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Politics in 2015

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Altair said:
The feedback I get a lot is that the army is not a friendly place for minorities. They look at the army and they don't see themselves reflected in it. I've talked to about 300 people, from the ages of 14 to 35, and 2 of them had ever even thought of the army as an option, 1 had walked through the doors of a recruiting center.

Plenty of people don't "see themselves reflected in it" becasue our values do not reflect theirs, not because we are [insert ethnic/religion/gender here]. We are about doing things, not virtue signalling. We are about taking a stand, not achieving consensus. We are about going in and getting our hands dirty, not discussing the best way to achieve an end (and we are pretty willing to go to amazing lengths to get the job done, regardless of the inconveinience, physical danger or even threat to life, rather than complain that it dosn't work becasue "it hasn't been done properly").

And there are plenty of white males who would rather do navel gazing/virtue signalling/consensus building rather than joining us.

So by all means, go tell your story and get the word out (you are not the only one), but remember that the ones you should want are there becasue they want to be there, they want to take on a challenge and they want to achieve real, tangable and quantifiable goals, not because of the exterior shell.
 
Dimsum said:
All fair points, but as the old saying goes, "give solutions, not problems."  What would you suggest in terms of concrete ideas to remedy this, understanding that moving garrisons/airbases/naval bases to cities with large minority populations aren't realistic? 

Mods:  I think this is worthy of discussion but split/merge into some other topic as you see fit. 
There is already a huge thread on the subject. (On mobile no time to search it out)

Please follow the Mod direction and get back on track. Further tangents may be deleted.

---Staff---
 
A few things I've noticed so far.

The CPC members that are appearing on news or being interviewed seem much more relaxed and outgoing.  I saw Michele Remple on the teletube yesterday and she was very well spoken and presented herself quite well.  The same with Rona Ambrose.  I couldn't stand watching Ms. Remple during the campaign with her robotic talking points.

I hope there is a lesson learned there.  The CPC have talent.  Letting that show is a good thing.  Muzzle the idiots by all means but I think the real talent needs more freedom to speak candidly and use their judgement.

I suspect that the LPC/Trudeau honeymoon will be short lived.  Already they seem to be pressured to act on things they can act on as promised.  We'll see what reality brings them.

 
Remius said:
A few things I've noticed so far.

The CPC members that are appearing on news or being interviewed seem much more relaxed and outgoing.  I saw Michele Remple on the teletube yesterday and she was very well spoken and presented herself quite well.  The same with Rona Ambrose.  I couldn't stand watching Ms. Remple during the campaign with her robotic talking points.

I hope there is a lesson learned there.  The CPC have talent.  Letting that show is a good thing.  Muzzle the idiots by all means but I think the real talent needs more freedom to speak candidly and use their judgement.

I suspect that the LPC/Trudeau honeymoon will be short lived.  Already they seem to be pressured to act on things they can act on as promised.  We'll see what reality brings them.


You could possibly be seeing various candidates not having quite so much of the Media Party 'Harper Hater' default position poisoning the well before they can even get started. Of course, that would never be acknowledged by those 'professional journalists' that have an anti Harper persuasion.
 
Dimsum said:
All fair points, but as the old saying goes, "give solutions, not problems."  What would you suggest in terms of concrete ideas to remedy this, understanding that moving garrisons/airbases/naval bases to cities with large minority populations aren't realistic? 

Mods:  I think this is worthy of discussion but split/merge into some other topic as you see fit.
I do have some answers, don't know the proper thread in which to place then,  and I'll avoid angering the powers that be on this board more than I already do.

So, first day of the LPC rule of Canada tomorrow. I'm pretty excited. Andrew Leslie as defence minister? Wouldn't bet on it,  it would be a very big file for a rookie MP.

Marc Garneau maybe.
 
Altair said:
I do have some answers, don't know the proper thread in which to place then,  and I'll avoid angering the powers that be on this board more than I already do.

