Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[Czech_pivo]

Guys - let it go.
We are all on the same team in the end. We want Canada and Canadians to succeed and move forward as a country.

 

[ArmyRick]

And what do I find in 2022 in your pity me long winded good bye post?

With over 5000 posts I predict he will be back in 3....2.....1.....Next Election Cycle!

And look! You show up in time for elections/by elections

ince it appears that Humphrey Bogart wants Russian bots in and me out, I will oblige them and let myself be banned once and for all.

This post likely wont be up long, so to those who will see it, I must say, posting with all of you for the past dozen years has been fun. Alas, Putin ruins many a good thing and my time here has come to an end. To those who didn't want my left leaning stance on things out of here, congratulations, you wont any longer. To the good many who have sent me PMs of support, I hope you speak up in my absence from the forum.

I wish you all the best in whatever stage you are in life and I will regret I wont be around to suffer a CPC government as many of you have suffered a LPC one. Just trust I probably wont like.

This is you in 2022. I wonder if you changed much. Yes, I get very deeply involved but I can concede points and realize when others have made valid points. Maybe you need to start doing the same and stop thinking everything you post is gospel.

 

[Altair]

And what do I find in 2022 in your pity me long winded good bye post?

And look! You show up in time for elections/by elections


This is you in 2022. I wonder if you changed much. Yes, I get very deeply involved but I can concede points and realize when others have made valid points. Maybe you need to start doing the same and stop thinking everything you post is gospel.

 

[CBH99]

The CPC and those who support them have two choices going forward.

Stiff upper lip, chin up, accept that bad things have happened, and move forward determined to not let that define them.

Or they can whine and moan about it for the next 3 years the way losers whine and moan about losing at poker.

One path is serious. Another is infantile.

If I take a big step back from Canadian politics & look at it with a macro lens...I would still have the same concerns & questions though

...

Let me balance out my position here and say that not EVERYTHING the Liberals have done over the last 11 years has been bad.

(Although I can't think of anything positive during the Trudeau/Freeland years, but that's probably just a mental block on my end. Anybody got anything for this?)

And as much as it actually surprizes me to say this - they seem to be taking defence seriously.

A solid commitment to 88 fighters instead of 65. New fleets of P-8's, CC-330 Huskys. Have kept the NSS on track & producing ships. New rifles.

Plus all of the non-sexy but important stuff that having a healthy budget allows militaries to buy.

...

As for trade, it's important for Canada to expand our trading relationships in real ways, and not be completely dependent on just one foreign market.

Especially when that market is undeniably going to experience a reset in the near future, and most likely a currency conversion.

(A reset that might very well be bloody and violent, and that if nothing else may isolate America economically for a few years as it converts to it's new currency & the systems adapt to accept that new currency)


Unfortunately the next red hot economy that we could really benefit from having free access to, also comes with some real political and security perils with it.

But as long as our government negotiates well on our behalf, and stands firm on some key security issues & key food quality standards, Canada could benefit from our new trading relationship with China.


So in taking my personal views out of the equation - I can admit that the Liberals have done well on some files, sure


...


But if looking at the Canadian political landscape as a whole, and trying to remain as objective as I can, I still have some real concerns.

- I don't think stiff upper lip + chin up necessarily equates to 'taking the serious path'

(People can hold a stiff upper lip and keep their chins up while their leaders walk them off a plank - the two aren't mutually exclusive)

- And I don't think bitching & moaning necessarily equates to 'being infantile'

(Although I do agree it doesn't help much!)



I think it's entirely reasonable, and maybe even morally prudent, for people to bitch & moan about current government policies that are clearly intended to not benefit them. (Especially when they are the ones funding everything!)

Especially when they wake up one day to find that the very institution that is supposed to do it for them has been rendered powerless. (And by institution I am referring to the official opposition.)



Carney was already Prime Minister of a minority government. Aka a government that needs to behave itself, work towards the benefit of the citizenry as a whole, and conduct itself in a manner the citizenry approves of.

