Medical Release ( merged )

[Char1991]

When a person is Formed, they are usually expressing harm to ones self, or another.  Now, I do not know your situation, but I can almost guarantee you were not given a form one for walking on the grass, or across a parade square on base, wouldn't you agree?

I think there is a wee bit more to your story than you are telling us.  If you want an honest answer, I suggest you tell the complete story.

Well I cut myself a month before I was put on the Form 1 (very minor mind you) and my psych didn't see any real threat.  (I had cut myself twice prior before this, years before).  So there you have it the entire story.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Alright, so this is my first, and after searching extensively I was unable to find something relating to my exact question so I thought I'd ask my own.  If I'm in the wrong thread feel free to move it.  So to my real question.

About 6 months into my switch from the Reserves to the Regs, I started seeing a Psychiatrist to treat mild depression.  And everything was going fine, until about two months ago when my supervisor decided to get involved and had me go to the MIR to see an Doctor who decided I should be put on a Form 1 as my Psych was not available.  After my Form was up, I was released and went back to work normally.  However, I had to see an MO since I was hospitalized and he put me on a TCat for a month, and he decided to give me a Medical Part 1 and 2.  During the Part 2, he just went straight to talking about placing me on a PCat, because of  how I am a danger to myself and others, and that I shouldn't be deployed as I need MIR visits more then every six months, near weapons, work for overly long hours because of stress and that I shouldn't be in a supervisor position.  After which he said, it'd be sent to D Med Pol to decide if I'm fit to continue in my current trade (RMS Clk), do an occupational transfer or be released (he mentioned release about 4 or 5 times).  He seemed to take no consideration for my opinion, as I told him that I was capable of what he thought I was unfit for; as I often work long/stressful hours, can be near weapons and can supervise without any negative repercussions.  I also believe that I do not need the amount of time with my Psych as he believes, as when I do see her we talk for maybe 5 minutes and she sees no problem.

My question is since I am already an RMS Clk, what trade could I go that would allow me to stay in?  Or will I simply be released?

And is there anyway to fight this as I should've been allowed up to a year on TCat. 

Any help or advise would be appreciated greatly.  Thank you,

Well I cut myself a month before I was put on the Form 1 (very minor mind you) and my psych didn't see any real threat.  (I had cut myself twice prior before this, years before).  So there you have it the entire story.

The parts I have coloured in Yellow, are the parts I agree with.  Orange I don't.

Dude, you are cutting yourself with sharp objects.  This is not normal behaviour, no matter what trade you are in the military.  Concentrate on the Doctors advice, and seek a path of healing and well being.  Never mind challenging the system.  Further, I would drop into your local IPSC, and ask for administrative advice.

dileas

tess

 

[mariomike]

Well I cut myself a month before I was put on the Form 1 (very minor mind you) and my psych didn't see any real threat.  (I had cut myself twice prior before this, years before).  So there you have it the entire story.

I met a lot of "cutters" over the years. Some people burned themselves. I doubt it was always a suicide attempt. I think the physical pain and blood may actually have been their way of reminding themselves that life was worth living. That happiness was attainable.  Some said they just wanted to stop feeling miserable.

Maybe it was their way of expressing anger and punishing themselves?
It may have been their way of reaching out for help from "the system".

 

[Char1991]

Dude, you are cutting yourself with sharp objects.  This is not normal behaviour, no matter what trade you are in the military.  Concentrate on the Doctors advice, and seek a path of healing and well being.  Never mind challenging the system.  Further, I would drop into your local IPSC, and ask for administrative advice.

I am following the Doctors advice and I am getting better.  I'm just worried that I'll be released now, with the amount of times the MO said it.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I am following the Doctors advice and I am getting better.  I'm just worried that I'll be released now, with the amount of times the MO said it.

Then concentrate your efforts on getting better, rather than wasting time finding ways to fight the system.

dileas

tess

 

[kstart]

Civilian here, I had to look up TCat and PCat to familiarize with these terms, designations.  Kind of lame, but I research for relaxation, hobby.  ;D  I'm on disability atm, ptsd (lower functioning, re: routines, etc.) -- not the end of the world. 


Cutting is not necessarily suicidal-- when you got formed-- did you have to stay in hospital for a bit (e.g. 12 hours, 24, 72. . .)?  But it is signs of distress, overwhelment, hurting on the inside.  For me, it was a way to regain back a sense of control, help me re-focus, when the brain/mind felt out of control.  Self-monitoring, e.g. use of the SUDs-scale (mindfulness), to recognize earlier to intervene before that stress response presents.  CBT, to help manage 'mind'.  There's other tricks to prevent self-harm (some people use 'ice cubes').