So, first day of the LPC rule of Canada tomorrow. I'm pretty excited. Andrew Leslie as defence minister? Wouldn't bet on it,  it would be a very big file for a rookie MP.

Marc Garneau maybe.

Feel free to post on the thread below:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/315/post-1347229.html#msg1347229

I also don't think Andrew Leslie will be MND, but I guess we'll see tomorrow.
 
Brian Gable, drawing in the Globe and Mail, says ...

   
webthuedcar05co1.jpg

    Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorial-cartoons-for-november-2015/article27007657/

          ... which might remind some of us of this ...

             
s-l500.jpg

                   
                    ... just a bit. It is wrong to ascribe the sins of the father to the son; it is equally wrong to pin false hopes, especially of things that never were, on him.
 
Jeffrey Simpson has two very recent columns in the  Globe and Mail that will bear on politics for the next four years:

    The first, titled The Liberals' taxing challenge is a plea to restore two points, arguably even more, to the HST/GST; and

    The second, headlined as, Quebec’s red wave carries a tide of expectations is reproduced, below, under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act, so that we can discuss and debate it here since it is available only to paid subscribers:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/globe-politics-insider/jeffrey-simpson-quebecs-red-wave-carries-a-tide-of-expectations/article27238105/
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Quebec’s red wave carries a tide of expectations

SUBSCRIBERS ONLY

Jeffrey Simpson
The Globe and Mail

Published Friday, Nov. 13, 2015

The Liberal government can fairly be said to be truly national. It has MPs from every province, although it has a higher share of the seats in some provinces than others.

Winning a handful of seats in Alberta and 17 in British Columbia makes this government rather unique. But it is the government’s Quebec representation that stands out. Not since the election of 1988, Brian Mulroney’s second majority triumph, have there been more Quebec MPs in government than in opposition.

In every election thereafter, Quebeckers put themselves in opposition by voting Bloc Québécois or NDP, usually quite overwhelmingly. Only once, in 2000, was the split even close between being in opposition and government. The Bloc took 38 seats that year, the governing Liberals 36.

The return of Quebeckers to government is of course good news for the Liberals, who had not won the largest number of seats in that province since the days of Trudeau the Elder. It’s also good news for Canada, since it illustrates that the federal system can work for Quebeckers, especially if they join the government.

Being in opposition for nearly three decades became a habit of mind in many quarters of Quebec. It reinforced the idea that Ottawa counted for little; or, if anything, that the federal government was an distant, even ominous, entity that needed to be constantly checked by Quebec MPs in opposition.

Stephen Harper tried, especially in his first term, to implant the Conservative Party in the province beyond some small tendrils. That he failed was not for lack of trying in those early years. Thereafter, his was a hopeless cause. Francophone Quebeckers just could not warm to him or to much of his agenda. Since they were not ready to turn to the Liberals, they settled in again with the Bloc Québécois, and then with the NDP.

The NDP will be doing much soul searching internally about what happened to the “orange wave” that swept over the province in the 2011 election. It receded quite spectacularly in the last half of the 2015 campaign as many Quebeckers who forcefully wanted Mr. Harper gone detected a Liberal surge across Canada and wished to join the action.

It was said that NDP leader Tom Mulcair’s position on the niqab hurt his party, and indeed it did. But his position was also that of Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau, so why did the same position apparently hurt one but not the other?

In any event, Quebec broke the NDP’s heart, because the only way the party could take the largest number of seats, and therefore form government, was to retain its 2011 Quebec base and go from there. Instead, the base cracked, then crumbled as a red wave washed over Quebec.

Not for a very long time, maybe as long ago as before the Second World War, have so many strongly federalist stars lined up in the Quebec political firmament.

Mr. Trudeau is obviously a federalist in the mould of his father. Denis Coderre, the very popular mayor of Montreal, is a former Liberal MP and a vocal advocate, when required, for federalism.

