Really Cool Fitness Initiative

[17thRecceSgt]

I'm not from LFAA.  What is AIME?  Is that like a CPR doll?

Surprises?  Cool!  I love surprises (like the Reserve pension).

I am from LFAA.  Believe me, you don't want to know about AIME... :

A CPR doll has a use...thats the difference...

Back to your regular scheduled issue on PT in the Reserves...

 

[Haggis]

Of course, getting back to Haggis' quote, I choose to see it as a lifestyle issue because that's more acceptable to my male ego than admitting that if I didn't run, my g/f would kick my ***. 

If people put as much effort into doing PT as they do into avoiding it, we wouldn't be where we are today.

 

[orange.paint]

Also the people who plan courses and forget to plan in pt.Thats just wrong.Or days at the hanger when it just "too busy for PT" and you finish all the mornings work by 10h00 anyway.

 

[54/102 CEF]

We're in 100% agreement here.  ..........I don't think we can afford the class A time a real fitness regimen would cost; we'd have to at least double the 37.5 days. 

It may be counter productive - despite good intentions - to pay to train for PT alone - out of the current pool of aval trg money.

Everybody who dances around the question of getting something for nothing is wasting everyone else's time. As Ray Liotta says in the Deniro Gangster movie "Goodfella's" - PAY ME.

I come up with a PT requirement of 3 hours per week x 52 weeks a year = 24 mandays @ 6.5 hrs effective work per day

Based on my near brush with an EXPRESS exemption (after I will admit too much time slacking) I figure you`d need to factor in

for Class A Trg  - 3 hours per week - has to be 1 hour per trg day - if you don`t have consistent time to do that - ie: Monday Wed Fri - with a PERI egging you on - you probably won't do it on your own to achieve what the supervising PERI will consistently achieve. As many have said - we can try - eg community sourced 3rd party managed program - because if a person in green can use a 9mm pencil on the ranges they will fiddle on the PT.

So give it to a Phys Ed Program at the local highschool - take attendance - have a bi weekly practise test - track progress - and when the CF Reservists pass their semi annual Express Test (Australian Reserves do 2 X a year I am told) - they get 12 days pay or a chit for a tax free bonus to equalise it up to a max of 24 days a year. Miss your test - thats OK - keep trg - but no $ until you pass - as I am told its a 90 day wait until your next test. Getting it right the first time generates a more important soldier skill - a sense of urgency. That will cause the bean counters to take notice. When the Express Test Fund cashes out the CDS will have a pretty good indicator that troops are serious. Seems a good payoff for dedication. If you don't pass the test - and don't have a medical chit - keep trg until you do.

Summary

Have an arms length deal with a non CF tester trainer if the CF cannot get itself organised to provide the EXPRESS TRG program for reserves year round. Old timers tell me that there used to be something called Unit Phys Ed Cpl ...... details are hazy. This could easily be brought back - and quickly.

One things for sure - Reserves are very capable of a wide range of jobs that do not require front end Taliban Experience. 4 local reserve Infantry Mcpls and an Engr Res Mcpl just ran 47 of us through Basic Gas Hut and Standard First Aid in Ottawa last week. To me thats way more demanding than supervising what you need to pass Express Test.

Sense of Urgency
A little managed Risk

Voila! A training puzzle solved.

 

[brihard]

My company's got a simple and direct approach to this issue this year. The CO was able to get funds authorized for a second training night per week; on Monday nights, those who can make it in show up, do a couple weekends of PT/ancilliary 'gucci' training, and get a half days pay. I quickly started kicking myself in the head for signing up for a monday night history elective.

Our unit has the same plan as others- PT testing every few months, dire threats if performance doens't improve. Not quite sure what the nature of the stick is, and I've not seen a carrot, but at least it's being noticed. Perosnally I pulled on my ruck and did a 5km run along the river yesterday- God my legs hurt. If I can ruck run the 5km again at the Run for the Cure on Sunday though, I'll feel pretty bloody good about myself. I plan to run with the ruck more often; I can run distance no sweat, but the extra weight changes the nature of the workout entirely.

The reserves, unfortuantely, will always be prone to laziness and apathy among certain memebrs of the junior ranks. That's unfortunate and more or less inevitable. Hopefully we can motivate enough of a solid core (and retain them) that as the slackers enlist and release we won't really notice them passing through.