When I look over CF policies and procedures, they seem to have a fair and transparent policy.  It is care to help a member seek help and they're preventing further harm and damage which can come about via burnout (causing further disability), or even deployment if not ready for it etc.  They're protecting you and health of unit.  It's good too see that CF is responsive, and won't leave others dangling or in situations that could worsen symptoms and recovery.


 

Anyway, from some net-surfing, this is what I found:

These Links seem to suggest a bit about process, review, re: MEL (Medical Employment Limitations):

TCats and Pcats:  
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/11-04-eng.asp

CFP, Appendix H:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/AN-H-eng.aspz;
A bit about the process.  Appendix H-- MO’s recommendations would also need to be approved.  Not a guarantee that MO’s recommendations would automatically be approved for PCat designation.  It looks like you have some to breathe a bit.

48th's recommendations to follow up re: administrative help, forms, some expertise and guidance through the process, sounds like good sound advice.  Something to look into asap.

Stuff to keep familiar about: CFP 154
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/default-eng.asp

You asked about job transfer, there are minimal standards per each Military Occupation (MOSID):

My question is since I am already an RMS Clk, what trade could I go that would allow me to stay in?  Or will I simply be released?

MOC Task Statements (minimal standards by occupation)
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/AN-E-eng.asp

RMC Clk:

836 Resource Management Support Clerk  4 3 3 3 3 5 00298

Minimal Standards: Vision (V): 4 ; Colour Vision (CV): 3; Hearing (H): 3; Geographic Factor (G): 3; Occupational Factor (O): 3 ; Air Factor (A): 5 
(Military Occupational Structure ID, MOSID: 00298)

Chapter 2 of CFP: clarifies the terms and scale, re: Minimal medical standards scale (Vision; Colour Vision; Hearing; Geographical Factor, Occupational Factor and Air: V, Cv, H, G, O, A):
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/CH-2-eng.asp

Generic Task Statements
http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/AN-Dapp3-faq-eng.asp


Expectations of deployability (but for which TCat and PCat can exempt from, MEL):

I watched the video here re: MRC:
http://www.forces.ca/en/job/resourcemanagementsupportclerk-78 

From that, I got that there is also the expectation to be able to function on sea ship, or plane, or in various contexts of deployment, applying soldier training, functions beyond administrative/office.  Universality of Service.


Specific to the wording of your MO's recommendations re: TCat/PCat, I'd look at this wording from:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/health-sante/pd/cfp-pfc-154/CH-3-eng.asp

Geographical Factors
G1 - assigned to the member who has successfully passed the stringent medical requirements for such unique duty as astronaut training;

G2 - assigned to the member:
who has no geographical limitations due to a medical condition; and
who is considered healthy and, at most, requires only routine, periodic or scheduled medical services no more frequently than every twelve (12) months (see definitions in Chapter 2, 4.c.).

G3 - assigned to the member:
who is considered likely fit for field exercises, sea environment, isolated postings and operational taskings for periods up to six (6) months;
who has a known requirement for scheduled medical service (see definitions in Chapter 2, 4.c.) by an MO but no more frequently than every six (6) months;
whose limitations resulting from a known medical condition do not pose an unacceptable risk to the health and/or safety of the individual or fellow workers in the operational/work environment;
who may require and take prescription medications, the unexpected discontinuance (unavailability) of which will not create an unacceptable risk to the member's health and/or safety; and/or
who may require a medical evaluation before being sent on the tasking.

G4 - assigned to the member:
who is considered unfit because of medical limitations inherent to the medical condition itself or because of the unacceptable risk to the health and/or safety of this person or to fellow workers imposed by the operational environment on the medical condition;
who may be on prescription medications, the unexpected discontinuance of which, for even a few days, is considered likely to create an unacceptable risk to the health and / or safety of this person (or to co-workers);
who may require close proximity to medical services/ready access to physician-directed medical care; and / or
who generally requires scheduled medical care by a MO more frequently than every six (6) months.

G5 - assigned to the member:
who requires scheduled specialist medical care more frequently than every six (6) months; and
who is considered unfit for duty in an area that does not have ready access to full medical services.

G6 - assigned to the member who is considered unfit for any work environment.

