• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy

[quote author=Naval Reservist]However, this in an online forum and freedom to express my opinions is something I hold dear.
[/quote]

A couple years ago, I was instructing a course at CFNOS(Hfx) and an unhappy student posted a disgruntled comment online. By stand easy, he was hauled into the Chief's office and "advised" to adjust his post before the end of lunch.

It can and does happen that fast IRL.
 
Hamish Seggie said:
And you are correct. Disciplinary and administrative measures may be used. Banning a legal substance is a lazy way of dealing with issues like this.

IMO it will take an Admiral with big brass ones to reinstate your old policy, or temper this one.

To be fair, I tend to agree this wasn't a CRCN decision; I was onboard when he sailed a few times as CCFL, and also have met him a few times more recently, and this doesn't really seem like his leadership style.  My impression is that left up to his own devices the Navy would have come down hard on the guilty parties, there would have been a lot of briefings and reminders of the policies and consequences.

Aside from being very competent, he's a really reasonable and quite personable guy with a good dose of common sense, and one of those leaders that really gets people working together to get work done, but have fun as well. 

I'm guessing this is probably more of a Minister/PMO driven decision for making a nice headline and winning a few votes.  Seems kind of their style.
 
Naval Reservist said:
It's funny, I thought the whole point of a non-affiliated forum was to engage in discussion and share opinions. The fact that im an OS really shouldnt matter here (please read this post about use of rank on the forum http://army.ca/forums/threads/64170.0.html). As per my right, in a working enviorment while onduty or likewise you would be right. However, this in an online forum and freedom to express my opinions is something I hold dear.

On a more related note; after discussions here it seems the opinions I formed about Admiral Norman based on what has been talked about in the mess were fortunatly wrong. Thanks to the fact I shared my opinion I have learned a great deal about the Admiral. I dont regret what I said at all, even if my view of him has or has not changed.

You are correct that you are free to express your opinions. However with that freedom comes the responsibility that it is a well informed opinion and not grumbling going around the mess or some other forum where people would rather bitch and blow off steam than have meaningful discussions.

The point that the well seasoned navy types have made is that you really have a limited amount of life experience in the Navy. They are not trying to stifle your right to express an opinion. They are merely trying to give you sound advice about when to do so, and when not to.

Take it as a lesson to be learned.

(Damn. Should have kept reading the posts. Didn't mean to pile on.)
 
Halifax Tar said:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/hmcs-calgary-officer-charged-with-drunkenness-disobeying-orders-1.2239963

Whoops.  Some one just stirred the pot again!
... and he is found not guilty.  But, this looks more like an example of prosecution failing and not so much a matter of the accused did nothing wrong:
Naval officer found not guilty in groping case
Richard Watts
Times Colonist
August 15, 2016

A senior Canadian naval officer who was alleged to have groped the buttocks of an American coast guard sailor was found not guilty of all charges on Monday.

Following a court martial trial last week at CFB Esquimalt, military judge Col. Mario Dutil ruled the prosecution had failed to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" charges against Cmdr. Joshua Yanchus.

The prosecution had alleged that Yanchus:

  • disobeyed the lawful command of a senior officer, the captain of HMCS Calgary
  • conducted himself in a way that would prejudice good order and discipline
  • engaged in drunkenness.

Yanchus is now serving in Ottawa on the Strategic Joint Staff, which provides military analysis and advice to the Chief of Defence Staff. But the charges relate to a time when he was still a lieutenant commander, and the second in command of HMCS Calgary.

All three charges relate to events on June 25, 2014, when HMCS Calgary was tied up in Hawaii following a 16-day crossing to join RIMPAC 2014.

RIMPAC is a major international military exercise of Pacific Nations, led by the U.S. navy. That year, it involved forces from 20 countries and 45 warships.

It was alleged that Yanchus disobeyed an order from HMCS Calgary's captain prohibiting "mixed messing," or officers, petty officers and seamen mingling in one another's messes, areas of a ship where celebrations can occur.

It was alleged that while at the junior ranks' mess, Yanchus groped the buttocks of and kissed a female U.S. Coast Guard sailor, who was never called to testify, and that he engaged in drunken behaviour, stumbling and moving without co-ordination.

Testimony from enlisted sailors varied widely, however.

One sailor testified that Yanchus and the U.S. Coast Guard sailor danced respectfully and he pecked her on the cheek at the end.

Another said the two were "necking" while sitting at the bar. Another said that, while dancing, Yanchus kissed the woman while running his hands along her back and buttocks.

Dutil said he found the testimony that Yanchus was touching, kissing and necking with the U.S. Coast Guard sailor unreliable.

He said he doesn't believe the witnesses deliberately lied, but that their testimony could not be relied upon.

The military judge said evidence showed the Calgary's captain did give an order to prohibit mixed messing.

But it is an accepted practice for mess presidents, those appointed to administer their messes, to offer special invitations to members of other messes.

On the day of the alleged offences, the wardroom, the officers' mess, had invited the president of the junior ranks mess in for drink. The same invitation was then extended to Yanchus to attend the junior ranks' mess.

During the court martial, Yanchus took the stand and testified he had no memory of even being in the seamen's mess.

But Dutil said since he heard no medical testimony or evidence detailing how much alcohol Yanchus had consumed, it would not be possible to rule that he had suffered a drunken blackout.