 

[54/102 CEF]

Threats, unit initiatives ---- all in all a quest to make everyone better

In any organisation it helps to have a clear picture of what a basic level of achiveable fitness is.

Here`s the Ontario Plice Fitness Award Program - looks curiously like the Express test

http://www.police.london.ca/Employment/cadet/PDFs/Fitness_OPFA.pdf

Every Armoury in the country has 20 metres - all weather year round training now achievable! WE CAN DO THIS!

 

[orange.paint]

Or as i alluded to in another forum take the "warrior platoon" money and invest it into our reserve armouries on soldiers who can pass express test.

 

[54/102 CEF]

Or

Everyone is formally shown how to do the exercises and keep records of their performance pointing to their repective goals

3 months elapse - do your physical prep

The first test - all who pass get 12 days pay

6 months later the second test - all who pass get 12 days pay

Repeat every 6 months

Expand the physical side on courses or attachments to reg force.

Keep it simple and it will work

Fill it up with administrators and endless reports up the line and it will go where everything else goes - when the man in the red suit and hot temperatures lives ---------- AYCH EEE DOUBLE ELL 

 

[Gunnerlove]

Pass the BFT get a cheque (same amount regardless of rank or component). You get tested once a year, pass or fail. Make it forces wide (all branches Reg and Res) and watch the dreams of a new TV or ???????? drag the sloths off the couch.

If you want the money you will get off your a**, train and show up to be tested.
Connect the cash to the pass. Not the training. No points or pay for taking part in any training, if you want the money you earn the reward.

Now as for a Bounty system for showing up for unit training in the reserves that is a separate issue.

 

[Cote]

The CF shouldn't have to pay soldiers to be in shape. As civilians we pay to get in shape in forms of gym memberships, equiptment, and time lost (if your really busy). Taken from a larger view point it looks silly having to pay reserve soldiers to stay fit.

 

[keaner]

The CF shouldn't have to pay soldiers to be in shape.

A+

 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

The CF shouldn't have to pay soldiers to be in shape. As civilians we pay to get in shape in forms of gym memberships, equiptment, and time lost (if your really busy). Taken from a larger view point it looks silly having to pay reserve soldiers to stay fit.

..........does your civilian job toss you out if your not in shape?.........Apples and oranges.

 

[badlieutenant]

This is goddam pathetic....

First of all, you should be in shape because it`s your duty as a soldier and it serves your best interests if you should ever be sent into combat.
Second, and this goes out to the younger soldiers, if you aren`t in shape, what the hell are you doing in the army? this isn`t a country club...
I really resent the fact that the military has to resort to measures such as bribery (the half days pay initiative) and fat camp (the VO2 max pre-basic training program) in order to maintain numbers. In my eyes, this is simply a lack of drive...sort your shit out, lay off the donuts and take pride in being a FIT soldier...simply throwing on a uniform doesn`t automatically make you a ninja commando...
I know this may come off as harsh, but i just want everyone in the forces, and especially the combat arms folks, to accept nothing less but the best from themselves, and to remember that fitness isn`t a bonus in forces, its a duty...hit the gym more and worry less about claim forms for extra out-of shape pay

 

[17thRecceSgt]

That opinion works for Reg Frce and Fulltime P Res types...what about the Class A soldiers?

Can't paint everyone with the same brush...

Physical training is required to maintain physical fitness right?

Weapons training is requires to maintain proficiency with weapons.  Right?

Why, if PT/physically fitness TRAINING is done, would it not be the same as weapons training?  We pay em for going to the range...or whatever else they do.

Thats what I don't get.  No one has trouble paying Reservists to go the range and TRAIN with weapons.  If a CO of a unit is going to pay his troops to TRAIN physically...whats the difference?  Training is training.  Should we tell the Class A types to go to the local paintball place and "train" there, not pay them and then not see the results we want?

This issue is specific to Class A troops, IMHO.  The fulltime butterballs, Reg or Res are a different issue.

Training is training.  If a Reservist trains, they get paid.  If they don't train, they don't get paid.

Why make the PT training the part that they don't get paid for?  Reg Frce and Class B/C reserves get paid for this training...

???

 

[orange.paint]

That's what I don't get.  No one has trouble paying Reservists to go the range and TRAIN with weapons.  If a CO of a unit is going to pay his troops to TRAIN physically...whats the difference?  Training is training.  Should we tell the Class A types to go to the local paintball place and "train" there, not pay them and then not see the results we want?