O - Occupational Factor - General
7. The physical and mental activity and the stress associated with employment within a specific MOC, although often difficult to describe and measure in an objective and reproducible manner, are important aspects in the grading of the occupational factor. The demands on the member may vary with the MOC, as well as with the geographical locale. In general, the associated mental stress is not described in any detail, unless a specific MOC or medical condition(s) (usually psychiatric) so dictates. In these cases, consultation with a military psychiatrist should describe acceptable levels of mental stress for the particular member. Annex D serves as a concise guide to the expected tasks and duties of all military personnel. Members with medical conditions which impose limitations should be assessed against both the Generic and the MOC Task Statements. In this way, an appropriate O factor can be assigned. Many of the questions suggested in paragraph 4 of Chapter 2 should be considered in the assessment of the occupational limitations and should be reviewed prior to assigning the O factor.

Occupational Factors
O1 - assigned to those rare members who have successfully completed medical screening for such unique duties as astronaut training.

O2 - assigned to the member who has no employment limitations of a medical nature

O3 - assigned to the member who has some specific employment limitation(s) which can be clearly and specifically detailed, and which prevent the member from fully meeting the Generic or the MOC task statements.

O4 - assigned to the member:
who has sufficient limitations such that employment in an operational scenario is, on balance, compromised;
who is generally restricted to light duties only, i.e., general office tasks, including delivering mail, parcels and supplies and maintaining a stock room (these tasks involve lifting and carrying objects of variable weight and bulk and require the ability to walk and climb stairs while carrying out these duties);
who is capable of working a full eight (8) hours per day; and / or
who is considered fit for shift work as long as it is stable (i.e., shifts don't change rapidly).

O5 - assigned to the member:
who is generally restricted to sedentary duties such as clerical / desk work only, which do not involve lifting and carrying objects or climbing stairs or ladders with these materials (typically these individuals are capable of acting as a receptionist, answering telephones, and doing typing and some light office filing);
who is capable of working up to eight (8) hours per day but generally at his / her own pace;
who is not considered fit for shift work; and
unfit for any military work.

O6 - assigned to the member who is unable to work in any capacity.

I think 48th also gave good advice re: focussing on your wellness and recovery. 
See the admin people, learn and do what you have to there, do what you can, then put it aside, and re-focus on wellness, recovery, duties.

But I'm a civvy, some informational links are there-- I don't have direct experience, and my interpretations can be weak, but it's there for discussion.

Worse case scenarios: You'll be okay.  Your RMS skills also look easily transferable to civilian, e.g. work at banks, secretarial, government positions, etc., same with physical fitness (opens up a lot of possibilities as well)-- you've gained really good work experience for your CV.  Help for Depression recovery is also accessible in civilian world, so that's not a barrier either.  It may not be the worst case scenario, re: discharge.  But it makes sense to do what you can.

Best of Luck to You 

Edit: I cut and pasted text directly from document, but I'm getting the "cool smiley" (one with the shades).  And '8' enclosed in brackets. . . just a test, but  (8)  Confirmed, that's why the smile guys showed up in the quoted text

 

[kstart]

Then concentrate your efforts on getting better, rather than wasting time finding ways to fight the system.

dileas

tess

I don't think the system is against you.  And you can make yourself sicker with excessive worry over it (IME  ).  Make sure you are taking care of yourself,  Exercise, socialize, hobbies, etc.-- not stressing over it, don't think or worry about it for too long, or for long periods of time.

I think 48th is giving good advice (from my perspective, IME).  Letting the mind spin too much and for too long can add a psychosis to the depression dx (not fun, IME-- that just means way more recovery work on top of what you are working through).  Avoiding drama and over-dramatization (e.g. 'you against the world, the system'-- can keep you down and it can become unhealthy.  With depression, you need to take care of yourself, healthy activities, healthier mental activities too.

 

[Armymedic]

My question is since I am already an RMS Clk, what trade could I go that would allow me to stay in?  Or will I simply be released?

And is there anyway to fight this as I should've been allowed up to a year on TCat. 

Just let me start by saying I side with the actions of the MO.

First, there is no minimum time for you to be on TCat. A MO can put you on PCat immediately if they assess your condition to remain for the duration of your service.

Secondly, the reviewing procedure for all medical categories is extensive. If you are on PCat, there is a board which sits and decides if you remain suitable for your trade or not; it is not decided by that specific MO who is handling your medical.

The best way to fight this is to get better and stop the cutting.

 

[rugbyalberta]

I know there have been more than a few topics posted on the subject and I have read them. Some of the questions I have aren't answered or even asked though.

I was injured in a training accident 2 years ago, I blew out my knee to the point where it required multiple surgeries to get it to be usable again. The thing is it's never returned to full strength and it doesn't seem to be improving any more. I'm at the end of my third TCat so I'm researching a little bit more about medical release. The main question I have is what compensation and benefits are given on medical release? I'm still in school for the next year and a bit so I need to make sure I can graduate before all else. I've been informed I'm going to need more surgeries in later life due to this injury, what kind of support is offered for that?