Premier Philippe Couillard is a committed federalist who, while always defending Quebec’s “interests,” also defends Canada and insists that Quebeckers are much better off participating fully in federalism than being the odd person out. Right now, the biggest opposition Mr. Couillard has is in the streets, where public-sector unions are often most at home, demonstrating against government restraint. This bit of street theatre happens with considerable regularity, attracts media attention (some of it quite fawning), but leaves most Quebec taxpayers-cum-voters unimpressed.

With so many federalist stars aligned in Quebec, and with a majority of Quebec MPs in the government caucus, co-operation should be much easier than in decades gone by. But results will be wanted/demanded by voters who sent all these people to Ottawa, Quebec City and Montreal.

The open palms from the Quebec government and Bombardier for a huge federal injection of cash will be hard to resist. Bombardier is, of course, the author of its own misfortune over the C Series jet, which is way behind schedule, far over budget and draining cash.

Mr. Trudeau says he wants a “business case” for assisting the company. Well, he should demand one, including the end of the Bombardier family’s control through super-voting shares.

In the end, the “political case” will matter most. MPs, as they have in the past, will become the “Honorable Members from Bombardier.”


I believe the reason Mr Simpson, and the so-called Laurentian Elites, want the HST/GST returned to 7% or higher is not because it is good economics ~ although I agree that consumption taxes are always better than income taxes ~ but, rather, for what I believe is exactly the reason prime Minister Harper wanted to cut them: because they allow for free-spending, activist (intrusive) government.

I am also returning to a familiar theme, Prof Michael Bliss' notion of New Canada ~ everything West of the Ottawa River vs. Old Canada ~ everything East of it.

    (Now some members here argue that Ontario is more like Quebec and Atlantic Canada, in its voting patterns than it is like Alberta and BC. Not so. I think urban Toronto is more like urban Montreal and urban Calgary and urban Vancouver than it is like the Beauce
      or Orangeville, Red Deer or Richmond, BC: younger, less likely to be facing mortgage payments and kids hockey fees and piano lessons, and, and, and ... I also think that Ontario voters are extraordinarily centrist, firmly in the "mushy middle" on social and
      economic issues and I suspect they are, actually, tired of the Liberals but they could not bring themselves to vote for a PC Party led by Tim Hudak. If Patrick Brown has even half the brains the gods gave to green peppers then he will understand that and he will offer
      Ontario a moderate PC alternative to the old, tired Liberals and they, Ontario voters, will accept it.)

My thesis is that Quebec and Atlantic Canada (Old Canada) want, because they think they need big, free spending, activist governments. They believe in statist enterprises, in government supported Bombardiers. The folks in Orangeville and Red Deer and Richmond have different economic philosophies. They want lower taxes, more money in their own pockets, and so on.

I'm not arguing that the folks in Brampton and Burnaby want to ends the welfare state ~ far from it ~ but they do want to to pay less for it.

My guess is that a majority of Prime Minister Trudeau's advisors share my view ~ not all, maybe not even most, but enough to convince him to leave the HST/GST where it is and look for other ways to raise revenue and, then, live within those 'new means.' In other words my guess is that Old Canada will be disappointed ... again.

Here's the problem:
   
    Now
    House of Commons: 338 seats
    Old Canada:                110 seats
    New Canada:              228 seats

    After the Next Redistribution
    House of Commons: about 375 seats
    Old Canada:                    "    115 seats
    New Canada:                  "      260 seats

And so it will go until we have something like a properly distributed House with, say, about 475 seats divided ¼ (Old Canada) vs ¾ (New Canada) which will, more accurately, reflect the makeup of the country.
 
If I may, let me add here little piece of news that probably went unnoticed in the rest of Canada (as we call the other provinces here in Quebec  :)).

We currently have a "three-party" system in the province (Liberal, PQ and CAQ), but as usual the "national" question is never far off politician's mind. The Liberals, to get elected, will constantly harp on the "separation" issue at the lightest intimation it may surface again in order to get elected. This is what happened for instance in the last election after P.K. Peladeau's now famous fist pump "We want a country".