He didn't need any floor crossers to make that happen. It already existed, and he was already 'the boss' in charge of it.


The only reason he needed some MP's to cross the floor was because he wanted a majority government.

And the only reason he wanted to form a majority government was so he could push/execute on the LPC's agenda without the annoying, pestering inconvenience of an official opposition...



In my experience so far in life, anytime a large institution that runs on public money & public trust (the government) wants fewer checks & balances, less transparency, and less accountability - it's usually a bad sign.

(And I apply that to any & all political parties across the spectrum - not just the LPC. I only refer to the LPC specifically because they are the party in power, and have been for more than a decade)

 

[Altair]

If I take a big step back from Canadian politics & look at it with a macro lens...I would still have the same concerns & questions though

Hey, a honest attempt at genuine political discussion in good faith. Appreciated

...

Let me balance out my position here and say that not EVERYTHING the Liberals have done over the last 11 years has been bad.

And I would say not everything has been good.

(Although I can't think of anything positive during the Trudeau/Freeland years, but that's probably just a mental block on my end. Anybody got anything for this?)

Renegotiation of CUSMA. As we can see now, that could have easily gone sideways.

Got the trade deal over the finish line with the Europeans. Although Harper did a lot of work on the file as well

Trans mountain. Regardless of how that eventually got over the finish line, we are really happy to have that right now.

Senate composition. While this may not last, it's certainly better than the system of old.

And as much as it actually surprizes me to say this - they seem to be taking defence seriously.

A solid commitment to 88 fighters instead of 65. New fleets of P-8's, CC-330 Huskys. Have kept the NSS on track & producing ships. New rifles.

Plus all of the non-sexy but important stuff that having a healthy budget allows militaries to buy.

Carney has been decent on the defense file. And it seems he's not just throwing money at it, he seems to have a plan.

...

As for trade, it's important for Canada to expand our trading relationships in real ways, and not be completely dependent on just one foreign market.

Especially when that market is undeniably going to experience a reset in the near future, and most likely a currency conversion.

(A reset that might very well be bloody and violent, and that if nothing else may isolate America economically for a few years as it converts to it's new currency & the systems adapt to accept that new currency)

100 percent right.

And he's doing it the right way and the right way takes time. But as an aside, he seems to have seized leadership of the CPTPP.

Unfortunately the next red hot economy that we could really benefit from having free access to, also comes with some real political and security perils with it.

But as long as our government negotiates well on our behalf, and stands firm on some key security issues & key food quality standards, Canada could benefit from our new trading relationship with China.

Carney is doing his best, I think to get trade deals done. But again, it takes time, but he had to start somewhere and he has.

So in taking my personal views out of the equation - I can admit that the Liberals have done well on some files, sure


...


But if looking at the Canadian political landscape as a whole, and trying to remain as objective as I can, I still have some real concerns.

- I don't think stiff upper lip + chin up necessarily equates to 'taking the serious path'

(People can hold a stiff upper lip and keep their chins up while their leaders walk them off a plank - the two aren't mutually exclusive)

The NDP lost a MP. Do you see them moaning and groaning about it? They accepted it, moved right on.

- And I don't think bitching & moaning necessarily equates to 'being infantile'

(Although I do agree it doesn't help much!)

If you're going to act like a group of whiny losers, people are going to treat you like a bunch of whiny losers.

I think it's entirely reasonable, and maybe even morally prudent, for people to bitch & moan about current government policies that are clearly intended to not benefit them. (Especially when they are the ones funding everything!)

Policies, sure. As long as it's valid criticism and not criticism for criticisms sake.

Especially when they wake up one day to find that the very institution that is supposed to do it for them has been rendered powerless. (And by institution I am referring to the official opposition.)

If you want to say that majority governments render the opposition powerless, then we need to have a conversation about the Westminster system.

That's just how the system works.

Carney was already Prime Minister of a minority government. Aka a government that needs to behave itself, work towards the benefit of the citizenry as a whole, and conduct itself in a manner the citizenry approves of.

