"RCMP union pushes for change to help force attract talent from U.S., other countries"

[brihard]

I remember when I was new to the job market, many of the requirements and entry standards seemed artificially inflated compared to what the job entailed and were there just to prevent every Tom, Dick and Harry from applying to prevent HR departments from swimming in CV’s.

Fast forward to today where those jobs now don’t attract as many applicants. How many of those standards are necessary and how many were used to weed out all but the absolute best CV’s?

Minimum requirements in policing aren’t high, but training requirements should be, and that’s what really gets looked at for laterals.

 

[Haggis]

Some learned behaviours cannot be trained/re-trained away. As Booter alluded to, having transplanted big city US street cops wrap their heads around our use-of-force model may be a bridge too far.

 

[OldSolduer]

50 states all with their own version of a criminal code can’t be helpful either. And all those counties with their own thoughts….

 

[lenaitch]

Similarly, but obviously not on the same level, I have observed where 'big city' cops patch over to rural, deployed policing and bring the 'big city' mindset with them.

 

[mariomike]

I have observed where 'big city' cops patch over to rural, deployed policing and bring the 'big city' mindset with them.

Mindsets likely burned out by the Call Volume.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Similarly, but obviously not on the same level, I have observed where 'big city' cops patch over to rural, deployed policing and bring the 'big city' mindset with them.

A timeless movie!

 

[brihard]

Similarly, but obviously not on the same level, I have observed where 'big city' cops patch over to rural, deployed policing and bring the 'big city' mindset with them.

 

[mariomike]

"Patching over" or "doing a lateral" sounds nice for those who want to do it.

But, for the "lifer" who wants to retire from the same department they hired on with, being cooped up , possibly for the rest of your career, with a "lateral" might - or might not - be less pleasant than partnering with someone you have known for many years.

A timeless movie!

It was a great movie.

But, it wasn't a patch-over, or lateral. Tibbs got back on the train to return to Philadelphia.

 

[brihard]

"Patching over" or "doing a lateral" sounds nice for those who want to do it.

But, for the "lifer" who wants to retire from the same department they hired on with, being cooped up , possibly for the rest of your career, with a "lateral" might - or might not - be less pleasant than partnering with someone you have known for many years.



It was a great movie.

But, it wasn't a patch-over, or lateral. Tibbs got back on the train to return to Philadelphia.

Maybe a generational thing, but laterals are super normal and I don’t think anyone has any real issue with them save for maybe some management who are cranky to be on the losing side. In policing there’s likely a lot more career movement than in paramedicine where you can from. I’m ‘field training’ a lateral right now; dude’s new to my team’s specialty, but has the better part of two decades’ service with another organization- more than I myself have. There’s no grief being given by anyone.

 

[mariomike]

Of course you are right. Must be a generational thing.

RCMP has 40,000 + ( According to wiki ) spread over almost 4 million square miles.

With only 243 square miles, it was inevitable our generation got to know each other.

It was like a , sometimes dysfunctional, family. It was much smaller in the early days.

I didn't really like all of those guys back then. But, today, I love every damn one of them.

Probably for the most selfish reason of all, we were young together. < smile emoji

 

[brihard]

Of course you are right. Must be a generational thing.

RCMP has 40,000 + ( According to wiki ) spread over almost 4 million square miles.

With only 243 square miles, it was inevitable our generation got to know each other.

It was like a , sometimes dysfunctional, family. It was much smaller in the early days.

I didn't really like all of those guys back then. But, today, I love every damn one of them.

Probably for the most selfish reason of all, we were young together. < smile emoji

I’m not just talking RCMP, but all police services. If I had to take a wild guess I’d say RCMP lose a lot more people to laterals out than they gain to laterals in, but that’s purely anecdotal from people I know who are or were there. Any service like RCMP or OPP will probably always have some attrition of people looking to geographically stabilize in a larger center.

 

[RedFive]

Maybe a generational thing, but laterals are super normal and I don’t think anyone has any real issue with them save for maybe some management who are cranky to be on the losing side. In policing there’s likely a lot more career movement than in paramedicine where you can from. I’m ‘field training’ a lateral right now; dude’s new to my team’s specialty, but has the better part of two decades’ service with another organization- more than I myself have. There’s no grief being given by anyone.

There's a fair bit of anger out here where the E Division Experienced Officer Program has enjoyed a lot of success filling those kinds of jobs people work their asses off for, like ERT, CFSEU, IHIT, and FSOC, whereas career Mounties are being left to slog it out on GD

For some weird, indescribable reason they aren't having the same luck filling general duty spots with EPOs. Weird.

 

[mariomike]

There's a fair bit of anger out here < snip >

Sounds like they don't use the Senior Qualified Process.

 

[brihard]

There's a fair bit of anger out here where the E Division Experienced Officer Program has enjoyed a lot of success filling those kinds of jobs people work their asses off for, like ERT, CFSEU, IHIT, and FSOC, whereas career Mounties are being left to slog it out on GD

For some weird, indescribable reason they aren't having the same luck filling general duty spots with EPOs. Weird.

Ouch, I didn’t realize it was that egregious.

Any feel for how many of those laterals are already in those specialty units (I know a lot of them are integrated) and are pitching over without changing jobs? Not that that makes it better but I wonder if it’s a factor.

 

[RedFive]

Ouch, I didn’t realize it was that egregious.

Any feel for how many of those laterals are already in those specialty units (I know a lot of them are integrated) and are pitching over without changing jobs? Not that that makes it better but I wonder if it’s a factor.

