Naval Improved Clothing and Equipment (NICE) Project

[medicineman]

Well, this not so sailor actually likes his NCD's - never though I would say it.  I do also take great delight in driving chiefs insane with my CADPAT slip-ons  ;D.  I think it looks mentally challenged with the CADPAT and green T-shirts, but, I'm not ready to be called a PO yet...

As for the argument for CADPAT on the ships because Marines wear theirs, well, apples, meet oranges.  Marines are soldiers and therefore dress like them - it sets them apart from the crew of the ship, as they are supposed to be.  Don't forget, Marines are on ships (other than assault ships) for the purpose of security and in old times to put down mutiny, so therefore had to look apart from the crew to tell good guys from bad.  Besides, as someone mentioned and I'll retierate, combats have alot of polyester in them and therefore melt and stick to you and burn you in a fire - NCD's have some semblance of fire retardation to them.

  :2c:

MM

 

[dimsum]

How about coveralls?  The RAN uses them, as well as boarding party and submariners.  As well, the Air Det uses them as well.

 

[30 for 30]

CADPAT and similarly-styled uniforms don't look as sloppy as NCDs. That's my point.

 

[medaid]

Marines are also in their Blue-Dress uniforms allot aboard ship. Would you like to stand around in your DEUs? No? Neither would I.

Something tells me that our DEUs just don't look that good with a duty belt, pistol, and mag pouches attached to it.

Oh! To everyone else that's saying that CADPAT burns? Well... there's CADPAT Nomex now too. Surprise, surprise?

 

[aesop081]

there's CADPAT Nomex now too. Surprise, surprise?

In the end, NOMEX ( or other brands of FR clothing) burns too.

 

[medaid]

In the end, NOMEX ( or other brands of FR clothing) burns too.

True enough. I was addressing everyone's apparent belief that CADPAT bursts into flames upon contact.

CADPAT is the PATTERN of the camouflage, not the material the uniform is made out of. The two terms are not synonymous.

 

[aesop081]

not the material the uniform is made out of.

The material that the combat uniform that a very vast majority of CF members wear ( in CADPAT) is made of materiel that will indeed burn well and melt to the skin.

 

[medaid]

The material that the combat uniform that a very vast majority of CF members wear ( in CADPAT) is made of materiel that will indeed burn well and melt to the skin.

that's why I said that NOMEX in CADPAT now exists!  sheesh you're nit picking tonight!

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Marines are soldiers and therefore dress like them

Marines are NOT soldiers.  Marines are Marines, and as such hold themselves to a far greater standard of dress and deportment.  :camo:

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

To whoever said that my approximation of the % of sailors who dislike their NCD's well...that's how the cookie crumbles, pretty much all the sailors that I know PERSONALLY, hate the damn things, and can't wait to see them GONE.

I bet most of the people who responded to my comments didn't take the time to check out the pics and read the 2-3 paragraphs that go along with each picture.

so how about taking the time to actually LOOK before you judge.
As stated I think the Camo is awesome, for hiding grease and stains and what not, so it would work to our advantage.

Like many others have stated...Fire RETARDANT materials eventually burn, they aren't fire 100% proof.
You could easily make Nomex cadpat combats as someone else mentioned.  Furthermore the options I mentioned (pics included) are up to specs for their respective Navy standards in terms of FR.
This is the USN's new Navy Working Uniform

What about shipboard fire safety?  Or visibility and floatation in case of a Sailor
falling overboard?
No current Navy uniform in the seabag was developed purposefully to fight a shipboard fire or
to enhance visibility or floatation in the water.  Every Navy ship is equipped with Fire Fighting
Ensemble (FFE) and necessary personal protective equipment to combat shipboard fires, as
well as floatation gear with flares and dyes for those purposes. 

Navy uniforms are required to meet specific fire retardant standards, and these NWU concepts
also meet those requirements.   

The uniforms were developed keeping in mind that our Sailors must have a uniform that, if
necessary, can help resist a certain degree of intense heat without causing injury.
and this is the US Coast Guard's new uniform

For those that didn't bother to look.

 

[medicineman]

Marines are NOT soldiers.  Marines are Marines, and as such hold themselves to a far greater standard of dress and deportment.  :camo:

You have a point Matt - perhaps I should have pointed out they weren't sailors - but then neither are the airmen and other non-Mariens that are soldiers aboard . 

As for the combat clothing portrayed, I'm willing to bet that  stuff is for sailors on shore/combat unit postings - such as corpsmen with the Marines.  The Navy obviously doesn't want to raise their social standards to those of the Marines and so wish to have their sailors looking distinctive in their own land combat dress that lives up to current military fashion trends (ie -  digital camouflage).  Of course, this only makes the medics look different from the riflemen...

