Name This Ship!

[Edward Campbell]

Yes, it is indeed one of the Sa'ar 3 boast ... but there is a lot more history than just the '73 war.

Anyone?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Are you talking about my addition in the edit of my post?

 

[Old Sweat]

Was this one of the missile boats the Israelis had ordered from France, but then France refused to deliver? The Israelis then seized them on their own in a "cutting out" expedition.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I think you got it Old Sweat: The Sa'ar 3 boats (the last five anyway) were the ones involved in Israel's Operation Noah in 1969 after the boats were embargoed by President De Gaulle.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Was this one of the missile boats the Israelis had ordered from France, but then France refused to deliver? The Israelis then seized them on their own in a "cutting out" expedition.

Bingo!

Yes, OS, that's it. It was in Dec of 1968. De Gaulle had grown increasingly disenchanted with Israel after the Six Day war; he was under intense pressure from the Arab League. France had, in the late 1950s, replaced Russia and Czechoslovakia  as Israel's main "friend" as arms supplier, but in 1968, after the Israeli raid on the PLO at Beirut Airport, De Gaulle ordered a compete arms embargo, including on contracts that had been signed and paid. But the Israelis really needed the boats so a quite audacious plan was hatched ~ and was well executed ~ to seize them. President Pompidou threatened to attack the boats at sea and even to bomb Haifa but cooler heads prevailed. When the Israeli intelligence services were tracking down terrorists in Europe, however, the French security and intelligence services were known to be tipping off the Arabs, and that is rumoured to have gone on well into the 1980s, even into the '90s. 

 

[Edward Campbell]

I hope this one my be a wee, tiny bit more difficult ...

Several ships of this class ...

   

          ... achieved considerable diplomatic fame in September 1940. Then one of them went to achieve a high degree of tactical fame, too.

For the win: what was the name of the most famous ship of this class when she achieved her fame in early 1942? For the bonus points: what was her initial name and number?

 

[Old Sweat]

I hope this one my be a wee, tiny bit more difficult ...

Several ships of this class ...

   

          ... achieved considerable diplomatic fame in September 1940. Then one of them went to achieve a high degree of tactical fame, too.

For the win: what was the name of the most famous ship of this class when she achieved her fame in early 1942? For the bonus points: what was her initial name and number?

HMS Campbelltown, ex-USS Buchanan. No idea of her number and I am going to end my career as a naval trivia buff here.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Thought you said you wanted to make it hard ERC!

The ships are US built Wickes class destroyers that were (1940) part of the Destroyer for Bases Agreement  between England and the US.

One of them, the ex USS Buchanan (D-131) was renamed HMS Campbeltown and was the ship used in the 1942 raid on Saint-Nazaire as the block ship to prevent the Nazi having access to the large dry-dock there to refit its large battleships (That led to the Scharnhorst, Gneiseneau and Prinz Eugen escape in what became known as the Channel dash).

Damn, Old Sweat beat me to it while I was typing.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Thought you said you wanted to make it hard ERC!

The ships are US built Wickes class destroyers that were (1940) part of the Destroyer for Bases Agreement  between England and the US.

One of them, the ex USS Buchan (D-131) was renamed HMS Campbeltown and was the ship used in the 1942 raid on Saint-Nazaire as the block ship to prevent the Nazi having access to the large dry-dock there to refit its large battleships (That led to the Scharnhorst, Gneiseneau and Priz Eugen escape in what became known as the Channel dash).

Damn, Old Sweat beat me to it while I was typing.

And clearly I'm a failure. You're both right of course, and I surrender in the face of so much knowledge.

Edited to add: But tell me, OGBD, would you have recognized them if all I had posted was the picture? There were, as I understand it, destroyers from three classes  in the destroyers for bases deal. I think they were all four stackers. I was told that they were all horrible to handle in heavy seas ... worse, by far, than even the early (1939/40 batch) corvettes.

 

[jollyjacktar]

How times have changed,  I'll bet the French wouldn't be acting like stool pigeons and tipping off the targets today.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Actually ERC, I recognized them as Wikes right away. I actually wrote a paper on the Destroyer for Bases Agreement in University and got to see tons of those old pictures. That one in particular is a classic pics that was used to show how old and decrepit they were when transferred.

I'll take it as my turn so here it is: Country and Name please.

