Spencer100
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Same company.
Logistic Vehicle Modernization Project - Replacing everything from LUVW to SHLVW
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Colin Parkinson
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No thank you expensive toy with many unobtainable parts. OK for SOF types that can write off stuff and buy more.
For the armoured reserves the open armed Jeep would be a good draw to bring people in and let them learn the older recce skills which likely have a good value considering a conflict like Ukraine where nobody is entirely sure where the frontline currently is. Again a clearcut mission they can train for with the equipment they need, that is what is required to maintain numbers, interests and commitment.
For the armoured reserves the open armed Jeep would be a good draw to bring people in and let them learn the older recce skills which likely have a good value considering a conflict like Ukraine where nobody is entirely sure where the frontline currently is. Again a clearcut mission they can train for with the equipment they need, that is what is required to maintain numbers, interests and commitment.
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So one unit is modeled on the Wrangler and the other unit uses Jeep engines....
Agreed Colin.
The SOF types are buying Shelby's original Mustangs when Mustangs would get the job done.
A hodge podge of parts from various suppliers, with custom manufactured connectors, assembled under a shade tree and with a couple thousand trial miles behind it. Vice something that has been coming off an assembly line for 75 years and was copied by Landrover which in turn was copied by Mercedes.
For those that were unaware the Landrover was built by an English farmer who ran his war surplus jeep into the dirt by 1948 (he used it as a tractor for plowing amongst other things). Being unable to acquire another jeep he modified what remained of his existing one with a British truck and tractor parts. The concept was picked up by Rover.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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with centre steering position no less and then later in the 60's Jeep built a version using Landrover drive train and frame with a production Jeep body, the Germans built a all steel Landrover for their borderguards unit.
I would be all for keeping the G-wagon and getting the open topped version for Armoured Reserve, it's basically a very good vehicle and a design that has long legs left into it. Not to mention you could also replace the LSVW with their 6 wheeled version. But the jeep would suffice over the current Milcot/rentals usage for the recce role.
I would be all for keeping the G-wagon and getting the open topped version for Armoured Reserve, it's basically a very good vehicle and a design that has long legs left into it. Not to mention you could also replace the LSVW with their 6 wheeled version. But the jeep would suffice over the current Milcot/rentals usage for the recce role.
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Colin P said:with centre steering position no less and then later in the 60's Jeep built a version using Landrover drive train and frame with a production Jeep body, the Germans built a all steel Landrover for their borderguards unit.
I would be all for keeping the G-wagon and getting the open topped version for Armoured Reserve, it's basically a very good vehicle and a design that has long legs left into it. Not to mention you could also replace the LSVW with their 6 wheeled version. But the jeep would suffice over the current Milcot/rentals usage for the recce role.
Damme! If I don't behold a 6-legged horse! >
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I have seen various proposals for building light vehicles (at this point in time very few mil spec vehicles resemble the classic jeep at all) up to MRAP-Light spec, usually on the Ford F-450 chassis. Popular Mechanics had a design concept in their magazine a few years ago, and Georgia Tech built a prototype also based on a large pickup truck frame:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/pm-designs-the-replacement-for-the-pentagons-joint-light-tactical-vehicle-6432935
http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/ultra.htm
Actually we are probably looking in the wrong direction with Jeep or Ford frames and power trains. Most of the places we might deploy will probably have local militias running around in Toyota Hilux or Land Cruiser variants.
Much of the inflated costs of military hardware seems to have little to do with the equipment at all; if we could streamline our logistics and management practices to match cutting edge companies like WalMart or Amazon.com then we could see reasonably priced equipment available in the numbers needed to actually equip all the forces.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/pm-designs-the-replacement-for-the-pentagons-joint-light-tactical-vehicle-6432935
http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/ultra.htm
Actually we are probably looking in the wrong direction with Jeep or Ford frames and power trains. Most of the places we might deploy will probably have local militias running around in Toyota Hilux or Land Cruiser variants.
Much of the inflated costs of military hardware seems to have little to do with the equipment at all; if we could streamline our logistics and management practices to match cutting edge companies like WalMart or Amazon.com then we could see reasonably priced equipment available in the numbers needed to actually equip all the forces.
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The Big three beg and compete for the contract(s) for police cars. It is big business.