"The fact somebody says he cannot remember is evidence of lack of memory, not necessarily the result of intoxication," he said.

After the verdict, Commodore Buck Zwick, commander of the Canadian Pacific Fleet, said allegations of harassment or poor behaviour will be investigated, and if warranted, charges will be laid, regardless of rank.

"We have to ensure that our people receive the best leadership possible," said Zwick. 
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/former-officer-on-hmcs-calgary-found-not-guilty-in-court-martial-1.2323412

 
Of course, one's memory does begin to fade a bit AFTER TWO YEARS!!!! Perhaps it really is a prosecution problem - why is it taking this long for Courts Martial to be held?

Think about that.

Two years - the accused on pins and needles.

Victims waiting for some resolution... closure... whatever.

Witnesses... memories fading. Released, posted to Dubai, the Golan Heights, at sea in a ship somewhere...

Plus... for fun... all these people get posted to other places while we wait... then some poor unit, who doesn't even know the ins and outs of the case, is stuck dealing with staffing up the whole process - Officers of the Court, Duty NCOs and all the other crap.

Two words... streamline

You see what I did there. :)
 
Would he have been convicted based on a balance of probabilities? I have a strong feeling if it were a summary trial, he'd already be found guilty, fined, and the matter closed.
 
PuckChaser said:
Would he have been convicted based on a balance of probabilities? I have a strong feeling if it were a summary trial, he'd already be found guilty, fined, and the matter closed.

Which just might be why it ended up in Court Martial; election.

At a unit I may or may not have worked at, a member elected court martial for drug possession, because he was afraid that the CO had a real hate on for drugs (he thought he'd throw the book at him), and he felt that a military judge would given him a sentence more in-line with what would happen in the civilian world.

Sometimes you can't streamline the system.
 
Pusser said:
Two of those rows of ribbons appear to be Legion and perhaps Navy League medals?  If so, they may be legitimate and they are being worn on his right breast, which would be correct.  As the other side, they appear to be Golden and Diamond Jubilee medals and perhaps a Commissionaire long service medal?  These too could be legitimate and if they are, they are being worn correctly.

Having said that, I'm not sure the Navy League has a white tunic in their orders of dress, but the shoulder flashes are definitely wrong.  He's wearing RCN shoulder flashes, not Navy League ones.  Also, the correct rank title/abbreviation for a lieutenant in the Navy League is Lt(NL).

Legit or not...wearing DEUs of any shape or form in a strip club is definitely questionable conduct.  Not sure the legal avenues of the navy league. I just know heads will roll if something like this happened in the reg force today and the media seen it .
 
Another problem is most of the MSM can't tell the difference. Any uniform with Canada on the shoulder means CAF. Similar to them calling anything with a gun and turret, tracked or not, a tank.
 
gryphonv said:
Legit or not...wearing DEUs of any shape or form in a strip club is definitely questionable conduct

Woah woah tabernac!  That is fleet week heresy!  ;D

Generally not a good idea though, particularity in whites.  Those get stains while hanging in the closet in a protective suit bag.  They are a nightmare, and you look like you are trying to sell garbage bags and/or icecream.  And that's ignoring the possibility of media running a story.
 
Navy_Pete said:
Woah woah tabernac!  That is fleet week heresy!  ;D

Generally not a good idea though, particularity in whites.  Those get stains while hanging in the closet in a protective suit bag.  They are a nightmare, and you look like you are trying to sell garbage bags and/or icecream.  And that's ignoring the possibility of media running a story.

Ruined many a set of whites during a rigger run ashore, and I may have be in a strip club or two or three. That was the good old days when we were allowed to have fun. Now not so much.
 
Chief Stoker said:
Ruined many a set of whites during a rigger run ashore, and I may have be in a strip club or two or three. That was the good old days when we were allowed to have fun. Now not so much.

A recent fleet week a buddy of mine was on. They were told they were not allowed to drink in uniform while in New York.

Times have changed
 
That's fucking bullshit!!!  No wonder morale is taking hits.  Thank Christ my sailing days are done.
 
jollyjacktar said:
That's ******* bullshit!!!  No wonder morale is taking hits.  Thank Christ my sailing days are done.

Last year, first night in no uniforms allowed ashore. You could drink in uniform at sanctioned events however do not get drunk. Whites allowed ashore but no whites after 2300. This year its sounds like things got progressively worse in regards to restrictions.
 
Does our leadership not realize that if you treat your people like children they will act like children? The funniest thing about all this is that the ones in position to make these calls were the hardest runners ashore when they were subbies and jr Lieutenants.
 
recceguy said:
So, are we about to watch the RCN return to rum, sodomy and the lash?

We need to start press ganging people!  It could be a way to help the government finally meet one of their 'aspirational recruiting goals  :D
 
There's a joke here about thinking the RCN never gave up 2 of those things. But that's probably enough derailment for now.

Do we even have a "Why can't I drink in the RCN anymore?" thread? Mariomike?  >:D
 
PuckChaser said:
There's a joke here about thinking the RCN never gave up 2 of those things. But that's probably enough derailment for now.

Do we even have a "Why can't I drink in the RCN anymore?" thread? Mariomike?  >:D

An increase in the other two to compensate for the lack of one  :rofl:
 
PuckChaser said:
Do we even have a "Why can't I drink in the RCN anymore?" thread? Mariomike?  >:D

RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/117268.25
8 pages.
 
Back
Top