obsession with cleaning, polishing, pressing, etc. actually has operational origins.  In days past, soldiers/sailors maintained their kit by cleaning it (polishing, oiling, etc).  A clean, well-maintained uniform was usually indicative of a clean, healthy soldier/sailor.

A well maintained, clean, polished, pressed uniform and combat skills are not mutually exclusive, but rather complimentary.  Those of us who believe in high standards for "buttons and bows" and drill and ceremonial do not also believe that combat skills are less important.  We want it all.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I am not suggesting that I want to be or see bags shyte walking around, but, I do care more about if you can do your job rather than if you look pretty.  How snappy a dresser you are means little if you are an idiot workwise.  Sure it's nice to have it all, however, I lean more on the ability side than pretty side. 

 

[Pusser]

  Sure it's nice to have it all, however, I lean more on the ability side than pretty side.

As do I.  As should we all.  However, I would question the ability of anyone who cannot achieve a "presentable" appearance (keeping also in mind that "presentable" may mean covered in grease/paint if one is actually greasing/painting at the time).

 

[Halifax Tar]

We keep forgetting that maintaining your uniform and looking sharp is as much part of your job as your technical aspects.

For the record I have yet to meet a bag-o-shyte that wasn't a bag-o-shyte all across the board. 

 

[George Wallace]

We keep forgetting that maintaining your uniform and looking sharp is as much part of your job as your technical aspects.

For the record I have yet to meet a bag-o-shyte that wasn't a bag-o-shyte all across the board.

I agree with you, however, I have run across the rare few in my time in service that, although good soldiers, just could not be dressed up to look sharp.  No matter how you (and they) tried, you could never make them look presentable in any uniform.  Even in Cbts they looked like "a bag-o-shyte".

 

[jollyjacktar]

I can think of one now retired stoker fromt the east coast in particular who is brilliant, but quite frankly a bit, well quite a bit of a savant.  I remember helping Danny put on his floater jacket at a Sea Survival Refresher as he was having some trouble making it happen.  He could at times not be expected to have all the buttons and bows correct, that did not detract from the good side of his abilities.  After all Einstine couldn't come to grips with driving a car, was famous for walking up to strangers in Princetown, introducing himself and asking if they knew where he lived as he was lost. 

 

[Ostrozac]

For the record I have yet to meet a bag-o-shyte that wasn't a bag-o-shyte all across the board.

I have served with quite a few people that seemed to have been born covered in dust, dirt and grease, but were still first rate soldiers, sailors and airmen. I also know plenty of people who where pretty enough to be on the cover of a magazine, but were completely useless professionally.

Clothes don't make the man.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I have served with quite a few people that seemed to have been born covered in dust, dirt and grease, but were still first rate soldiers, sailors and airmen. I also know plenty of people who where pretty enough to be on the cover of a magazine, but were completely useless professionally.

Clothes don't make the man.

There is a big difference in someone who gets dirty doing a job and someone who cannot maintain or wear the uniform properly. 

 

[mariomike]

There is a big difference in someone who gets dirty doing a job and someone who cannot maintain or wear the uniform properly.

:goodpost:

I would say that applies to all Elements, and even outside the military.