With the recent innovations with engines and power trains. The Army might be wise to look into the Commericial North Ammerican market.
The Eco Boost Ford or my favourite (bought one) 3.0 eco Diesel Dodge. Imagine a truch that can pull 9200 lbs and empty do over 1300 kms on a 98 litre tank.
Can you say cost saving on a road move from Shilo to Wainwright, Pet to Gagetown or I heard of a Pet to Wainwright.
Put out the feelers and they will come.
Save the Military totla spec for overseas. Notice the rebels all have Toyota pick ups with 50s mounted in the bed (wonder if they use a bed liner or spray in) Delivers just as much firepower.
With the recent innovations with engines and power trains. The Army might be wise to look into the Commericial North Ammerican market.
The Eco Boost Ford or my favourite (bought one) 3.0 eco Diesel Dodge. Imagine a truch that can pull 9200 lbs and empty do over 1300 kms on a 98 litre tank.
Can you say cost saving on a road move from Shilo to Wainwright, Pet to Gagetown or I heard of a Pet to Wainwright.
Put out the feelers and they will come.
Save the Military totla spec for overseas. Notice the rebels all have Toyota pick ups with 50s mounted in the bed (wonder if they use a bed liner or spray in) Delivers just as much firepower.
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Sadly, Cupper, there are already many troops who fit the part (literally, even if they barely fit in the hatch >)
One reason that traditional jeeps are no longer really viable military vehicles is the ever increasing amount of "stuff" soldiers are ordered to (or insist on) taking into the field. The HMMVW is far larger than the M 151 "Mutt" it replaced because it needed to be a 5/4 ton logistics truck (only later did it evolve into a fighting vehicle).
Even vehicles that can fit into helicopters (like the "Flyer" http://www.marvingroup.com/index.php/companies/flyer/products/new_product/) are actually rather substantial, more so once you add on the armour and stowage kit. The Flyer and many other military light vehicles also have cross country performance "out of the box" which few civilian 4X4's can match.
)One reason that traditional jeeps are no longer really viable military vehicles is the ever increasing amount of "stuff" soldiers are ordered to (or insist on) taking into the field. The HMMVW is far larger than the M 151 "Mutt" it replaced because it needed to be a 5/4 ton logistics truck (only later did it evolve into a fighting vehicle).
Even vehicles that can fit into helicopters (like the "Flyer" http://www.marvingroup.com/index.php/companies/flyer/products/new_product/) are actually rather substantial, more so once you add on the armour and stowage kit. The Flyer and many other military light vehicles also have cross country performance "out of the box" which few civilian 4X4's can match.
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If the reason for the ever expanding carrier is ever expanding girths and and ever expanding equipment requirements then maybe the time is ripe to instill some discipline. Issue smaller vehicles. The stuff that isn't immediately required goes into that rolling tool shed known as the CQ/SQ/BQ's vehicle(s). Once every year or so you can do what most/some of us do at home. Go through the tool shed and chuck out the stuff that hasn't been used in a while and is taking up space.
As to the nature of the vehicle: What do bullets and snowflakes have in common? They are both environmental artifacts that fly through the air. In Canada we regularly encounter snowflakes. We seldom encounter bullets. Mines are a virtual unknown. The RCMP does most of its patrolling in air conditioned passenger cars produced on regular assembly lines.
The first question you should be asking yourselves is: What can we achieve with civilian pattern kit?
Once that question is answered then you can start thinking about filling gaps in your capabilities with low production run equipment specially manufactured for military customers. For domestic ops a couple of dozen TAPVs held in each Divs vehicle stocks wouldn't be amiss. The BGS (BundesGrenzShutz) used this vehicle
Tell me that that is not the same as this
Just the thing you need for your next Oka or WTO party.
There is a need for a back-up force to back stop the RCMP when it is tied up. The RCAC(Reserves) in Jeeps could pick up some of the patrolling slack. It could add to domestic patrols. It could expand the patrol range deeper into the bush.
And when the Big Boys of the RCAC decide that they really need some additional help in dusty places - they will have a more fully competent body of troops available to them that they can train to their standards in the 6 to 12 month work-up period that seems to be the norm these days.
Edited because the first TAPV photo link died.
