Politics in 2015

[SeaKingTacco]

And with talk of "carbon pricing" (basically, a tax) and phasing out of coal electricity generation, everything is about to get way more expensive. That tax cut is going to get swamped in the daily cost of living.

Inconsequential if you are a limousine liberal (partisans- note the the use of the small "l").

Not so much, for the rest of us.

 

[cavalryman]

The left hates poor people.  That's the only conclusion I can come to based on the evidence, i.e. the policies enacted by the NDP in Alberta, the Liberals in Ontario, etc, etc, that make everything more expensive and impact the working poor disproportionately, and for what?  I never thought I'd hear myself say it, but I miss the left that used to stand up for the little guy instead of pandering to the exquisite sensibilities of the latte socialists.

 

[Altair]

You missed the point. It's the hypocrisy of campaigning against income splitting, and then introducing a tax cut that works the exact same way. He's done nothing other than pull sleight of hand on the electorate, and you've bought it.

Also, I'll be giving up $2000 a year from income splitting to make that $670 (if I even get to $89k). Net loss of $1300.

income splitting helps families that have a single high income earner. The spouse that makes 400k a year while the other sits at home.

Sure, there are many variations of this, but it doesn't help much when both partners make roughly the same amount, and it doesn't help single people.

Trudeau's tax cut reaches far more individuals than income splitting could ever hope to.

I still cannot believe it. People moaning about a liberal prime minister lowering taxes. Hilarious.

 

[Altair]

The left hates poor people.  That's the only conclusion I can come to based on the evidence, i.e. the policies enacted by the NDP in Alberta, the Liberals in Ontario, etc, etc, that make everything more expensive and impact the working poor disproportionately, and for what?  I never thought I'd hear myself say it, but I miss the left that used to stand up for the little guy instead of pandering to the exquisite sensibilities of the latte socialists.

The only conclusion I can come to us that after years of trying to force pipeline projects down the American presidents throat by calling them no brainers and such have been a complete failure.

The current president, and the potential future president( hillary) will be climate hawks so it's best to get back onside and try to tackle climate change so all our energy sources are not labeled as dirty.

Also, BC, quebec and ontario all have a carbon tax, and their economies have not collapsed and the poor are not starting bread riots. I get the fear mongering, but carbon pricing is already in effect for most of the country and most don't even notice it's there.

:facepalm:

 

[a_majoor]

The only way to ensure that the working poor and middle class are going to get a benefit is to make some pretty massive cuts to government spending. Since the average Canadian family of four pays between 40-45% of their income to taxes and government fees, there is a lot of room for cutting.

A 10-15% cut in government spending and a consequent reduction in taxes and fees will be like giving Canadians a 10% raise, rather than the $50/month pittance being offered as a "tax cut" (which is, as noted, less than half of what was on the table from the previous government).

 

[cavalryman]

The only conclusion I can come to us that after years of trying to force pipeline projects down the American presidents throat by calling them no brainers and such have been a complete failure.

The current president, and the potential future president( hillary) will be climate hawks so it's best to get back onside and try to tackle climate change so all our energy sources are not labeled as dirty.

Also, BC, quebec and ontario all have a carbon tax, and their economies have not collapsed and the poor are not starting bread riots. I get the fear mongering, but carbon pricing is already in effect for most of the country and most don't even notice it's there.

:facepalm:

Oh?  I suppose you haven't been living in Ontario in the last few years, where we've all seen our electricity costs skyrocket thanks to liberal policies favouring renewables at costs way above market for very little in terms of returns. Businesses are closing because the electricity they need to operate pushes their costs up so high they lose whatever profitability they may have had, which means people are losing their jobs and of course everyone is paying an increasingly huge amount of their after tax income to light and heat the home.  Who does this impact the most?  :facepalm:  Sadly, the people who this impacts the most have little to no voice when it comes to influencing government policy.

That's what I mean when I say the left hates poor people.  A carbon tax has got nothing to do with it.  Alberta will face the same as Ontario when it shuts down its coal plants.  If the left actually gave a damn about the climate, it would be pushing for more nuclear reactors and hydro dams, not bird choppers and solar panels who are neither efficient nor environmentally friendly, but since politicians don't actually care about the environment other than using it as an excuse to expand government...

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The only conclusion I can come to us that after years of trying to force pipeline projects down the American presidents throat by calling them no brainers and such have been a complete failure.

The current president, and the potential future president( hillary) will be climate hawks so it's best to get back onside and try to tackle climate change so all our energy sources are not labeled as dirty.

Also, BC, quebec and ontario all have a carbon tax, and their economies have not collapsed and the poor are not starting bread riots. I get the fear mongering, but carbon pricing is already in effect for most of the country and most don't even notice it's there.

:facepalm:

Don't know about B.C., which I believe has a carbon tax, but Quebec, and as far as I know Ontario, don't have such tax - they have a Cap and Trade system with a Carbon Exchange located in Montreal.

 

[Altair]

Don't know about B.C., which I believe has a carbon tax, but Quebec, and as far as I know Ontario, don't have such tax - they have a Cap and Trade system with a Carbon Exchange located in Montreal.

I've always wondered about the pros and cons of each system, but thanks, good to know.

 

[PuckChaser]

income splitting helps families that have a single high income earner. The spouse that makes 400k a year while the other sits at home.

