Lets dispell this gay myth
- Thread starter Trinity
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tomahawk6 said:
so as long as you hide your true self your OK? thats a dumb law
so as long as you don't say your Scottish your OK?
but thats the US for you
we had a Lesbean in my BMQ there was no problem with it at all.
and if there was a gay guy I would not have a problem with it ether
the rules say no relashonships with people you train with, so there should not be a Issue at all.
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no relashonships
Perhaps a little bondage though?
Perhaps a little bondage though?
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Dogboy said:
Good. I expect that you will be the first to hop into a sleeping bag with him when he falls through the ice on an exercise, perform CPR on him if he needs it, and bump elbows with him while showering in those $%#@ canadian field showers. How about getting in the rear guard for him when you are practicing grappling? And when he gets killed somewhere, you can go home with his body and hug his boyfriend.
Sound harsh?
We are in the profession of arms. Close physical contact is often required. Homosexuals are not the problem, the rest of the army's reaction to them is. BUT we should not sacrifice the cohesiveness of our units on the altar of forcing some sort of social engineering agenda. The US has it just right. Dont ask, dont tell.
Cheers
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Are you trying to tell me a gay guy is going to get off if some other guy had to give him CPR. Give me a break.
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kincanucks said:
WTF?
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whiskey601 said:
re lash on ships.
Maybe naval bondage? I mean after 154 dribbling (no pun intended) "I hate gays or I love gays" posts there has to be a little humour somewhere.
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kincanucks said:
You need to get out more my friend.
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whiskey601 said:
Perhaps a sense of humour would help?
N
neuromancer
Guest
I've been pretty hesitant to weight in on this subject
since its too easy to make a mistake.
Honestly though, I still feel uncomfortable about showering
with gay men.
If I was forced to shower with female co-workers I am not sure
that I could stop myself from looking, and If I did look
I'm pretty sure I would like what I saw. (please imagine
a passing glance, not a psychotic drooling stare)
Please don't take that the wrong way!! I would never hit
on any of the women in the shower with me, I have tones
of respect for military women!
Actually, I'm a married man! I'm only trying to admit in
a tactful way that I do find women attractive, and just because
I'm married to a wonderful/beautiful/loving partner my appreciation
for the female form has not died. Its in my genes.
So now, if there are gay men in the shower with me, well... would they
react the same way towards me and other guys?
This is only a tiny issue, the army is full of far more complicated
higher risk situations than just having a darn shower.
Perhaps the "don't ask, don't tell" idea does hold some water.
I might feel better not knowing.
If gay men are entitled to their feelings, shouldn't I be entitled to
my feelings as well?
since its too easy to make a mistake.
Honestly though, I still feel uncomfortable about showering
with gay men.
If I was forced to shower with female co-workers I am not sure
that I could stop myself from looking, and If I did look
I'm pretty sure I would like what I saw. (please imagine
a passing glance, not a psychotic drooling stare)
Please don't take that the wrong way!! I would never hit
on any of the women in the shower with me, I have tones
of respect for military women!
Actually, I'm a married man! I'm only trying to admit in
a tactful way that I do find women attractive, and just because
I'm married to a wonderful/beautiful/loving partner my appreciation
for the female form has not died. Its in my genes.
So now, if there are gay men in the shower with me, well... would they
react the same way towards me and other guys?
This is only a tiny issue, the army is full of far more complicated
higher risk situations than just having a darn shower.
Perhaps the "don't ask, don't tell" idea does hold some water.
I might feel better not knowing.
If gay men are entitled to their feelings, shouldn't I be entitled to
my feelings as well?
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Neuromancer, don't worry, your point is, like GO's, correct in many respects. It is a foggy issue, and one that will probably become an issue at some point in time.
However, I was being the devil's advocate because, having worked in close proximity with females, the privacy is slim to none and almost all male soldiers I know can keep a grip on themselves. As mentioned, there will probably be certain privacy issues with some gays, but I don't think it is fair to make the assumption that a gay soldier is going to turn flaming gay the minute you and him occupy a trench.
Basically, I'm basing the call on professionalism here - it seems to have worked up to now.
However, I was being the devil's advocate because, having worked in close proximity with females, the privacy is slim to none and almost all male soldiers I know can keep a grip on themselves. As mentioned, there will probably be certain privacy issues with some gays, but I don't think it is fair to make the assumption that a gay soldier is going to turn flaming gay the minute you and him occupy a trench.
Basically, I'm basing the call on professionalism here - it seems to have worked up to now.
They could be homophobic. Why? You would probably have to ask them yourself.
I think everyone knows where I stand on this one. I don't agree with it one single bit. --BUT--I don't agree with discrimination because of their sexual choice, but like many have said in this thread, I don't want it flaunted in my face.
I know that when you don't like something or agree with it, for some reason it's real easy to spot it everywhere you go, and it's real easy to find it's flaws over the good things.
What people do in the their own privacy is their own business. This goes for heterosexual people as well. I don't like seeing two people suck the face off each other, regardless of their sexual preference. Just don't shove it down my throats. I mean, I turned on the television when I was about to eat dinner, and on the guide were the following shows. "My fabulous gay wedding", "Queer as folk", "Queer eye for the straight guy", just to name a few. I know there are many hetero shows, but for someone who opposes homosexuality, these shows come off as flaunting it.
If I make the selection process and get through all the training and have to work with gays or lesbians, then so be it. As long as they're as reliable as the next person to do their MOC with 110%, then that's fine with me.