As to the nature of the vehicle: What do bullets and snowflakes have in common? They are both environmental artifacts that fly through the air. In Canada we regularly encounter snowflakes. We seldom encounter bullets. Mines are a virtual unknown. The RCMP does most of its patrolling in air conditioned passenger cars produced on regular assembly lines.
The first question you should be asking yourselves is: What can we achieve with civilian pattern kit?
Once that question is answered then you can start thinking about filling gaps in your capabilities with low production run equipment specially manufactured for military customers. For domestic ops a couple of dozen TAPVs held in each Divs vehicle stocks wouldn't be amiss. The BGS (BundesGrenzShutz) used this vehicle
Tell me that that is not the same as this
Just the thing you need for your next Oka or WTO party.
There is a need for a back-up force to back stop the RCMP when it is tied up. The RCAC(Reserves) in Jeeps could pick up some of the patrolling slack. It could add to domestic patrols. It could expand the patrol range deeper into the bush.
And when the Big Boys of the RCAC decide that they really need some additional help in dusty places - they will have a more fully competent body of troops available to them that they can train to their standards in the 6 to 12 month work-up period that seems to be the norm these days.
Edited because the first TAPV photo link died.
daftandbarmy
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Kirkhill said:If the reason for the ever expanding carrier is ever expanding girths and and ever expanding equipment requirements then maybe the time is ripe to instill some discipline. Issue smaller vehicles. The stuff that isn't immediately required goes into that rolling tool shed known as the CQ/SQ/BQ's vehicle(s). Once every year or so you can do whatmost/some of us do at home. Go through the tool shed and chuck out the stuff that hasn't been used in a while and is taking up space.
As to the nature of the vehicle: What do bullets and snowflakes have in common? They are both environmental artifacts that fly through the air. In Canada we regularly encounter snowflakes. We seldom encounter bullets. Mines are a virtual unknown. The RCMP does most of its patrolling in air conditioned passenger cars produced on regular assembly lines.
The first question you should be asking yourselves is: What can we achieve with civilian pattern kit?
Once that question is answered then you can start thinking about filling gaps in your capabilities with low production run equipment specially manufactured for military customers. For domestic ops a couple of dozen TAPVs held in each Divs vehicle stocks wouldn't be amiss. The BGS (BundesGrenzShutz) used this vehicle
Tell me that that is not the same as this
Just the thing you need for your next Oka or WTO party.
There is a need for a back-up force to back stop the RCMP when it is tied up. The RCAC(Reserves) in Jeeps could pick up some of the patrolling slack. It could add to domestic patrols. It could expand the patrol range deeper into the bush.
And when the Big Boys of the RCAC decide that they really need some additional help in dusty places - they will have a more fully competent body of troops available to them that they can train to their standards in the 6 to 12 month work-up period that seems to be the norm these days.
I agree. Go Unimog! http://www.neuerunimog.com/en/
Colin Parkinson
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The Unimog is the LSVW we should have gone for, would also make a great off-road recovery vehicle for all the smaller stuff.
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I disagree on open-top vehs, if only for protection from the elements for the dvr and internal components, and should the veh roll (hello G-wag...).
Otherwise, if the platform allows us to carry essential kit and do our jobs, I'm all for it. I fully recognize the need for cost-cutting, but let's not just look at something civi-side, say this will work! with glee in our eyes, and buy the bunch, without forethought to maintenance, trg, etc.
And that's a horrible shade of green...
Otherwise, if the platform allows us to carry essential kit and do our jobs, I'm all for it. I fully recognize the need for cost-cutting, but let's not just look at something civi-side, say this will work! with glee in our eyes, and buy the bunch, without forethought to maintenance, trg, etc.
And that's a horrible shade of green...
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Colin P said:
Agreed, but you have to remember the 'Time' that the decision was made and who formed the Government of the day: "Chevrolets; NOT Cadillacs". Now imagine them buying Army trucks with the Mercedes logo on the front. Wasn't going to happen.
