Logistic Vehicle Modernization Project - Replacing everything from LUVW to SHLVW

[Kirkhill]

There's only so long you can fix kit. The OEM parts are no longer available for the LUVW, sure we can get refurbished parts but then that's a game of diminishing returns.

An excellent reason, surely, to buy new Jeeps and F250s every 5 years then?

 

[daftandbarmy]

And how are Troop and Squadron tactics to be mastered without kit?

Just sayin'

 

[PrairieFella]

An excellent reason, surely, to buy new Jeeps and F250s every 5 years then?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for replacement kit over 20 years after we got the LUVW and the LUVW Milcot.

 

[PrairieFella]

Just sayin'

Better than walking lol

 

[daftandbarmy]

Better than walking lol

You could take the opportunity to reintroduce the Zulu's Impi tactics to the battlefield, running faster over 60 miles of broken ground than a horse can run of course

 

[Brad Sallows]

And how are Troop and Squadron tactics to be mastered without kit?

I don't know, but that's not combined arms. My point is that "combined arms" isn't a factor that needs to be included in the estimate right now.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There was a time in the 1930s where weapons were simple and tactics yet to be developed where using ersatz tanks had a benefit. That situation is long gone. Tactics still play a part but mostly its getting people to become proficient handling the complex systems that they now have - from manoeuvring the tank to using the weapons control system to the communications systems etc. In short you need to learn on the actual kit you will fight (or something damn close to it) in order to become proficient. IMHO, that's doable even for reservists - vis the US ARNG - but certainly not the way we are.

Its equally problematic for ARes logistics trades who have no field serviceable equipment to train on and then have no opportunity to put their training to practical use in a simulated operational situation. At best a handful of them experience the operation of a static base NSE.

Given the amount of time it takes to train drivers and operators and the amount it takes to prepare battalions, brigades, and divisions, I suppose ersatz kit could still cover the bulk of the training.

 

[suffolkowner]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794431559467995302

the final contenders for the LUV project

• AM General• Armatec • Oshkosh• Roshel


• 1500-1850 Light Utility Vehicles• 400-450 COTS vehicles Along with this, LUV also intends to procure somewhere between 300-500 trailers

Note from the article that it's to be a bifurcates buy, replacing parts of the fleet with civilian pattern vehicles (not militarized) starting next year.

so 400 + COTS vehicles but still from the above contenders?
with a follow on 1500+ vehicles from the same contenders?

There's only so long you can fix kit. The OEM parts are no longer available for the LUVW, sure we can get refurbished parts but then that's a game of diminishing returns.

you cant get parts for Chevy 2500's? or the Gwagens?

 

[Kirkhill]

You could take the opportunity to reintroduce the Zulu's Impi tactics to the battlefield, running faster over 60 miles of broken ground than a horse can run of course

View attachment 87837

Needed - new Canadian supplier of BC Bud

For example, warriors were given a cannabis (marijuana)-based snuff to take during battle. Analysis of the snuff has revealed that it contained extremely high levels of THC, a powerful hallucinogen, and yet no detectable levels of the chemicals that cause the sedative effects of marijuana.Apr 21, 2023

Day of the Zulu ~ Clues and Evidence | Secrets of the Dead | PBS

On January 22, 1879 -- the legendary "Day of the Zulu," when more than twenty thousand Zulu warriors nearly wiped out the forces of the invading British

www.pbs.org

 

[FJAG]

Given the amount of time it takes to train drivers and operators and the amount it takes to prepare battalions, brigades, and divisions, I suppose ersatz kit could still cover the bulk of the training.

Not sure if by saying "the amount it takes to prepare battalions etc" means obtaining the kit or training the more senior leaders in battalion and above tactics and logistics.

If the former, I agree. If the actual kit isn't there then train on simulators to the max or even ersatz kit if it isn't. If the latter then my view is both need to be done concurrently. Senior leaders need to know their stuff before they are handed trained platoons and companies to work with. Senior leadership (coy comds and above) can and should train without troops while the troops train at coy and below.

 

[McG]

@PrairieFella, you put you whole reply in a quote box so it looks like I wrote it.

So, your assertion that this is an especially dark day for the PRes is based on the assumption that PRes GWagon will be replaced by the new SMP? Do we know that will be the case? The article implies the SMP variant will be armoured. Despite dumping TAPV on PRes because it was not wanted by the intended users, we seem to be against buying armour for reserves.

 

[McG]

you cant get parts for Chevy 2500's? or the Gwagens?

Every year, OEMs update the model. New parts are introduced, and old parts stop being manufactured about 8 after the last time they were installed on an assembly line. So 10 years after you buy a vehicle, there will be parts that are no longer available and 20 years after you buy a vehicle there will be a lot of parts that are unavailable. This is compounded by the even the MilCOTS having military components which never had a large civilian market to drive production demand.

 

[suffolkowner]

Every year, OEMs update the model. New parts are introduced, and old parts stop being manufactured about 8 after the last time they were installed on an assembly line. So 10 years after you buy a vehicle, there will be parts that are no longer available and 20 years after you buy a vehicle there will be a lot of parts that are unavailable. This is compounded by the even the MilCOTS having military components which never had a large civilian market to drive production demand.

just seems a little strange as i have a dodge and a chevy that are getting serious work done and there really arent any issues. Now they are obviously 3/4 tons and after market parts but still. Is the military not allowed to use after market parts?

 

[PuckChaser]

@PrairieFella, you put you whole reply in a quote box so it looks like I wrote it.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Every year, OEMs update the model. New parts are introduced, and old parts stop being manufactured about 8 after the last time they were installed on an assembly line. So 10 years after you buy a vehicle, there will be parts that are no longer available and 20 years after you buy a vehicle there will be a lot of parts that are unavailable. This is compounded by the even the MilCOTS having military components which never had a large civilian market to drive production demand.

Meanwhile I am buying newly made parts for my 1968 Landrover, both genuine and aftermarket.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

You could equip the Reserve units around the Roshnel plant with Senators, give their older vehicles to units on the east and Westcoast. The units with the Senators become "Trial units" that take the lessons learned and adapt them to the vehicles and help write CAF policy on them.

 

[PrairieFella]

so 400 + COTS vehicles but still from the above contenders?
with a follow on 1500+ vehicles from the same contenders?

you cant get parts for Chevy 2500's? or the Gwagens?

Talk to the supply system, not me. This is what the article states and is corroborated from what I've heard from the Reg maintainers that duct tape our shit.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You could equip the Reserve units around the Roshnel plant with Senators, give their older vehicles to units on the east and Westcoast. The units with the Senators become "Trial units" that take the lessons learned and adapt them to the vehicles and help write CAF policy on them.

For the ARes, just make sure the bus contracts are in place.

Our most reliable prime mover was always a rent a bus

 

[Maxman1]

At least there isn't a suggestion to have Western Star build the Iveco LMV under license (because the last time they built an Iveco design went so well).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Does the LUVW actually need to be replaced?