 

[Good2Golf]

Thought you said you wanted to make it hard ERC!

The ships are US built Wickes class destroyers that were (1940) part of the Destroyer for Bases Agreement  between England and the US.

One of them, the ex USS Buchanan (D-131) was renamed HMS Campbeltown and was the ship used in the 1942 raid on Saint-Nazaire as the block ship to prevent the Nazi having access to the large dry-dock there to refit its large battleships (That led to the Scharnhorst, Gneiseneau and Prinz Eugen escape in what became known as the Channel dash).

Damn, Old Sweat beat me to it while I was typing.

Just reading up on the most famous of the Wickes, the USS Ward (DD-139), that was built in a record 17 days...yes, 17 days from keel laying until launch...apparently so fast, that it took the USN 3-1/2 weeks to catch up with paperwork and commission her.  First American shots fired during (just before) the Pearl Harbor attack.  Very interesting.

Regards
G2G

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . The Israelis then seized them on their own in a "cutting out" expedition.

. . .  But the Israelis really needed the boats so a quite audacious plan was hatched ~ and was well executed ~ to seize them. . . .

While it was a well planned and executed operation that resulted in the boats being put to sea (undetected for two days) and making the lengthy and difficult voyage (for craft of that size) from Cherbourg (Bay of Biscay/ Atlantic) through the Straits of Gibraltar, across the Med to Israel, describing it as a "seizure" or "cutting out" perhaps makes some think that it was an armed commando operation.  Nothing of the sort.  It was masterful, however, but was probably more a reflection of the ingenuity of the primary Israeli arms buyer in France, (a retired Israeli naval officer) and the stupidity of the French Minister of Defense.  This was in conjunction with the French Minister of Defence agreeing to allow the Israeli government to negotiate the sale of the vessels to an oil exploration company (a front company set up by a sympathetic Norwegian) as "oil exploration ships" to be crewed by "ex-Israeli Navy sailors" (since they were already familiar with the boats).

The boats (no weapons had been installed in France and they weren't designed as missile boats - except in the secretive minds of the Israelis) had already been paid for by Israel and IDF crews had been in France to oversee construction, trials and training (this continued even though some restrictions were in place).  When the Israelis started discussing taking them to sea to circumvent increased embargo enforcement, the French government ordered the Israeli Navy crews to leave France and the boats to be removed from the security of a government controlled dockyard to the openness of the commercial port.  The minimum maintenance crews aboard were Israelis, all "civilian" and "ex"-Navy.  As the date for their departure approached (Christmas Eve), the additional crew members required entered France as tourists and surreptitiously gathered supplies for the voyage and joined the ships.  There were probably a few blind eyes turned from management at the shipyard to some local policemen - two French GOFOs were fired as a result of the incident.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Actually ERC, I recognized them as Wikes right away. I actually wrote a paper on the Destroyer for Bases Agreement in University and got to see tons of those old pictures. That one in particular is a classic pics that was used to show how old and decrepit they were when transferred.

I'll take it as my turn so here it is: Country and Name please.

I believe it is the Korean Polar Research Institute's icebreaker RV Araon.

She was in the (Aussie) news just days ago.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Well played ERC. You are correct.

Here I was thinking no one else kept up with Australian news.  [:-[

Someone else go!

 

[Cloud Cover]

Here's a new one...

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Too Easy W601:

It is the portugese Navy ship Viana de Castelo, first of class, OPV, P-360

 

[Cloud Cover]

Correct! 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

All right. I am really trying hard here to be both relevant (staying in the current era) and harder:

Ship and country please: No takers? I'll add a side view - same vessel, maybe it will help.

 

[winnipegoo7]

Distinction in history: During the 1973 Yum Kippur war, they were the first ship ever to fight using a Surface to Surface missile, the first such engagement in history.

* I'm pretty sure that a Komar missile boat got the first missile kill.

1967 October 21 - Egyptian Navy Komar class missile boats sank Israeli destroyer Eilat in the first combat use of P-15 Termit anti-ship missiles. This was the first time a ship had sunk another ship using guided missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komar-class_missile_boat

And PNS Khaibar was sunk by P-15s launched from Indian Vidyut-class (Osa) missile boats in 1971.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cadiz_(D79)#The_sinking_of_PNS_Khaibar

Both before the Yom Kippur war in 1973.