 

[McG]

Are you doing a post-grad? 

The Admin Reveiw normally takes several months.  If a decision to release is made, there will only be another few more months before the "release not later than" date.  However, if you are doing a sponsored post-grad, you might consider asking for retention up to 3 years (you get the opportunity during the AR to state your case).  This would ensure you stay in long enough to get the schooling complete as you want, and it would let the PG sponsor get some return on the investment.  There are certain medical release benefits that need to be taken before the realease (things mostly focused on the transition) - a period of retention would also give you more time to take advantage of these.

A SCAN seminar is the best place to start getting answers to many of the questions you have.

 

[Occam]

A SCAN seminar is the best place to start getting answers to many of the questions you have.

Yup, that would be wise...but given that SCAN seminars are not given on a frequent basis, I would say a CF Case Manager would be a better first stop while waiting for the next SCAN seminar. 

Or, The Centre.

 

[dogger1936]

Thank you for this dapaterson.
I'm having a day of clarity and this is making somewhat more sense!

So looking at 17,000 a year until 65; however where does VAC and SISIP contribute?

Personally I don't seem to think I will be doing much of anything IRT working after the military. Every attempt to work had ended in utter failure over this past year. I've thought about getting into photography but doubt I will earn much of a living off it to be truthful. Alas it will be something to give me purpose.

I keep seeing this minimal earnings of 40,000 a year and such. How does that work?

Just saying I release and take photography as my vocational rehab. I move to tinytown and buy a farm house. I sell a few photos to magazines and a few online. Thats what i'm thinking will be the honest reality of my next "career". Something where i can be alone and not have any stress.

If I make 5000 dollars through photography receive 17,000 from my pension annually do I have to keep sending updates to VAC to show them my income made? Is it adjusted per year? I'm slightly confused on all that.

Honestly to get some info on a secure income would be a godsend to me and my young family right now.

 

[Pusser]

Keep in mind that if it's a medical release (Art. 3), your CFSA benefits should indexed immediately (i.e. increased annually due to inflation), so you shouldn't be receiving only $17K per year until 65.  It should go up each year.

You should also look into CPP benefits that may be available as I think they do cover some disability situations.  You may also want to consider drawing regular CPP early (i.e. 60 vice 65).  It would be a reduced benefit, but drawing it earlier may be to your advantage (it's also noting that there is no CFSA reduction due to CPP until you turn 65, even if you do start drawing CPP at 60).

SISIP and VAC benefits are separate from this (that may be where the minimum annual income comes in).

 

[dogger1936]

Pusser

Thank you very much. you have been very helpful as I try to wade through the black and white print of all this.  I commend you for the wealth of knowledge you bring to a forum like this. Thanks.

I did find some things tonight that I will post here to hopefully help someone out in the future.

Found this VERY helpful.
http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/information-canadian-forces/faq#disability-benefits

I would like to ask if anyone has dealt with Earnings loss program yet and how it works. Do you have to be like a welfare case and apply every moth? Is it automatic? Any issues?

As well has anyone here received permant impairment allowance? I have heard a few years back that this was darn near impossible to receive but do recall hearing it may have changed recently?

Any help would be great guys. I'm not finding any answers to these few things as I look into my feature.

 

[Nemo888]

Is my browser broken or something? I can't see any document.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Still there for me, it is an attachment to the first post, as a PDF file.

dileas

tess

 

[Cdnleaf]

The document at the link below has the potential (based on the circumstances of the medical release,) to change the timelines above.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pub/coo-psn/doc/coo-psn-eng.pdf

 

[ryanb2311]

Hi there Medicine Man, I am with IPSC and I have been waiting for a medical release for almost 4 yrs. I've been on medical since the beginning of 2008. I am so fed up with waiting. I have no family or friends here on the island, All my family is in Ontario. My girlfriend is in Vancouver and I have a cousin in Squamish. I am writing a very striong worded but appropriate memo and letter to ottawa about my release. Plus if all else fails Im going to talk to newspapers and news stations. Is there anything you can do to help so that I don't have to resort to that last option?

 

[medicineman]

Ryan, I'm no longer actively in the CF, much less on the Island - I practice out in Manitoba now.  PM me your concerns and I'll see what I can advise you on based on that - this might not be something for the main forums.

Cheers.

MM

 

[ryanb2311]

How do I PM you?