Liberal Minority Government 2019 - ????

[stellarpanther]

Absolutely. Like I said Trudeau could get away with murder and his voters would feign just enough shock to not draw criticism then like their leader they would "move on".

You have my word that if Trudeau is convicted of a crime, I will not vote Liberal if he is still the leader of the party.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

In 2015 under the Conservative government, from your source, Canada was rated:

2nd best country;
2nd for citizenship; and
1st for quality of life.

That's after 9 years of a conservative government.

So not exactly a LPC victory there.

The extreme left and right wings of Canadian politics are the outside edges of the two yellow lines in the middle of the road.

That is a major contributor to our success.

Every election we have to choose between competent and boring, or boring and competent.  Such a difficult choice...#therestoftheworldwantsourproblems

 

[Jarnhamar]

You have my word that if Trudeau is convicted of a crime, I will not vote Liberal if he is still the leader of the party.

You mean you're not still considering Erin O'Toole if he wins?

Either way I think you're in luck because our government appears to have set up the rules in such a way that ethical violations (intimidation, accepting gifts, coercing and such) are slaps on the wrist and not really criminal acts.


When Pierre Poilievre asked Justin Trudeau if he read the rules and laws on ethics after his 2nd ethical violation, contrary to standard government operating procedure of NOT answering questions, the Prime Minister surprisingly straight up admitted to reading the rules. It looked like he was trying to suppress a smirk.
The unspoken question of course being why did he not recuse himself if he read the rules. Answer being either he's too stupid to comprehend the rules, or he just doesn't care because he knows people will vote for him anyways. Calculated risk.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The extreme left and right wings of Canadian politics are the outside edges of the two yellow lines in the middle of the road.

That is a major contributor to our success.

Every election we have to chose between competent and boring, or boring and competent.  Such a difficult choice...#therestoftheworldwantsourproblems

We desperately need a party in the center.

 

[stellarpanther]

You mean you're not still considering Erin O'Toole if he wins?

I defiantly will strongly consider them if O'Toole wins but I have a gut feeling that it will be Mackay.  In my opinion, he's as bad as the group I'd like to see retire from politics.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The extreme left and right wings of Canadian politics are the outside edges of the two yellow lines in the middle of the road.

I bow to your wisdom.

:bowdown:

 

[OldSolduer]

I defiantly will strongly consider them if O'Toole wins but I have a gut feeling that it will be Mackay.  In my opinion, he's as bad as the group I'd like to see retire from politics.

Really. Three ethics violations including a single source contract to the WE people to disburse almost $ 1 BILLION of taxpayer money. Really?????

There are none so blind as those that do not wish to see.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If everyone refused to vote for any candidate or party which did something wrong, everyone would vote for no-one.

Everyone's in the same bucket.  Some rationalize for Trump, some for Biden, some for Scheer, some for Trudeau.

 

[stellarpanther]

Really. Three ethics violations including a single source contract to the WE people to disburse almost $ 1 BILLION of taxpayer money. Really?????

There are none so blind as those that do not wish to see.

An accusation is just that, an accusation.  That's part of the problem these days when an accusation is treated the same as being guilty.  As far as I know, but please correct me if I'm wrong, the ethics commissioner only found Trudeau in violation of the ethics act for the SNC issue.  There was nothing else.  What are the other 2 the ethics commissioner found that he violated?
Would I be correct in assuming that if there is enough evidence that a person committed a crime, we should just skip the trial and just handout a sentence?

 

[YZT580]

all Peter did was borrow a helicopter and the opposition, particularly the NDP but the liberals as well, demanded his resignation for using military equipment for personal use.  That really doesn't compare with paying off your friends with an obscene amount of money, accepting free vacations (helicopter rides included) and propositioning a young reporter.  Compared to the liberals, Peter has a lot to learn about governing. 

 

[ballz]

An accusation is just that, an accusation.  That's part of the problem these days when an accusation is treated the same as being guilty.  As far as I know, but please correct me if I'm wrong, the ethics commissioner only found Trudeau in violation of the ethics act for the SNC issue.  There was nothing else.  What are the other 2 the ethics commissioner found that he violated?
Would I be correct in assuming that if there is enough evidence that a person committed a crime, we should just skip the trial and just handout a sentence?

He was found guilty for two items, the Aga Khan fiasco and SNC. It's pretty much a certainty he gets a third one on this case, because it's pretty black & white.

Morneau was found guilty for not disclosing his French villa, and he's also pretty much guaranteed at least one conviction related to WE.

No one is saying "guilty until proven innocent," but opinions aren't legal standards, the burden of proof for opinions is the balance of probabilities.

If there was a clear-as-day video of Justin Trudeau murdering someone but he got off on some weird legal technicality in court,, I sure hope you can understand why people would cast their vote knowing he murdered someone, not pretend he's innocent simply because it wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

So your insistence we should pretend he's innocent regarding WE is just ludicrous. We're not jurors weighing evidence to the legal standard of proof.

 

[stellarpanther]

I guess in the end people who do not support the Liberals will jump on anything they can.  I personally do not have a problem with anything they have done up to now.  If that means I support crime or corruption or whatever else, then I guess I do because for now, I still support the Liberals and Trudeau.  Recent surveys have shown that if an election was held tomorrow, the Liberals would win with a good chance at getting a majority.  If the Cons want to have a chance, I would suggest that they start talking about what they would do instead of spending all their camera time whining and attacking. 