I'll concede though that the dark blue utilities do look kinda cool and coveralls do have the added benfit of being a one piece garment that can be donned in a hurry.  There is however the aesthetic problem of people of girth wearing coveralls - they look pretty bad when someone has Dunlap's Disease.

MM

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

MedicineMan: i take it by your comment you didn't bother to look at the links I put up.

That uniform is replacing ALL other work uniforms except for desk/office jobs.  I'll get the exact words on here:
"What about Sailors who operate in tactical environments, such as Seabees, SEALS?
The NWU concept is designed to be a working uniform, not a tactical uniform.  When Sailors
are working in tactical environments, such as the desert, or in the field, they will still be outfitted
with the appropriate tactical uniforms.  Part of the working uniform will include a Gore-Tex
parka as well as a turtleneck sweater to protect against adverse weather conditions."

"What about maintenance/care of these uniforms?
These year-round uniforms are intended to be wash-and-wear.  Future Navy ships are being
built without dry cleaning facilities; Sailors did not like the idea of putting an iron to a uniform in
which they are going to be doing heavy work.

By being able to take a uniform straight from the dryer and put up on the hanger for daily wear
is much more practical and appeasing to both Sailors’ busy schedule and pocketbook.

In addition, the camouflage pattern will permit mending of small rips in uniform fabric, saving
Sailors considerably in replacement costs."
- taken from http://www.new-navy-uniform.com/faq-nwu.html


"FM CNO WASHINGTON DC/

TO NAVADMIN
NAVADMIN 343/08

SUBJ/UNIFORM UPDATE//

1.  THIS NAVADMIN ANNOUNCES THE 24 MONTH FLEET ROLLOUT OF THE NEW
NAVY WORKING UNIFORM (NWU) BEGINNING DECEMBER 2008.  THE NWU IS A
BATTLE DRESS UTILITY STYLE UNIFORM CONSTRUCTED OF 50/50 PERCENT
NYLON/COTTON TWILL FABRIC.  IT IS A FOUR COLOR (DECK GRAY, HAZE GRAY,
BLACK AND NAVY BLUE) DIGITAL PATTERN DESIGN.  EMBEDDED THROUGHOUT THE
FABRIC ARE MINIATURIZED FEATURES OF THE SEAL OF THE NAVY FLAG WITH THE
LETTERS "USN"  DIRECTLY BENEATH IT.  THE SEAL INCLUDES AN ANCHOR, A THREE-MASTED
SQUARE RIGGED SHIP, AND AN EAGLE.  THE EMBLEM WILL BE ABBREVIATED "ACE",
WHICH STANDS FOR ANCHOR, USS CONSTITUTION, AND EAGLE. 

2.  THE NWU IS INTENDED FOR YEAR-ROUND WEAR AND SHALL BE THE STANDARD
WORKING UNIFORM ASHORE.  THE NWU IS DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE MALE AND
FEMALE SAILORS AND TO FULFILL MULTI-FUNCTIONAL/GEOGRAPHICAL UNIFORM
REQUIREMENTS AT SEA AND ASHORE.  THE NWU WILL REPLACE WORKING UTILITIES,
TROPICAL WORKING UNIFORMS, WASH KHAKIS, WINTER WORKING BLUE, AVIATION
WORKING GREEN AND NON-TACTICAL/ENVIRONMENTAL USAGE OF CAMOUFLAGE
UTILITY UNIFORMS (CUU).  IT IS ALSO DESIGNED TO MINIMIZE THE
REQUIREMENT FOR VARIOUS COLD WEATHER GEAR, AND TO ACCOMMODATE THE
PERSONNEL ARMOR SYSTEM FOR GROUND TROOPS (PASGT). 
APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY MAY PRESCRIBE PASGT ITEMS FOR WEAR WITH THE NWU. 
THE TERM "APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY" REFERS TO COMMANDERS, COMMANDING
OFFICERS, AND OFFICERS IN CHARGE.  THE MANDATORY WEAR DATE IS 31
DECEMBER 2010. 

3.  OCCASION FOR WEAR.  THE NWU IS DESIGNED TO BE WORN IN ENVIRONMENTS
(AT SEA AND ASHORE) THAT DO NOT REQUIRE SPECIAL CLOTHING (E.G. FLIGHT,
FLIGHT DECK, ENGINE ROOM, ETC.).
UNLESS OTHERWISE PRESCRIBED BY THE REGIONAL COMMANDER, THE NWU IS
AUTHORIZED TO BE WORN AT ALL FACILITIES ON BASE, WHILE COMMUTING
TO/FROM WORK AND HOME VIA POV OR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, AND ON
GOVERNMENT/MILITARY CONTRACTED FLIGHTS TO OR FROM OCONUS LOCATIONS. 
ROUTINE STOPS WHILE COMMUTING ARE NOT AUTHORIZED. 
GENUINE EMERGENCIES, SUCH AS MEDICAL AND VEHICLE BREAKDOWNS, ARE THE
ONLY AUTHORIZED STOPS."

