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President Eric Trump enters the conversation.
Military chief warns China and Russia are 'at war with the West' and Canada is not ready
- Thread starter Humphrey Bogart
- Start date
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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A hint possibly:
www.queensu.ca
Re-evaluating the Defence and Security Landscape: The Pan Domain Approach | Centre for International and Defence Policy
Dec 5, 2022 | Policy Brief | by Chelsea Pope
Re-evaluating the Defence and Security Landscape: The Pan Domain Approach - Nov 22
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Well, to be fair, the link in the CANFORGEN was broken. Which I thought was onbrand…
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The CAF has been working on Pan Domain for some timeA hint possibly:
Re-evaluating the Defence and Security Landscape: The Pan Domain Approach | Centre for International and Defence Policy
Dec 5, 2022 | Policy Brief | by Chelsea PopeRe-evaluating the Defence and Security Landscape: The Pan Domain Approach - Nov 22
How Canada Fights
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Thoughts:
Trudeau's Liberals have been struggling with foreign policy for a while
They seem to be split between traditional 5-Eyes Liberals and new post-national Liberals.
Problem areas have been Chinese, Indian and Middle Eastern Relations.
Events have taken over
Ukraine
Chinese Interference
Khalistan
"Nazi" in parliament
Hamas incursion.
Liberal split in the open
Bill Blair has become the mouthpiece (ie Speaker) for the traditional faction.
Melanie Joly is the Speaker for the post-national faction.
Bill Blair has been given cover to speak because the rift is so open that the post-national faction has lost power and there is a new game.
Trudeau is adrift.
The release of the revised concept document is related to the releases from the security community on Chinese interference. It aims to direct the government's upcoming and much delayed defence review.
Trudeau's Liberals have been struggling with foreign policy for a while
They seem to be split between traditional 5-Eyes Liberals and new post-national Liberals.
Problem areas have been Chinese, Indian and Middle Eastern Relations.
Events have taken over
Ukraine
Chinese Interference
Khalistan
"Nazi" in parliament
Hamas incursion.
Liberal split in the open
Bill Blair has become the mouthpiece (ie Speaker) for the traditional faction.
Melanie Joly is the Speaker for the post-national faction.
Bill Blair has been given cover to speak because the rift is so open that the post-national faction has lost power and there is a new game.
Trudeau is adrift.
The release of the revised concept document is related to the releases from the security community on Chinese interference. It aims to direct the government's upcoming and much delayed defence review.
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I've been reading the report - it was circulated, yesterday, on our Regimental net. The 14 points all make sense.
My only issue is: can we, as a nation, muster the political will to tell our political leaders that we want effective and efficient, the two are not mutually exclusive, armed forces that can operate, in our national interests, in a complex strategic environment?
My only issue is: can we, as a nation, muster the political will to tell our political leaders that we want effective and efficient, the two are not mutually exclusive, armed forces that can operate, in our national interests, in a complex strategic environment?
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…but other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
gryphonv
Sr. Member
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Unfortunately I don't feel we as a nation can agree on what we want. Even more so I think the majority probably wants less military spending.
To me the problem is three fold.
First our military has been dragged through the mud last few years with controversy after controversy. And politicians on both sides have used us as a whipping boy to score cheap political points.
Second we have done little to promote the positives we have done, most operations we go on get little to no recognition in the public and the public mostly don't know about it.
Third is complacency by our geographical location. Have the US as our only border nation has giving our public and even our military in some ways a lack of a sense of urgency or even need. This has also lead to the public devaluing the need for a robust military.
I really think our government regardless of stripe needs to do more of a job promoting our military, and not just for recruitment. But to give Canadians that sense of pride in our service men and women. This is not something that can happen over night, and realistically could take a generation or more to turn around.