The CAQ, a fiscally conservative party (the provincial Libs here are centre-left) but socially progressive party wanted to steer the whole population away from such debate and as a result, they had adopted a policy that they would not pronounce themselves on the issue nor bring it up for at least ten years. That let them attract more right-leaning people from all parties.

This last week-end, the CAQ held its latest policy convention and has now officially taken the position that "They will not raise the national question - ever - as the idea has been clearly and definitely decided by the people of the province."

After more than thirty years since the repatriation of the Constitution, without the world coming to an end or the Quebec "Nation" disappearing from absorption into the North American English culture, and with the younger generations being much more open to the world than their parents ever were, I think we are finally seeing this debate slowly but inexorably disappearing in the background (it will never disappear completely), which will free Quebec politics to go back into a Centre-right or Centre-left two party system like most other provinces and finally be able to progress again.

This I think links into Mr. Simpson's story very usefully.

P.s.: As regards the GST tax matter, I think it is rather funny to see these reversals happen:

You may recall that  when Mulroney's Conservatives introduced the measure, the Chretien Liberals were up in arms and campaigned on the abolition of the GST. They of course then maintained it after taking power (and realizing that it is one of the most efficient Keynesian tax: In bad times, revenue from it decline as consumption is cut - forcing the government to have deficits. In good times, as consumption balloons, revenue pour in and erase the deficits. How do you think the liberals erased the deficit under Chretien/Martin? Not by good management but because Mulroney's tax worked as predicted in that good economic period).

Enter then Harper's Conservatives, who promised to reduce the GST in the good times as the deficit was erased (A mistake in my mind. He should have taken the opportunity to cut more drastically into the Income Taxes and left the stabilizing GST intact). He carried out his promise and now the Trudeau Liberals want to raise it again? Total reversal. However, I think Mr. Trudeau would be wise to act on this and raise it again to 7%. That, more than increasing the Income taxes of the top 1% of Canadians, will put him in position to carry out his promise of reducing the Income taxes of the middle class. 
 
Except, they will find a way to not lower income taxes.

Government spending will outstrip the available money (from whatever source), because there are never any shortages of "good ideas"...
 
308.com continues to entertain me greatly.

Post election poll which are utterly pointless shows

LPC 55

CPC 25

NDP 12

BQ 4

GRN 3

Trudeau should drop the writ and try this again.

In more serious news, appearantly Canadians think MacKay is the best choice for leader followed by Baird.
 
Promising to "tax the rich" is a nice populist nostrum, but in every place they have actually tired it, from France to Maryland, it never worked. The "rich" are that way because they are smart and have the resources to discover ways to shelter their wealth and income from the taxman in ways you or I do not. When various American States tried to impose a "Millionaire Tax" post 2008, they suddenly discovered that the millionaires had somehow disappeared.

In some cases, this was literally true, as millionaires took themselves and their capital and left for Texas or similarly "friendly" States. In other cases, they rearranged their financial affairs so that technically, they were no longer millionaires by whatever definition the State tax office had decreed.

Anyone thinking that wealthy Canadian's are not equally smart and driven are obviously missing out on both human nature and the peculiarity that one of Canada's founding cultures is Scottish. Governments might be free spending, but if the "rich" taxpayers are busy penny pointing at every opportunity. there will be far less to tax. (Any Rand's book Atlas Shrugged took this idea to the ultimate extreme, where the rich and productive literally went on strike and refused to work to create new wealth. "Going Galt" has a real life counterpart as well; the 1938 "Capital Strike" which was the worst year of the Great Depression). So don't look for more wealth being extracted from the "rich"; they will find non taxable ways to hold it or shelter it in trust funds, leaving the burden back on us.
 
All the stuff the Liberals want to turn back on will cost money.  When the fiscal tables are published next fall, we'll know where things stand.