Taken from what is their equivalence to our CANFORGEN

 

[Nfld Sapper]

What the US does, does not equate to what the CF does.

IMHO stop trying to compare what works for the yanks with what we decided to do wrt Naval Dress.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

As for the combat clothing portrayed, I'm willing to bet that  stuff is for sailors on shore/combat unit postings - such as corpsmen with the Marines.  The Navy obviously doesn't want to raise their social standards to those of the Marines and so wish to have their sailors looking distinctive in their own land combat dress that lives up to current military fashion trends (ie -  digital camouflage).  Of course, this only makes the medics look different from the riflemen...

US Navy Corpsmen attached to the Fleet Marine Force are authorized to wear the Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform with the appropriate Naval rate and trade insignia, and are actually authorized to wear the US Marine Corps Service Uniform (our version of the green DEU) with their appropriate Naval rate and trade insignia (which is done in a specific colour and format for this uniform option).
The full uniform dress regulations for US Navy pers wearing Marine Corps uniforms can be accessed here:  http://www.tecom.usmc.mil/mcub/library/MCUR/URCH8.htm#UR8001

Out of all the US services, I still believe that the Navy has been somewhat the most intelligent in its development of a specific camouflage uniform, which is primarily designed for the realities of shipboard life.

In respect to shore based Naval pers and units, i.e. Seabees, Riverine Warfare units, etc. the Navy is adopting a generic version of Marpat temperate woodland and desert (without the printed Marine Corps emblem).

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

to Sapper..dude lay off, i've seen people spouting about oh we should do this or get that, from other countries, and don't see to many peopl ragging on them.

Besides, just because another country is using something, doesn't mean we CAN'T use it.

OMG not having to spend money on new uniforms, that were thought up by canadians and that are totally canadiannized.

Just like the whole Boot debacle, some ideas/notions from other country's military would work greatly to help us. I.E boots, if we got a boot allowance and got to pick from approved boots a-z it would be so easier, because different feet, different needs.

 

[George Wallace]

to Sapper..dude lay off, i've seen people spouting about oh we should do this or get that, from other countries, and don't see to many peopl ragging on them.

Besides, just because another country is using something, doesn't mean we CAN'T use it.

OMG not having to spend money on new uniforms, that were thought up by canadians and that are totally canadiannized.

Just like the whole Boot debacle, some ideas/notions from other country's military would work greatly to help us. I.E boots, if we got a boot allowance and got to pick from approved boots a-z it would be so easier, because different feet, different needs.

I know that Boat debacle was really something.  I kinda knew that their design would make them prone to electrical fires with the main board a the bottom of the hatch in the Sail.  As for an allowance; how big an allowance would you suggest the Navy ask for to keep these boats afloat and serviceable?

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Geore i'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that you aren't being sarcastic or a smart ass, with that comment because I never mentioned BOAT...(every good sailor knows they are SHIPS not boats) i mentioned BOOTS the things that go on your feet.

aka black cadillacs

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Me thinks you should start using the spell checker.

 

[medicineman]

George, me thinks he didn't mean Boot as in "Das Boot", he meant black caddilacs for the feet, unless of course I've got to give my sense of humour a wake up call...

Matt - I bow to your expertise.  I did know the corpsmen were allowed to wear  the Marine combat uniforms - I didn't know about the service dress though.  Gunnies don't like Squids on their parades anymore than Army RSM's don't like Air Force or Navy guys on parade for their Troopings I guess?  Would certainly make them feel at home with the troops they support - though I'm sure there is some Navy Chief somewhere having a spinout over it.


Biggoals - my apologies, you're right, I didn't check your links.  Wouldn't be the first time I guy looked at something and shoved a size 10 in my mouth.


MM

 

[ff149]

The military firefighters have been looking at something similar for a couple of years now. We are trying to get away from the blue nomex coveralls going to cadpat or arid cadpat. From the discussion I had with a CWO last fall they are running into a problem with it. When they apply the cadpat design, it actually will cause the nomex to burn quicker then it normally would. They have run several tests and different materials and they seem to have it narrowed down to what the cadpat design is made from (not the material). They say they are getting close but they still have away to go. And until they get it to pass independent lab tests they don't want to start a large order (for the firefighters).