Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[tomydoom]

Convince me in less than 6-8 sentences as to why Canada should continue to have an upper governmental body?

Go!

The senate in its current form is ineffective, but in theory an elected senate being regionally representative rather than representation by population would constrain the ability of the larger provinces to drive the ship. I believe there are several on this site that bemoan Ontario’s ability to run the country for its benefit and an effective upper house would counterbalance that.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The senate in its current form is ineffective, but in theory an elected senate being regionally representative rather than representation by population would constrain the ability of the larger provinces to drive the ship. I believe there are several on this site that bemoan Ontario’s ability to run the country for its benefit and an effective upper house would counterbalance that.

Is your proposal one similar to the US, where each state has 2 Senators, regardless of its population? This would only continue to benefit those provinces, such as PEI, that already is 'over-represented' in the H of C. Others, NB, NS and NL possibly could be in similar situations.

If the upper chamber is going to continue to be a toothless tiger, then I'd rather follow New Zealand, Sweden, Denmark and such that have abolished their upper chambers.

 

[dapaterson]

Is your proposal one similar to the US, where each state has 2 Senators, regardless of its population? This would only continue to benefit those provinces, such as PEI, that already is 'over-represented' in the H of C. Others, NB, NS and NL possibly could be in similar situations.

If the upper chamber is going to continue to be a toothless tiger, then I'd rather follow New Zealand, Sweden, Denmark and such that have abolished their upper chambers.

Giving PEI two senators would be a 50% reduction. And since no province can have fewer seats in the HoC than the Senate, it would also cut their HoC representation in half.

TL;DR don't threaten me with a good time.

 

[QV]

Giving PEI two senators would be a 50% reduction. And since no province can have fewer seats in the HoC than the Senate, it would also cut their HoC representation in half.

TL;DR don't threaten me with a good time.

And somehow NB and NS each have 10

 

[Halifax Tar]

Giving PEI two senators would be a 50% reduction. And since no province can have fewer seats in the HoC than the Senate, it would also cut their HoC representation in half.

TL;DR don't threaten me with a good time.

Really NB, NS and PEI should be force amalgamated into one province.

Having these little 3, little, poor as shit Atlantic fiefdoms is just silly.

 

[dapaterson]

Really NB, NS and PEI should be force amalgamated into one province.

Having these little 3, little, poor as shit Atlantic fiefdoms is just silly.

The Greater Irving Co-Prosperity Sphere?

And what about NL?

 

[tomydoom]

Is your proposal one similar to the US, where each state has 2 Senators, regardless of its population? This would only continue to benefit those provinces, such as PEI, that already is 'over-represented' in the H of C. Others, NB, NS and NL possibly could be in similar situations.

If the upper chamber is going to continue to be a toothless tiger, then I'd rather follow New Zealand, Sweden, Denmark and such that have abolished their upper chambers.

I wouldn’t change the distribution of senators, I would merely make them elected. Presumably an elected Senate would exercise the authority the constitution gives it. Abolishing the senate outright would ensure that power forever remains in Ontario.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The Greater Irving Co-Prosperity Sphere?

Why not embrace reality eh ? Lol

And what about NL?

Solid question... I see NFLD as different from the other Atlantic provinces, but I'm not married to that.

 

[tomydoom]

Really NB, NS and PEI should be force amalgamated into one province.

Having these little 3, little, poor as shit Atlantic fiefdoms is just silly.

You could make the same argument for Manitoba and Saskatchewan, they also have relatively tiny population. Relative to Ontario, every province is tiny, perhaps one could make an argument to do away with provinces altogether.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You could make the same argument for Manitoba and Saskatchewan, they also have relatively tiny population. Relative to Ontario, every province is tiny,

If you say so.

I'm staying in my lane.

 

[Altair]

6 words or less to keep the senate?

Nobody wants to touch the Constitution.

 

[YZT580]

I wouldn’t change the distribution of senators, I would merely make them elected. Presumably an elected Senate would exercise the authority the constitution gives it. Abolishing the senate outright would ensure that power forever remains in Ontario.

like Alberta tried to do?

 

[lenaitch]

If you've ever been to any provincial or federal government secession they are mostly empty. Cameras are strategically placed to make it look like more are there than really are there.

I was at a secession in Victoria where there was 6 total out of the 93 MPPs.

This isn’t just a senate problem, this is a Canadian government problem.

And the members that are there are clustered because they know there are fixed camera points.

It is a Canadian government problem but I'm not sure it is uniquely ours.

6 words or less to keep the senate?

Nobody wants to touch the Constitution.

This.

All of these fun suggestions regarding the Senate, provinces, etc. would require a Constitutional Conference and we know how well they go.

You could make the same argument for Manitoba and Saskatchewan, they also have relatively tiny population. Relative to Ontario, every province is tiny, perhaps one could make an argument to do away with provinces altogether.

If you are looking for national sclerosis, having no subnational layer between the federal government and municipalities (unless you want to toss them too), that would be the way to do it.

 

[lenaitch]

IMHO on today's technological world we should be embracing more direct democracy and less of this medieval representative form.