Increasing GST will increase revenues, but trim back GDP growth and employment.  A genuine - not "technical" - recession is a possible outcome.  I continue to believe - due to the same litany of weak factors I've written down here before - that Canada's economy can be easily destabilized into a less favourable state (and that we lack fiscal "freedom of manoeuvre" to mitigate it), which will be hardest on people who are young, or retired, or carrying a large debt load.  If you are middle aged, employed, and debt-free, you are in the sweet spot.
 
And former "Harper aide" not guilty of influence peddling according to this story reproduced under the Fair Dealings provision of the Copyright Act.

Former Harper aide not guilty of influence-peddling

By The Canadian Press — The Canadian Press — Nov 17 2015

OTTAWA - A former top aide to Stephen Harper has been found not guilty of influence- peddling.

Bruce Carson was charged in connection with his attempts to promote the sale of water purification systems for First Nations communities by a company that employed his former escort girlfriend.

Carson's lawyer, Patrick McCann, acknowledged during the trial that his client tried to help H2O Pros sell water treatment equipment to indigenous communities.

But he argued there was nothing in law that prohibited Carson from lobbying First Nations communities.

Ontario Superior Court Justice Bonnie Warkentin has ruled that while it was clear that Carson was trying to use his influence to benefit his former girlfriend, the Crown failed to show the federal government had a direct say over what kind of water purification equipment First Nations communities can purchase.

Carson was a senior adviser to the former prime minister from the time the Conservatives took office in 2006, until he left the post in 2008.
 
"No excuses!" is the standard to which, the Globe and Mail's Lawrence Martin suggests we ought to hold the new, Trudeau government in this column which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from that newspaper:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/trudeaus-liberals-a-government-without-excuses/article27444965/
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Trudeau’s Liberals a government without excuses

LAWRENCE MARTIN
Special to The Globe and Mail

Published Tuesday, Nov. 24, 2015

You can believe whichever side you wish on the state of the nation’s financial books. You can believe new Finance Minister Bill Morneau, who says they are in a lot worse shape than the Tories let on. Or you can believe former finance minister Joe Oliver, who says the Liberals are just playing the cupboard-is-bare game. “That of course is the classic scenario when a new government comes in: ‘I’m shocked, shocked!’ ”

But even if you believe Mr. Morneau, there’s no need to send pity the Liberals’ way. There’s either no deficit or a very small one.

Similarly with the timing of terror in France, which served to call into question Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s opposition to the use of force against Islamic State. No need to send pity either.

This is a government which by comparison to others in modern Canada starts off with no excuses. They have come to power at a most auspicious time. How auspicious? You can go back almost half a century before finding another that had it so good.

The Trudeau Liberals have a majority. They have allies everywhere. They have the rare circumstance of having compatible Liberal governments in both Ontario and Quebec. They have the unusual advantage of a like-minded progressive government in Alberta. They have a liberal government in Washington under Barack Obama and, given the weirdos currently leading the Republican ticket, Hillary Clinton is likely to follow him.

Besides a budget close to balance, Mr. Trudeau’s Liberals have low interest rates, low inflation and manageable unemployment.

They have a country which finds itself, despite the divide-and-conquer politics of Stephen Harper, in an unusual state of harmony. Regional tensions are few. The separatist threat in Quebec, if not dead, is throughly diminished.

The Liberals have official Ottawa and much of the country greeting them with open arms. The restrictions on freedom of speech under the Conservatives were so deplorable that anyone taking over would be viewed as a liberator by comparison.

In terms of beneficial circumstances or lack of them, check how other governments coming to power compared.

Stephen Harper took the reins in 2006 with a fragile minority, with Liberal governments in Quebec and Ontario, with an Ottawa bureaucracy suspected of having Liberal leanings, with an Afghanistan war to contend with, with George W. Bush next door.