GK .Dundas
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As I recall Mercedes sells a large commercial van that is also sold under the Dodge brand as well. So it might just be possible.George Wallace said:
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GK .Dundas said:
Yes they do now. Not back then. Since the purchase of the LSVW long ago, we have seen the purchase of Mercedes G Wagens. It is now a moot point.
daftandbarmy
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\
This Scaled-Down Armored Truck Could Be the Next Humvee
During the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Department of Defense figured out the Humvee—its multi-purpose troop transport vehicle, designed in the 1980s when everyone thought the US would be fighting the Soviets across Europe—was woefully ill-equipped to deal with the type of asymmetric warfare American soldiers faced in the Middle East.
Humvees, produced by contractor AM General, weren’t really designed as combat vehicles, and offer little protection to occupants against improvised explosive devices and rocket-propelled grenades. Since those proved to be major threats in Iraq and Afghanistan, the military hurriedly ordered armor upgrades that could be fitted to existing Humvees, but ruined its valuable off-road capabilities. It put more money into large, heavy, and expensive mine-resistant ambush protected (MRAP) vehicles, which are hugely successful at protecting occupants but too big for many mission profiles.
Now, with the war in Iraq over (sort of) and combat in Afghanistan winding down, the DoD can spend its time and money on a new, major acquisition: the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV), the machine that will replace the venerable but outdated Humvee.
One of the frontrunners going after the $9.4 billion contract to design and produce that replacement is the Wisconsin-based Oshkosh Corporation, which calls its vehicle the Light Combat Tactical All-Terrain Vehicle. The L-ATV (Oshkosh is fluent in acronym-obsessed military parlance) is the faster little brother to its popular MRAP, the M-ATV. “Future battlefields will have an unpredictable level of terrain and tactics and threats,” says John Bryant, senior vice president of defense programs for Oshkosh Defense. “Troops require an all-terrain vehicle that’s scalable, net-ready, that performs off road, and is highly reliable.”
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/the-next-humvee/
This Scaled-Down Armored Truck Could Be the Next Humvee
During the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Department of Defense figured out the Humvee—its multi-purpose troop transport vehicle, designed in the 1980s when everyone thought the US would be fighting the Soviets across Europe—was woefully ill-equipped to deal with the type of asymmetric warfare American soldiers faced in the Middle East.
Humvees, produced by contractor AM General, weren’t really designed as combat vehicles, and offer little protection to occupants against improvised explosive devices and rocket-propelled grenades. Since those proved to be major threats in Iraq and Afghanistan, the military hurriedly ordered armor upgrades that could be fitted to existing Humvees, but ruined its valuable off-road capabilities. It put more money into large, heavy, and expensive mine-resistant ambush protected (MRAP) vehicles, which are hugely successful at protecting occupants but too big for many mission profiles.
Now, with the war in Iraq over (sort of) and combat in Afghanistan winding down, the DoD can spend its time and money on a new, major acquisition: the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV), the machine that will replace the venerable but outdated Humvee.
One of the frontrunners going after the $9.4 billion contract to design and produce that replacement is the Wisconsin-based Oshkosh Corporation, which calls its vehicle the Light Combat Tactical All-Terrain Vehicle. The L-ATV (Oshkosh is fluent in acronym-obsessed military parlance) is the faster little brother to its popular MRAP, the M-ATV. “Future battlefields will have an unpredictable level of terrain and tactics and threats,” says John Bryant, senior vice president of defense programs for Oshkosh Defense. “Troops require an all-terrain vehicle that’s scalable, net-ready, that performs off road, and is highly reliable.”
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/the-next-humvee/
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CH-124/CH-148/CH-149 lifts Jeep J8, Defender and G-Wagen. They also land on all Canadian ships including the CSC with whatever capabilities its finally has.
JLTV needs CH-147 to lift it (and won't carry it inside where the above three vehicles will fit). CH-147 can't operate from Canadian ships.
CH-147 should be able to operate from Canadian ships. Canadian ships should carry vehicles that helicopters can lift.
Will this ever happen......not flaming likely.
Mind you, the JLTV would probably be a better fit for the Expeditionary Branch than the TAPV.
JLTV needs CH-147 to lift it (and won't carry it inside where the above three vehicles will fit). CH-147 can't operate from Canadian ships.
CH-147 should be able to operate from Canadian ships. Canadian ships should carry vehicles that helicopters can lift.
Will this ever happen......not flaming likely.
Mind you, the JLTV would probably be a better fit for the Expeditionary Branch than the TAPV.
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