I've often seen the Swiss model cited as an example of this, but have no idea how it functions. Direct democracy is great, so long as everyone has direct access, and I'm not so sure everyone does in a country like ours. I remember back in the spring spending several hours creating both a Service Canada and CRA accounts for myself and the missus. I had to do it because apparently the ones I had previously created were no longer valid. Today, it took me about 15 minutes just to sign into my CRA account. I'm no techy but get that a site that is potentially used by about 27Mn voters, and not accessible to anybody else, needs layers of security and complexity that will have many people just throwing their hands up and say screw it.

Is direct democracy actual votes on an bill or topic, or just a referendum to gauge public sentiment? Do we get to vote on everything the government wants to do, or just 'big stuff'? Given the level of public engagement, do you honestly think that the public would vote for $XXBn for submarines, ships or planes when they look at their bills for food and fuel? This isn't a poll that asks if you think Canada should have a robust military, this is dollars and sense questions, final answer, and don't expect the public to understand government accounting when 40-year costs are factored in. How do you distill complex topics or proposals down to a point where Mike from Canmore can make an informed decision?

 

[PrairieFella]

The question is - does Carney start to eat any of PP's lunch in Alberta and Saskatchewan if shovels go into the ground for the new pipelines (oil and nat gas), new SMR's using uranium and more potash being developed/shipped. That's the real question.

An expanded naval footprint on the EC and the WC, along with a larger CAF presence in NB, will lock up the Maritimes for the Libs. Throw in Davie building CDC's and some sort of SAAB or GCAP footprint in QC and that might hold QC for them. The wild card will be Ontario - what can Carney do to the hold the line in Ontario.........keep the auto sector 'as is' and throw in some SMR's, mining and expanded manufacturing for the CAF and he'll be golden.

Honestly I think most would rather jump in a wood chipper. Its a weird identitarian thing at this point. Which is odd considering a lot of the old head farmers at least in the Eastern prairies are hard NDP in the CCF vein and kinda homeless since Jack Layton passed.

 

[PrairieFella]

You could make the same argument for Manitoba and Saskatchewan, they also have relatively tiny population. Relative to Ontario, every province is tiny, perhaps one could make an argument to do away with provinces altogether.

Winnipeg governing the prairies as God intended 150 years ago. Excellent.

As long we get to annex Lake of the Woods too, its basically all Tobans anyways

 

[PrairieFella]

.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I've often seen the Swiss model cited as an example of this, but have no idea how it functions. Direct democracy is great, so long as everyone has direct access, and I'm not so sure everyone does in a country like ours. I remember back in the spring spending several hours creating both a Service Canada and CRA accounts for myself and the missus. I had to do it because apparently the ones I had previously created were no longer valid. Today, it took me about 15 minutes just to sign into my CRA account. I'm no techy but get that a site that is potentially used by about 27Mn voters, and not accessible to anybody else, needs layers of security and complexity that will have many people just throwing their hands up and say screw it.

Is direct democracy actual votes on an bill or topic, or just a referendum to gauge public sentiment? Do we get to vote on everything the government wants to do, or just 'big stuff'? Given the level of public engagement, do you honestly think that the public would vote for $XXBn for submarines, ships or planes when they look at their bills for food and fuel? This isn't a poll that asks if you think Canada should have a robust military, this is dollars and sense questions, final answer, and don't expect the public to understand government accounting when 40-year costs are factored in. How do you distill complex topics or proposals down to a point where Mike from Canmore can make an informed decision?

Quarterly referendums with the topics of the referendums clearly laid out months in advance so voters can do what research they wish on the topic. Could run them like a election to prevent fraud and access issues. The Swiss literally vote on the ability for the government to levy taxes every 5 years, that is the type of power the public has. If you gain enough signatures on any topic it can be part of the referendum, this includes striking down laws.

Generally in Switzerland the government recommends a path for voters which generally if a member of the public is uninformed they will vote that way.

Everyone keeps saying the general public is too stupid to make the right choices, the same arguments made to prevent universal suffrage in the first place, yet you have to ask yourself is our current political class really doing that great a job?

Arguing whether the public will make the right choice on national defence when our current governmental system hasn’t for longer than I have been alive tells you all I need to know.

As to distilling the topics, they manage to do it for the politicians who don’t necessarily have any background on the topics they deal with. If they can do it for them they can do it for the public.

 

[Altair]

This.

All of these fun suggestions regarding the Senate, provinces, etc. would require a Constitutional Conference and we know how well they go.

Best way to break up Canada? Try to change the constitution.

With that in mind,keeping around a bunch of senators who do next to nothing doesn't seem half bad.

Also, to change the constitution, you need 7 provinces that represent 50 percent of the Canadian population.

The Provinces with the most senators are Quebec and Ontario. They likely wont settle for less. that right there is 61 percent of the canadian population.

NB NS NFLD and PEI are overrepresented. They wont want less.

Then you have the west, who wont settle for senate reform without wanting more as per their growing populations.

So already you are starting with 6 provinces and over 60 percent of the population probably saying hell no to senate reform.

It's a fun thing to talk about, I guess, but it's up there with talking about the leafs winning the cup and santa claus.