Ranges...whats that?
I don't thinkthat's a very good analogy actually.It's actually the same problem,only with diffdifferentects of army life.Lack of training equals lack of results from the troops.However,from my point of view I could care less if Cpl mcblobby does his job anymore.It's nice to see the initiatives in place for class A guys,but I have learned over the past year that no canforgen/orders/guns to heads will fix our obese problem.

We were all quite excited on the aspect of the new canforgen last Christmas I remember people logging on here and being totally for it or against it.Wondering how it applied to them,their trade
and component.As I can see nothing has changed from higher.A few senior NCO's that I know took it and ran with it at section/troop level having mixed results from their subordinates.Those who wanted to improve,emulate their superiors did so.Those who did not want to improve took different direction,which could not be enforced upon due to other DND policy' such as harassment.Some people actually got charged for trying to motivate people on runs.IE "come on catch up."

If the west novies are doing this great.Do I believe it will help fitness of class A reservist?Not really.But if a few of these people benefit,all the power to them.It seems a lot of the time (myself included)we worry too much where the moneys coming from, who gets a piece of the pie,and how do I get some.

I suggest all senior per's (mcpl-up)look at themselves.You are what your troops will either strive to become or strive to never become.Be inspirational.Because when you really look at it it isnt the troop leader,OC,CO that has direct enforcement of physical conditioning it's us.CO's may put policy's in place(or in this case make new fitnesst initiatives) if the NCM's don't embrace it,it will fail.I know as a young trooper if someone was bitching about this new fitness problem,I would proably be online with them.Why?Youth are easily lead when it comes to senior people.Senior people could be the fat cpl in the smoking area.The canforgen would get rid of these people if followed corrcorrectly alas nothing.Hence NEVER establishing a society of fitness within our army I am so proud to  be a part of.

Taking in unfit people and expecting them to get fit,not releasing those who are not up to standard.Deploying fat per's who cannot meet standards,if far from a society of fitness.

cheers all

 

[54/102 CEF]

This is goddam pathetic....
its a duty...hit the gym more and worry less about claim forms for extra out-of shape pay

Very good points except all soldiers currently inside the perimeter all came from outside - and they are all vulnerable to a degree to all the sloth and indolence of the real world. Leadership only has them for a time........ eg: ride the bus to work, walk down the hallway - look at your own family get together - count up all who don`t look like your mental image - I bet its about 30% pudgy - 30% going pudgy ---- see whats waiting for you when you let up? That's where the soldiers come from. So we cajole and lead to make it easier for all to follow the path of fitness......

To quote that all time favorite movie Pulp Fiction

Jules, played by Samuel L. Jackson, is the thoughtful, spiritually-oriented half of a team of thug assassins. Before Jules "offs" people, they get treated to some scripture, Ezek 25:17:

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. (TV, TIMS, Sit on your a$$ society) Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children (That's the Leadership). And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." http://www.unomaha.edu/jrf/2004Symposium/Denzey.htm

So once again we get to the old saw of there are no bad soldiers - its always about leaders leading.

 

[keaner]

So once again we get to the old saw of there are no bad soldiers - its always about leaders leading.

No, it isn't. It's about being accountable to yourself, it's about maintaining your fitness level because it  a requirement of a good soldier....because someone who is responsible does the right thing whether or not someone watches him or pays him to do it....whether A, B, C class or Reg.


...and before anyone jumps down my throat with.."its not a requirement"...I understand it is technically legal to be a slob the whole year and scrape out an Express test once every 12 months. My definition of "requirement" is that we should all be fit to fight, and if you aren't find another job.

Think of it this way: If you are failing - or barely passing - the CF fitness tests, would you want someone like you to be responsible for your life?

 

[Synthos]

Instead of paying a member for X hours of PT on their own time... Make a standard for your unit and give a day or two days pay (or gucci kit) to all the members that pass that standard. If this is done monthly, that would seem fair to me. Some people (probably not me >_<) who spend around 6-7 hours weekly on their own PT. That's 24-28 hours per month of PT, or 3-3.5 days (8 hours/day) of unpaid time. Compensating a days pay/month for meeting an extra high standard sounds nice.

The only thing I might have issue with is that why certain people (higher ranks) would  receive more money for meeting the same standards as Joe the private. Since this pay is intended to compensate people for their time outside of the military, is the Pte's personal time worth less than the Cpl?