When Jean Chrétien was elected in 1993 he had a deficit of no less than $40-billion. He had a separatist threat in Quebec escalating at an ominous rate. He had the Bloc Québécois’s Lucien Bouchard as leader of the opposition. Discontent was rife in the West in the name of the upstart Reform Party.

Paul Martin had many advantages when he succeeded Mr. Chrétien but the Liberals had been in power 11 years, they faced internal divisions owing to the long-running Martin-Chrétien feud, and Mr. Martin was saddled with the debilitating sponsorship scandal.

Brian Mulroney won the most number of seats in history with his victory in 1984, but it was hardly all wine and roses. He inherited from Pierre Trudeau a woeful fiscal situation with debt and deficit accumulating rapidly. Quebec was a non-signatory to Mr. Trudeau’s constitutional accord.

As for Joe Clark, how would Justin Trudeau liked to have been met with his conditions? Mr. Clark had a minority, the economy was in the grip of stagflation, a referendum in Quebec was around the corner.

Arguably you have to go back all the way to Pierre Trudeau in 1968 to find another prime minister who set sail with such strong tailwinds as the Trudeau of today. The centennial year had been a blissful one. Problems in Quebec and the economy were brewing, but the country was wealthy, healthy and Canadians were entranced by the potential they saw in the northern magus.

Justin Trudeau has a low-growth economy, a low revenue stream, depressed commodity prices. No cakewalk is in store, but compared to the others, he has so little to lament, so much to build on.


It's not often that I agree with Lawrence Martin, but I think his analyses of both the current situation (domestic political peace and (relative) prosperity) and the historical record (this is the best situation facing any new prime minister since Pierre Trudeau in 1967) are accurate.

Now, the question is will Liberal supporters* and the Laurentian Elites agree? Will they say "no excuses" when, inevitably, the Liberals fail.

____
* The 15% to 20% of Canadian voters who are not part of the secure Liberal "base" but who voted Liberal because they were tired of Prime Minister Harper and his CPC?
 
ERC, I wouldn't agree completely with the above in that I'm of the opinion that recessionary/deflationary risk is greater than described, and the entire world economy remains in a weak growth period even with China running at 5-7%. I think Canada like a lot of countries have trapped themselves into a declining pool of revenue based on their dependence on personal income taxes but that might be a whole other issue.
 
suffolkowner said:
ERC, I wouldn't agree completely with the above in that I'm of the opinion that recessionary/deflationary risk is greater than described, and the entire world economy remains in a weak growth period even with China running at 5-7%. I think Canada like a lot of countries have trapped themselves into a declining pool of revenue based on their dependence on personal income taxes but that might be a whole other issue.

And Lawrence Martin concluded by saying that "Justin Trudeau has a low-growth economy, a low revenue stream, depressed commodity prices. No cakewalk is in store, but compared to the others, he has so little to lament, so much to build on." I agree with that: on balance, the domestic political situation and global and national economic situation is better than anything any PM since Pierre Trudeau inherited.


Edit: format
 
E.R. Campbell said:
"No excuses!" is the standard to which, the Globe and Mail's Lawrence Martin suggests we ought to hold the new, Trudeau government in this column which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from that newspaper:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/trudeaus-liberals-a-government-without-excuses/article27444965/

It's not often that I agree with Lawrence Martin, but I think his analyses of both the current situation (domestic political peace and (relative) prosperity) and the historical record (this is the best situation facing any new prime minister since Pierre Trudeau in 1967) are accurate.

Now, the question is will Liberal supporters* and the Laurentian Elites agree? Will they say "no excuses" when, inevitably, the Liberals fail.

____
* The 15% to 20% of Canadian voters who are not part of the secure Liberal "base" but who voted Liberal because they were tired of Prime Minister Harper and his CPC?
I'm more curious if he does great things, will the right recognize it.
 
Altair said:
I'm more curious if he does great things, will the right recognize it.

Like this:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/brad-wall-michael-fougere-react-syrian-refugee-targets-1.3335740

 
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