A good number already hold a position in the integrated units. When their municipal department calls them up and tells them they're coming home (usually after their 5 year stint is complete), they badge over immediately when promised they'll be allowed to stay. Which is great for them, and at the end of the day great for the RCMP because we get a trained specialty unit member at almost no up-front cost but then their spot becomes RCMP, and the muni spot opens up. -1 opportunity for any Mountie that wants a job in that Unit.

For the non-integrated units, I've taught EPO "Troops" at PRTC where they've hired exceptionally experienced former muni's to fill a variety of spots, and they're all, at least to my knowledge, good and valuable employees. It's just the fact that an EPO hired is a career Mountie denied that's angering the folks stuck in contract positions who went RCMP for the "other" side of policing.

I can also sit back and appreciate that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't, and nothing would be worse than not changing anything to try and improve the overall staffing situation.

 

[Booter]

E division has been looking to fill fed spots with munis rather than giving GD rcmp members cracks at things like the fed border crew. Promising those positions to laterals with very low experience in some cases.

Members in E should be upset, that said- management doesn’t care if they are. So it’s wasted energy.

 

[lenaitch]

Mindsets likely burned out by the Call Volume.

Not from my experience. More of learning that many of the people you deal with on a regular basis are often neighbours. In large urban services, unless they are frequent fliers, the chances of dealing with someone more that once in your career are statistically low. It's actually the same with members moving from city highway patrol detachments to rural detachments. The guy you treated like a dick might be the same guy you need in a tow truck at 0300.

Maybe a generational thing, but laterals are super normal and I don’t think anyone has any real issue with them save for maybe some management who are cranky to be on the losing side. In policing there’s likely a lot more career movement than in paramedicine where you can from. I’m ‘field training’ a lateral right now; dude’s new to my team’s specialty, but has the better part of two decades’ service with another organization- more than I myself have. There’s no grief being given by anyone.

The OPP will typically run 3 or 4 'direct hire' classes a year (depending on funding). Everybody goes to the field. It is very, very rare that a direct hire from another service will go straight into a specialty unless they bring something really special to the table. Anecdotal only but I don't get the sense that the OPP loses many to other services.

The animosity between services is a lot less than it used to be. Some services, like Toronto, used to get really pissy about training people who would then turn around and leave - not just to the OPP but to other municipal services - but it seems to have settled down. Pension portability between the province and municipal services was a complicating roadblock for a long time but that has been sorted out. I'm not sure if it has with the feds but it might be.

There was a period when many services were accepting direct hires with rank, particularly during the heyday of 'targeted hiring'. There wasn't a lot of it and I think everyone finally realized that it wasn't worth it. I recall one S/Sgt. in particular we (the OPP) brought over from a municipal service and I swear to this day said service still send us a Christmas card.

 

[mariomike]

In large urban services, unless they are frequent fliers, the chances of dealing with someone more that once in your career are statistically low.
/QUOTE]

That's a fact.

Toronto Police Call Volume was discussed here way back in 2012.

I've been retired for over 16 years, but I doubt the 9-1-1 call volume in this city has decreased since then.

J

Thread 'Call Volume'

11 Feb 2012

Just curious as to what would be the majority of calls an MP would receive, and what would they spend the most time on? Traffic? Assaults? Thefts etc. and does it vary from element to element i.e. army to navy to air force?

How many calls would you average in a shift?

Just a professional curiosity. In Toronto every division gets a little bit of everything, but the downtown divisions will get more drugs, edp's, homeless etc, and the burbs will get more domestics and b and e's.

Working in 52 Division you could answer 20 calls in a 10 hour shift but working in 33 Division you could answer...

• jim7966
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Military Police Branch

A Toronto Police member had this to say,

Judging by the event numbers issued for each call/arrest in Toronto we averaged 100,000.00 calls per month. That's city wide but only includes calls where a car was dispatched or an arrest made. It wouldn't include walk ins or things that were handled over the phone.

 

[Booter]

Not from my experience. More of learning that many of the people you deal with on a regular basis are often neighbours. In large urban services, unless they are frequent fliers, the chances of dealing with someone more that once in your career are statistically low. It's actually the same with members moving from city highway patrol detachments to rural detachments. The guy you treated like a dick might be the same guy you need in a tow truck at 0300.


The OPP will typically run 3 or 4 'direct hire' classes a year (depending on funding). Everybody goes to the field. It is very, very rare that a direct hire from another service will go straight into a specialty unless they bring something really special to the table. Anecdotal only but I don't get the sense that the OPP loses many to other services.

The animosity between services is a lot less than it used to be. Some services, like Toronto, used to get really pissy about training people who would then turn around and leave - not just to the OPP but to other municipal services - but it seems to have settled down. Pension portability between the province and municipal services was a complicating roadblock for a long time but that has been sorted out. I'm not sure if it has with the feds but it might be.

There was a period when many services were accepting direct hires with rank, particularly during the heyday of 'targeted hiring'. There wasn't a lot of it and I think everyone finally realized that it wasn't worth it. I recall one S/Sgt. in particular we (the OPP) brought over from a municipal service and I swear to this day said service still send us a Christmas card.

The OPP is very upfront that you are going to frontline policing and usually to a harder to staff place. It works for them.

 

[brihard]

The OPP is very upfront that you are going to frontline policing and usually to a harder to staff place. It works for them.

Some pretty decent financial incentives for doing so too, I believe?