Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society

[midget-boyd91]

Living in this part of the world has it's very nice advantages. Everyone, including military folks, are entitled to worship who and how they believe in... even if that is nobody. Everyone is entitled to raise their own children how they please (within the law of course) and once those children become adults, they are entitled to worship who and how they believe, even if that turns out to be nobody.
My two little coins worth.

 

[tomahawk6]

Last I knew the U.S was founded on separation of "Church and State".  That religion no matter what the denominations, is forbidden in the government.  The government does not support religious churches, schools and even to the point of law suits to prohibit religious displays on government/state property during the holiday season.

I believe one should practice their own set of beliefs without pressing them on others.

emma

Actually that is a myth perpetrated by the liberals/left.Nowhere in our constitution is it stated that there would be a seperation of church and state.

http://www.lc.org/resources/separation.html

This country was established upon the assumption that religion was essential to good government. On July 13, 1787, the Continental Congress enacted the Northwest Ordinance, which stated: "Religion, morality and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall be forever encouraged."

 

[Jarnhamar]

Good luck in leading the charge then!

Just have to have faith

 

[hippie]

Piper,

I couldn't have said it better myself.  WELL SAID.  I believe there is absolutely no place for religion in todays enlightened world.  I am a strong believer that religion is the cause for almost every major human conflict in history.  Everything always boils down to religion.  For example, would we be in Afghanistan right now if it wasn't for religion?  Absolutely not.  As long as the muslim fundamentalists believe that the ISAF forces are 'Christian Crusaders' (which is absolutely ridiculous), there's going to be conflict.

We even insisted that our kids go as well.

I would call this brainwashing.

I have no respect for those that dont believe in anything but themselves.

I have no respect for someone that can't think for themselves.

My parents had a rule which I adopted with my own kids - as long as you live under my roof you follow my rules. Attending church was one of those. As adults they are free to do their own thing, but guess what they go to church as well and take their kids with them.

Again, more brainwashing.

I don't mean to slag on you tomahawk6, I just don't think you need to believe in some imaginary friend in the sky to be a good person and exercise good morales.  As long as there are people out there that insist on raising their kids based on some ancient, irrelavant text, (I'm talking all religions, not just christianity), we are going to have problems. 

We would ALL be way better off if there was no such thing as religion.  Don't get me wrong, alot of the values the reglions teach are great.  But you don't need to be brainwashed to fear hellfire and damnnation in order to be a good person. 

It was refreshing to read Piper's post.  It was a breath of fresh air!!

 

[tomahawk6]

With that enlightened post I think its time to shut this thread down. 8)

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Everyone just back their truck up a little bit and relax. We're getting dangerously close to contraveneing guidelines with some of this stuff. If you can't discuss this without being personal, stay away from it. I, and many others, have had their fill of the religious threads and the constant bickering by the zealots on all sides, over the past little while.

Knock it off. No more warnings. They start getting locked from now on.

 

[Jarnhamar]

My parents had a rule which I adopted with my own kids - as long as you live under my roof you follow my rules. Attending church was one of those. As adults they are free to do their own thing, but guess what they go to church as well and take their kids with them. I have three sons [26,28 and 30] who have served in Iraq/Afghanistan and I think faith has helped them get through the tough times that go hand in glove with service in a combat zone. Anyway we all make our choices in life. I am satisfied with mine as I hope you are in yours.

I am brother, I appreciate your to each their own outlook!

Religion is an interesting thing.

If ones parents are religious, and they raise their children under set rules (church on sunday) then chances are said child will mimic ones parents beliefs and practices.
Now you can say well when they ae an adult they can make their own choice.
True to an extent but ones up bringing will still HEAVILY influence their choice.
I've spoken with friends about this.
"I KNOW God Exists, okay? He gave his only son to save you. You MUST accept him into your heart or your going to hell".
The only reason they believe this is because THAT is what they were taught to believe growing up.
Do you think a child raised in Iran under islamic parents would believe the same thing? No way. It's gonna be all about Allah. THEY will know ISLAM is the true religion.  Children will more often than not believe what their parents believed.
So in essence, making your children go to church is going a long way to forcing religion on them.

 

[hippie]

Everyone just back their truck up a little bit and relax. We're getting dangerously close to contraveneing guidelines with some of this stuff. If you can't discuss this without being personal, stay away from it. I, and many others, have had their fill of the religious threads and the constant bickering by the zealots on all sides, over the past little while.

Knock it off. No more warnings. They start getting locked from now on.

Roger, sorry about that tomahawk6, I just get typing and things start getting away on me.  It's very easy when it comes to this kind of topic to go flying off the handle.  Nothin personal buddy!  8)

 

[tomahawk6]

o in essence, making your children go to church is going a long way to forcing religion on them.