I don't agree with homosexual marriage(Christianity), which goes against my morals. One thing I really don't agree with is the fact that gays and lesbians can adopt children. Don't jump down my thoat here, this concern is mainly for the child, and how it would fare growing up in school and such. We all know that kids can be very cruel and whatnot, and I would think that the child would have a hard social life. I'm not attacking the fact that they could or could not be good parents in providing advice and the necessities, but you all know yourselves, that if a little boy or girl had two dads or two moms, then he/she would be made fun of. This would be viewed as 'different' from the 'norm' and we can all recall going to grammar school, when something wasn't normal, or ordinary, kids poked fun. Kids look for the smallest things to use as an excuse to pick on other kids... especially when it involves a sensitive topic such as this.
Really, what I think many are just saying, is not to shove the whole "homosexuality bit" down everybody's throats.
I think everyone knows where I stand on this one. I don't agree with it one single bit. --BUT--I don't agree with discrimination because of their sexual choice, but like many have said in this thread, I don't want it flaunted in my face.
I know that when you don't like something or agree with it, for some reason it's real easy to spot it everywhere you go, and it's real easy to find it's flaws over the good things.
What people do in the their own privacy is their own business. This goes for heterosexual people as well. I don't like seeing two people suck the face off each other, regardless of their sexual preference. Just don't shove it down my throats. I mean, I turned on the television when I was about to eat dinner, and on the guide were the following shows. "My fabulous gay wedding", "Queer as folk", "Queer eye for the straight guy", just to name a few. I know there are many hetero shows, but for someone who opposes homosexuality, these shows come off as flaunting it.
If I make the selection process and get through all the training and have to work with gays or lesbians, then so be it. As long as they're as reliable as the next person to do their MOC with 110%, then that's fine with me.
I don't agree with homosexual marriage(Christianity), which goes against my morals. One thing I really don't agree with is the fact that gays and lesbians can adopt children. Don't jump down my thoat here, this concern is mainly for the child, and how it would fare growing up in school and such. We all know that kids can be very cruel and whatnot, and I would think that the child would have a hard social life. I'm not attacking the fact that they could or could not be good parents in providing advice and the necessities, but you all know yourselves, that if a little boy or girl had two dads or two moms, then he/she would be made fun of. This would be viewed as 'different' from the 'norm' and we can all recall going to grammar school, when something wasn't normal, or ordinary, kids poked fun. Kids look for the smallest things to use as an excuse to pick on other kids... especially when it involves a sensitive topic such as this.
Really, what I think many are just saying, is not to shove the whole "homosexuality bit" down everybody's throats.
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Hey bud, I find ignorance and homophobia to be offensive and I don't want it flaunted in my face or shoved down my throat. Maybe you should just quit while you're ahead?
Trinity
Army.ca Veteran
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GO!!! said:
Yes... I will
And I will do it for you and anyone who needs it.
Gay or not, military or not, enemy or not. A human life is precious. YOU are precious.
Life is fragile and special and too easily forgetten. How can you forsake a life simply
because he/she is gay.
OH WAIT.. you said HE all through your post. So you wouldn't mind getting into a sleeping
bag with a lesbian.. right. Because that wouldn't offend her at all having someone save her life.
I bet she'd rather die than have a straight man in her sleeping bag.
Sounds stupid.. cause it is. If anyone is that ignorant not to save a life of another simply because
they are gay, then that person is very weak minded.
I've served 12 years with the combat arms AND with gays. There are NO problems in the showers.
They already realize you are uncomfortable so why do you think they would hit on you?
Britney Spears said:
Britney - we know fry isn't the best with his words. I'm sure his tone isn't as we might read it. Still, he might want
to trim his posts a bit...
I'm not a homophobe, and there was no ignorance in my post... I think for most, the issue of homosexuality is a morals issue. But, as Trinity has pm'ed me a while ago, prehaps down the road myself, like many others, may probably even make good friends out of em...
When you're 16, you think you know it all, but then when you're 20, you look back and say, man what an ass I was back then. Then when you're 25 you look back at 20, and so on. I think the same goes for a lot of us on the board when we comment on this issue. <-- (Trinity's writing once again, lol)
Some of us may be totally against everything, but may come to realize a few things and learn a few things down the road.
and Britney Spears,
That post wasn't homophobic, nor ignorance. The only thing that you may not have liked, was the fact that I think children adopted by gay or lesbian couples would lead a tough social life, not how they're raised, but by how some of their peers would treat them.
It's exhausting trying to explain myself, lol.
When you're 16, you think you know it all, but then when you're 20, you look back and say, man what an ass I was back then. Then when you're 25 you look back at 20, and so on. I think the same goes for a lot of us on the board when we comment on this issue. <-- (Trinity's writing once again, lol)
Some of us may be totally against everything, but may come to realize a few things and learn a few things down the road.
and Britney Spears,
That post wasn't homophobic, nor ignorance. The only thing that you may not have liked, was the fact that I think children adopted by gay or lesbian couples would lead a tough social life, not how they're raised, but by how some of their peers would treat them.
It's exhausting trying to explain myself, lol.
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For all the guys worried about being in a shower with gay guys; have any of you been to a public gym? I go to the Y here in St.John's and I know there are gay guys that go there. They shower when I do, they go to the sauna when I do, and they lift the same weights as I do. I've never had a problem. I've never seen a gay guy chasing another guy around the gym drooling all over the place, I do see lots of guys with their tongues hanging out over some girl, chasing them around like little puppies! Homosexuality is part of our society, I think it has to be accepted, grudgingly or not. It's just another think that humans do, if you don't accept it, that doesn't make it wrong. Just let people be people. Also the gay pride parades etc, it is unfortunate when a couple of idiots make it bad for everybody, I'm sure that like anything it is a very small percentage.
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