 

[PuckChaser]

I guess in the end people who do not support the Liberals will jump on anything they can.  I personally do not have a problem with anything they have done up to now.  If that means I support crime or corruption or whatever else, then I guess I do because for now, I still support the Liberals and Trudeau.  Recent surveys have shown that if an election was held tomorrow, the Liberals would win with a good chance at getting a majority.  If the Cons want to have a chance, I would suggest that they start talking about what they would do instead of spending all their camera time whining and attacking.

The Conservatives don't want to target you. Your post makes it completely clear you're a partisan Liberal and nothing they do will change your vote. That's fine, btw. Everyone gets a vote that counts no more or less than any other individual in Canada. They'd be stupid to waste money trying to draw people with the same attitude away. They'll target the swing votes, who do actually think a federal government should have just a little bit of ethical conduct and are tired of being dragged into progressive hard-left politics.

Funny you should mention the polls. As much as we like to thumb our nose at the House of Commons, Question Period generates news headlines, which in turn influence people's ideas of the Government/Opposition. Its awfully convenient that Trudeau has suspended Parliament, but yet his polling numbers have dropped almost completely back to where they were when he suspended Parliament for "safety" reasons. Only the sunniest of polls have them in majority territory, a majority of them have them squarely back in minority zone with only 4 more seats on average than they won in the 2019 election. https://338canada.com/ They're also polling against an interim leader of the Opposition and an ineffective NDP.

No one wants an election now, and it actually works into the favour of the Conservatives to wait. Let the Ethics Commissioner declare another broken law, and let the RCMP/OPP work on a breach of trust investigation. The new Conservative leader will let those hammers fall and trigger non-confidence based on them. Then you can go ahead and pretend they don't matter while the rest of us who hate corruption vote against them.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=stellarpanther] If that means I support crime or corruption or whatever else, then I guess I do
[/quote]

Something to be proud of for sure.

 

[stellarpanther]

The Conservatives don't want to target you. Your post makes it completely clear you're a partisan Liberal and nothing they do will change your vote. That's fine, btw. Everyone gets a vote that counts no more or less than any other individual in Canada. They'd be stupid to waste money trying to draw people with the same attitude away. They'll target the swing votes, who do actually think a federal government should have just a little bit of ethical conduct and are tired of being dragged into progressive hard-left politics.

Funny you should mention the polls. As much as we like to thumb our nose at the House of Commons, Question Period generates news headlines, which in turn influence people's ideas of the Government/Opposition. Its awfully convenient that Trudeau has suspended Parliament, but yet his polling numbers have dropped almost completely back to where they were when he suspended Parliament for "safety" reasons. Only the sunniest of polls have them in majority territory, a majority of them have them squarely back in minority zone with only 4 more seats on average than they won in the 2019 election. https://338canada.com/ They're also polling against an interim leader of the Opposition and an ineffective NDP.

No one wants an election now, and it actually works into the favour of the Conservatives to wait. Let the Ethics Commissioner declare another broken law, and let the RCMP/OPP work on a breach of trust investigation. The new Conservative leader will let those hammers fall and trigger non-confidence based on them. Then you can go ahead and pretend they don't matter while the rest of us who hate corruption vote against them.

Well first you'd better hope the other party's go along with the non-confidence vote.  The other party's would rather the Liberals be in power instead of the Conservatives any day.  If you think the Cons are any better as far as ethical violations, you are fooling yourself.  Did you read the earlier post reminding us of MacKay's helicopter ride.  What the Cons are best at, much more than any other party by far is being a bunch of hypocrites.

 

[stellarpanther]

Something to be proud of for sure.

Whatever...  :not-again:

 

[PuckChaser]

Well first you'd better hope the other party's go along with the non-confidence vote.  The other party's would rather the Liberals be in power instead of the Conservatives any day.  If you think the Cons are any better as far as ethical violations, you are fooling yourself.  Did you read the earlier post reminding us of MacKay's helicopter ride.  What the Cons are best at, much more than any other party by far is being a bunch of hypocrites.

3 ethics violations to none, Conservatives are being shut out by the Liberals right now...

 

[ballz]

3 ethics violations to none, Conservatives are being shut out by the Liberals right now...

It's actually 4 (I think... clearly getting hard to keep track :stirpot

Dominic Leblanc got one as well when he was a Cabinet Minister in 2018 (Fisheries & Oceans). Contrary to SP's assertion that people will just jump over the Liberals for anything, that one was not a huge scandal because his wife had 60 first cousins and they were not close with that one, he had seen him 10 times in the previous 15 years at various family gatherings. People were suitably less outraged.

 

[Jarnhamar]

1. Feign a non-partisan position.
2. Downplay unethical/rule breaking/criminal behavior, pass it off as not a big deal.
3. Misconstrue facts and numbers.
4. Turn conversation around to butwhataboutconservatives.
5. Repeat step 4 until the discussion is effectively sidelined.

 

[PMedMoe]

3 ethics violations to none, Conservatives are being shut out by the Liberals right now...

Are any of these ethics violations?

https://thinkpol.ca/2019/10/20/robocalls-ethics-violations-scheer-scandals/

https://www.thestar.com/news/federal-election/2015/08/14/a-conservative-collection-of-harper-government-scandals.html

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/10/Harper-Abuses-of-Power-Final/