He didn't need any floor crossers to make that happen. It already existed, and he was already 'the boss' in charge of it.


The only reason he needed some MP's to cross the floor was because he wanted a majority government.

If the opposition was jamming things up and he was spending too much time trying to figure out how to navigate Parliament as opposed to getting his agenda moving, it makes 100 percent sense to gun for a majority.

And the only reason he wanted to form a majority government was so he could push/execute on the LPC's agenda without the annoying, pestering inconvenience of an official opposition...

Sometimes things need to move and fast and not be jammed up in committees.

In my experience so far in life, anytime a large institution that runs on public money & public trust (the government) wants fewer checks & balances, less transparency, and less accountability - it's usually a bad sign.

(And I apply that to any & all political parties across the spectrum - not just the LPC. I only refer to the LPC specifically because they are the party in power, and have been for more than a decade)

Yet nobody says this at the provincial level where premiers are making the provinces into their own personal little fiefdoms.

Just saying.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Bringing it back to politics; Poilievre bad is one plausible reason, but the multitude of other reasons seemed purposefully ignored.

Poilievre isn't bad. He's the impetus for a lot of what Carney and the LPC have done. He should be applauded for his work, although bias wont let some here do that, his face is too punchable apparently.

The game changed and this is a new version he is not great at. He needs to step aside and let the party find its new leader.

Also the Yankees swept Boston last night, in Fenway. Its a good day

 

[ytz]

Yet nobody says this at the provincial level where premiers are making the provinces into their own personal little fiefdoms.

As an Ontarian, I feel this.....

 

[Czech_pivo]

Poilievre isn't bad. He's the impetus for a lot of what Carney and the LPC have done. He should be applauded for his work, although bias wont let some here do that, his face is too punchable apparently.

The game changed and this is a new version he is not great at. He needs to step aside and let the party find its new leader.

Also the Yankees swept Boston last night, in Fenway. Its a good day

If your a Yankees fan, we can never be close friends., just saying….

 

[Halifax Tar]

If your a Yankees fan, we can never be close friends., just saying….

You might be surprised how ok with that I am.

 

[Czech_pivo]

You might be surprised how ok with that I am.

Now you've hurt my feelings.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Now you've hurt my feelings.

Again, you might be surprised how ok with that I am.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Senate composition. While this may not last, it's certainly better than the system of old.

You mean the ‘independents’ who vote Liberal on every topic? I wouldn’t say it is better than the previous system, I would say it is side by side with it.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

As an Ontarian, I feel this.....

Aaahhh! Just go fly a ki... Bombardier.

 

[ytz]

You mean the ‘independents’ who vote Liberal on every topic?

They were literally Liberals who had their memberships cancelled when the LPC wanted to push the idea of Senate reform or an independent Senate.

If you want non-partisan Senators, you'll need to create a non-partisan appointment process.

 

[Eaglelord17]

They were literally Liberals who had their memberships cancelled when the LPC wanted to push the idea of Senate reform or an independent Senate.

If you want non-partisan Senators, you'll need to create a non-partisan appointment process.

Some of them. Some of them were appointed after the LPC no longer allowed senate members to be LPC, but they all still vote that way.

Lots of ways to do senate reform, the question is whether the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Poilievre isn't bad. He's the impetus for a lot of what Carney and the LPC have done. He should be applauded for his work, although bias wont let some here do that, his face is too punchable apparently.

The game changed and this is a new version he is not great at. He needs to step aside and let the party find its new leader.

Also the Yankees swept Boston last night, in Fenway. Its a good day

PPs own biases won't even let him take credit for it or work with them on points where there is common ground, he's just stuck in inherently oppositional mode, and just complains they don't go far enough, or someone did it wrong, when they basically implemented a CPC proposal.

It would be nice for them to get someone else, but while Carney is there doing a lot of actual conservative things like an old school Tory, and dragging the LPC along for the ride, they are getting redundant, outside of some very vocal portions of the party.