I think Canada missed a great opportunity this summer when they were deploying troops to help combat forest fires. It was mostly only mentioned as a footnote in most news broadcasts, and that was it. I think a few commercials simply showing our troops at work could of done wonders for helping our image.
correct. It requires the CAF to produce commercials highlighting achievements because the news outfits will never put the CAF as a lead item unless its another senior officer being arrested. The public is interested in what they are told. If you can convince a outlet to feature information re: the military then you will have people interested and concerned. Can you get on 22 minutes in a healthy way or devise an alternative 30 minutes to the Survivor? How about a story line integrating SAR with Hudson and Rex and coming out as a worthwhile partner? It isn't that the public doesn't care, they don't know.
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Do any of our politicians, duly elected by Canadians, see any purpose to an army? Is there any appetite among Canadians for a politician willing to wield the sword overseas in defence of Canadian interests?
Keeping an army for the sake of pride is just another form of virtue signalling.
An army, first and foremost, is a tool and a tool with a very specific purpose.
"We are not the Public Service of Canada. We are not just another department. We are the Canadian Forces and our job is to be able to kill people," General Rick Hillier - July 2005
gryphonv
Sr. Member
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I have immense respect for General Hiller. But I think that statement is part of the problem and I personally don't agree with the end part.
Our military does so much more than train for killing people. Our deployments over the years have been varied in roll and purpose. From active humanitarian relief, to search and rescue and yes some times it is ... to kill.
Canada has long lost the 'peace keeper" label that brought us both national and international respect.. maybe it's time to focus on that again.
I do agree the primary purpose of a military is either offense (the kill) or deterance.
But regardless of our purpose, we still do pretty much squat all about promoting that to our citizens. It's hard to have public support if the general population think we do nothing but the negative news we get.
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Peacekeeping as any sort of priority is pointless. There is often no peace to keep, and too often it results in troops being deployed too late or too ill-equipped to do anything meaningful.
Hillier was right as much as many Canadians won’t face it. The Purpose of a Military is to use force in accordance with Government policy which can be boiled down to —> to kill.
Yes there are other things a Military can do, but those are secondary and tertiary tasks. Those other tasks should never subjugated the primary role.
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I had a chat, back in the 1960s, just about the time the Cyprus mission was starting, with a then fairly recently retired Chief of the General Staff. Peacekeeping, he said, was a good job to keep soldiers busy and engaged while the country waited for the the sad day (I remember his words) when the Army woulds be needed, again.
He was one of those people who believed that "idle hands are the devil's workshop" and he wanted troops kept busy, busy, busy and he felt that doing was as good as training. But, at the time we had two types of PK missions: a few officers on truce supervisory duties in India and the Middle East and, in addition too Cyprus, a few combat units (Recce Sqn) and combat support (Engineers and Signals) and logistics units "doing" in the Middle East and in the Congo.
He was one of those people who believed that "idle hands are the devil's workshop" and he wanted troops kept busy, busy, busy and he felt that doing was as good as training. But, at the time we had two types of PK missions: a few officers on truce supervisory duties in India and the Middle East and, in addition too Cyprus, a few combat units (Recce Sqn) and combat support (Engineers and Signals) and logistics units "doing" in the Middle East and in the Congo.
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One doesn't have a military in order to run active humanitarian relief, one doesn't have a military to perform search and rescue operations - one has a military in order to defend its national/international interests with the threat of 'killing the other sides military' in a more efficient/effective manner. By having the last skill set, it provides us with the luxury to perform the first and second skill set.
gryphonv
Sr. Member
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I don't disagree with that.
I'm just saying we do do more than just 'kill'. And we should be promoting that with more positive imagery.
Leaving it to the news to promote us doesn't work.
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Notwithstanding the logic or correctness ion Rick Hillier's comment it was a PR disaster. It put the gov't-of-the-day in a position from which there was no backing away: he was their guy saying things that the overwhelming majority of Canadians did not want too hear.
Admirals and generals, like children, should be seen but not heard.
Admirals and generals, like children, should be seen but not heard.
Too true. How often does the GOC publicly identify any action by any branch of the CAF as noteworthy and deserving of official commendation? And the emphasis goes on publicly
gryphonv
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
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I look at the timing of that statement, and we were deep in the Afghanistan War, with many of our soldiers paying the ultimate price.
I always viewed General Hiller's as a straight shooter and with the war being very front and center to a lot of Canadians then, he told it like it is.
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