Completely wrong. Max rebate was $2000, math worked out that single income was capped at $80k to gain full benefit. I almost max it out every year, and I'm a Snr NCO in a non-spec trade. Am I high income and rich?

My spouse also doesn't just sit at home, she raises our children instead of letting the state do it.

 

[Altair]

Completely wrong. Max rebate was $2000, math worked out that single income was capped at $80k to gain full benefit. I almost max it out every year, and I'm a Snr NCO in a non-spec trade. Am I high income and rich?

My spouse also doesn't just sit at home, she raises our children instead of letting the state do it.

Good to know, the system is set up far better than I though it was.

Still doesn't help people who make the same amount of money or who are single though, so at the end of the day we're just nitpicking what tax system is better when they are both decent in their own way.

I would call it a wash and I'll stop going on about it at all as an issue.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

income splitting helps families that have a single high income earner. The spouse that makes 400k a year while the other sits at home.

Sure, there are many variations of this, but it doesn't help much when both partners make roughly the same amount, and it doesn't help single people.

Trudeau's tax cut reaches far more individuals than income splitting could ever hope to.

I still cannot believe it. People moaning about a liberal prime minister lowering taxes. Hilarious.

Your example of income splitting is ridiculous. I made just under $80,000/year and benefitted from income splitting. So I, middle class person, should be punished? Why does it matter if the cut doesn't help everyone equally? No tax cut does..

 

[Altair]

Your example of income splitting is ridiculous. I made just under $80,000/year and benefitted from income splitting. So I, middle class person, should be punished? Why does it matter if the cut doesn't help everyone equally? No tax cut does.. 

I can say the same about the liberal tax cut. Why do people care?

As for my example, yes, thank you. You and puckchaser have explained how it works and I'll withdraw that example. I still don't support it, but it's not as bad as I thought it was.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I've never income split, however, I suppose I could have and wish I had now.  Can you back date things with CRA?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Income splitting was intended to benefit families with children by treating total family income more generously.

I thought maybe the damage from Wynne's "One Ring" pension scheme (not to be dipped into by government except at the utmost end of need...right) would be confined to ON, but I have seen recent discussion about CPP expansion again.  So people didn't raise enough kids, so the solution is to tax the younger generations more heavily.  Great policy.

>Both income splitting and the liberals tax relief for the middle class are really and truly BOTH inconsequential. The liberals tax cut of $670/year is equal to the princely sum of $55.83/month....

Every time tax cuts have come up for the past couple of decades, they are always presented in terms designed to show how inconsequential they are.  But they add up.  In the past 20 years, federally: 2% points off the lowest PIT bracket, 4% points off the next (soon to be 5.5), the highest bracket split and the lower portion reduced by 3% points; and 2% points off the GST.  $3,865 full value for PIT cuts (without the pending Liberal cut and increase), plus whatever 2% of your annual GST-eligible purchases amount to.

Mitigation of anticipated policy changes began at roughly the time the networks called the election (and probably for a few people, earlier).  Measurement of effects of policy changes on the Canadian economy has to start from that point, not from 01 Jan 2016 or the date of enabling legislation.

 

[McG]

income splitting helps families that have a single high income earner. The spouse that makes 400k a year while the other sits at home.

Income splitting helps military families.  You know, the ones where one spouse cannot keep stable employment because the other spouse keeps moving around the country at the government's whim; those families that are often tucked away in relatively small communities with limited employment options (Petawawa, Bagotville, Shilo, etc).  You do not need a $400k earner in the household to have benefit from income splitting (that was a strawman argument that you bought); military families were benefiting and now they will not.

 

[Altair]

Income splitting helps military families.  You know, the ones where one spouse cannot keep stable employment because the other spouse keeps moving around the country at the government's whim; those families that are often tucked away in relatively small communities with limited employment options (Petawawa, Bagotville, Shilo, etc).  You do not need a $400k earner in the household to have benefit from income splitting (that was a strawman argument that you bought); military families were benefiting and now they will not.

And military members who aren't married will now benefit, as well as military families who will also benifits from that tax break, granted, not as much.

So I'm calling it a wash. As for the other point, screw it, I'm only apologizing once for everyone, not repeatedly for individuals.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

It benefitted my family to the tune of 2000$ last year. (My wife chose to raise our kids, rather than work full time).

That money was our family vacation this past summer.

So yes, we will notice it.

 

[Altair]

It benefitted my family to the tune of 2000$ last year. (My wife chose to raise our kids, rather than work full time).

That money was our family vacation this past summer.

So yes, we will notice it.

And those single people and couples who earn similar amounts of money will enjoy a nice tax cut now, and you will still get the benifits of a tax cut.

Seems fair to me.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I will report back after tax time and let you know if I am better off...

 

[McG]

... you will still get the benifits of a tax cut.

A lot of military families should expect to pay more this year as opposed to seeing a cut.  See again:

Also, I'll be giving up $2000 a year from income splitting to make that $670 (if I even get to $89k). Net loss of $1300.

Completely wrong. Max rebate was $2000, math worked out that single income was capped at $80k to gain full benefit. I almost max it out every year, and I'm a Snr NCO in a non-spec trade. Am I high income and rich?

My spouse also doesn't just sit at home, she raises our children instead of letting the state do it.

Income splitting kept more money in the military family with max benefit being seen at a lower income level.  It is not a wash.