Not sure if you have kids, but parents make alot of decisions for their kids when to go to bed, doing home work, chores around the house, choice of friends and many others. This is also like having the kids eat a balanced meal. Going to church helps to form a belief system and there are social aspects as well. Alot of kids dont like going to school but we as parents make them - for their own good.

 

[TCBF]

Religion is an interesting thing....  Children will more often than not believe what their parents believed.
So in essence, making your children go to church is going a long way to forcing religion on them.

- Given that a religion is a faith based belief, I would say that Ecocondria and Secular Liberalism are the world's new religions, joining Communism, of course.  Do parents not force these new religions on their children by pushing their strollers to protest marches?

 

[eerickso]

- Given that a religion is a faith based belief, I would say that Ecocondria and Secular Liberalism are the world's new religions, joining Communism, of course.  Do parents not force these new religions on their children by pushing their strollers to protest marches?

Excellent point, I do recall some wars being fought over communism.

 

[Jacqueline]

- Given that a religion is a faith based belief, I would say that Ecocondria and Secular Liberalism are the world's new religions, joining Communism, of course.  Do parents not force these new religions on their children by pushing their strollers to protest marches?

Maybe the parents familiarize their children with what they (parents) know and believe with the intention of communicating this concept: " this is what I believe son/daughter", until they can decide for themselves.

 

[muskrat89]

To each his own, just don't try to make 'your own' become 'my own'. 

Kinda like criticisizing how someone else's military does things?  ???

 

[Fishbone Jones]

To each his own, just don't try to make 'your own' become 'my own'.

So I guess it would be about time to stop slagging others for their own personal beliefs then. You have your option they have theirs. Enough is enough. You've made your same point a couple of times now. Leave it go.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Going to church helps to form a belief system and there are social aspects as well. Alot of kids dont like going to school but we as parents make them - for their own good.

Yes but a specific set of belief's. It may not seem that extreme but think of the poligimist sects in the states. Young girls whom are raised to believe that it's 'right' for them to marry a man and for him to have multiple wives. Even in some cases marrying ones sisters husband.

I think there is a difference between making a child go to school and receive an education and making a child take a specific religion.

 

[muskrat89]

I'm sure there are members on here that do things as  parents that I wouldn't approve of. There's worse things than making a kid go to church. I was made to eat turnips when I was a kid. When I moved out, I stopped eating them. I wasn't brainwashed.

If this thread is going to be about critiquing parenting skills and values then it's going to be locked.

C'mon everyone let's stick to the topic at hand.

Army.ca Staff

 

[Jarnhamar]

Wasn't there a big issue in the US Airforce with Christianity being pushed onto their officers during training?

 

[eerickso]

Yes but a specific set of belief's. It may not seem that extreme but think of the poligimist sects in the states. Young girls whom are raised to believe that it's 'right' for them to marry a man and for him to have multiple wives. Even in some cases marrying ones sisters husband.

Religious groups are judged by how much value they provide to a community. If a religious community makes fences and blocks itself off from the rest of society, they will be judged accordingly. This is why I don't mind christians praying in the military.

 

[Fyuri]

I feel compelled to offer my simple thought on religion.
I've always thought of it as something that should be a source of comfort for when you need something to fall back on, especially in tough times. No hard-fast rules, just something to help you through tough times. Just my personal opinion, not an official word or anything that should be taken too seriously.
-Fyuri

 

[Flip]

Wasn't there a big issue in the US Airforce with Christianity being pushed onto their officers during training?

I think all of their armed services have had difficulty striking an appropriate balance.
It has to do with American culture and history.

I couldn't have said it better myself.  WELL SAID.  I believe there is absolutely no place for religion in todays enlightened world.

I have 3 buddies who do missionary work -  one at a hole in the wall in downtown Edmonton.   His observation is a simple one. He has some success with getting
a small percentage of people back on their feet and out of the gutter with little
more than his religion. Substance abuse and violence are things he has to mitigate
on a daily basis.  Provincial initiatives to the same ends fail.

That's right - the religious guys succeed in saving lives. The Province of Alberta
with all of it's resources and professional staff fail.  Go figure......
AADAC bases their 12 step program on Alcoholic's anonymous.

The other two have gone to Africa and done humanitarian aid work
that no government will touch.  Again.... no value in that right?

I think we all need to have some respect for that which we do not understand.
I think it's fair to say you don't understand what you don't have.
If you have no religion fine....Don't assume I'm wrong.

Separation of church and state is one of the most misunderstood of
American values.  It does not mean "no religion in the state".
I does mean that Religious bodies and government bodies have
independent and separate processes and controls.