Religion in the Canadian Forces & in Canadian Society

[gunner56]

O.K.,MCG. You must not read newspapers,or watch tv.I.E.,no prayer in schools,no posting of the 10 Commandments in public,discussion of banning the BIBLE as hate literature.That ok for starters?

 

[McG]

no prayer in schools,

How is this a violation of your rights?  Should we make every student recite prayers in school even if they do not have religious beliefs or if their beliefs are of a different faith or denomination?  If you need your kids to say a prayer in school, do what the Jew, Muslims, Buddhists, etc must do: send your kids to a private school (or would you be okay with your kids praying to Allah because that was what their school chose?)

no posting of the 10 Commandments in public

I don't know where you've lived, but I see the commandments & versus from the bible posted in public all over the place (from NB to BC). 

discussion of banning the BIBLE as hate literature.

This could never happen.  Even if some fools did try (which I've never heard of), the Charter would protect it.

That ok for starters?

I'm not convinced.

 

[gunner56]

I'm not saying kids should have to pray in school,only that they should be allowed to without having to attend a private school.Besides,if we could only pray in soecific places,like private schools,that would be a violation of our rights.What say you to that?

 

[Infanteer]

Who says a kid can't pray in school?  Last time I checked, prayer was a pretty simple affair - all you have to do is pray, it doesn't need to be on the curriculum for kids to do it.  Do they need an allotment of special time to pray?  I'm sure if anyone asked to be excused for 5 minutes to pray, they wouldn't be refused.

If parents wish an organized religious presence in their child's schooling, private schools exist for that reason - remember, seperation of the Church and State.

 

[McG]

Sure, if the kids want to pray at lunch or at recces then let them go ahead and do that (I've even known schools to have private prayer rooms that allow this).  However, the problem with prayer in schools is that it has traditionally been an organized event where everyone stops to observe a prayer from one denomination of one faith.  That is not right.

 

[bossi]

My five-year-old son was telling me all about Hannukah and Kwanza during our Christmas vacation ...
(he learned about it in kindergarten).
Thus, I'm hopeful this is a sign for the future of better understanding, and perhaps even tolerance ...?
(I'm sick and tired of intolerance, especially when any religion preaches it ... Death to intolerance!!!)

 

[Pugnacious]

"I'm sick and tired of intolerance, especially when any religion preaches it ... Death to intolerance!!!"

Me too, and yet the catch 22 is I can think of 3 big name religions that preach intolerance, and other things that lead to such mentality. ("chosen people", "enemies of god", etc etc).

IMHO Church, and state have to be kept apart.
As the bible prverb goes a slave cannot have two masters...;D

Also I have no problems with kids,and adults praying in school IF it is their choice, and their religion to do so.

Cheers!
P.

 

[48Highlander]

    Speaking of children, here's a bit of a tangent....

    How do you feel about children of certain cultures/religions being excused from having to stand while O'Canada is played at schools in the morning?  And how does that compare to the actions of this soldier who refused to remove his headdress during a prayer?

    To me, both are a clear sign of disrespect, and nothing to do with individual rights.  But I'd like to hear some more opinions...

 

[gunner56]

How is this a violation of your rights?   Should we make every student recite prayers in school even if they do not have religious beliefs or if their beliefs are of a different faith or denomination?   If you need your kids to say a prayer in school, do what the Jew, Muslims, Buddhists, etc must do: send your kids to a private school (or would you be okay with your kids praying to Allah because that was what their school chose?)
I don't know where you've lived, but I see the commandments & versus from the bible posted in public all over the place (from NB to BC).  
This could never happen.   Even if some fools did try (which I've never heard of), the Charter would protect it.
I'm not convinced.

Did I read this right...that if I need my kids to pray in school that I MUST send them to a private school ??? I recall Hitler segregating people based on religeous, and ethnic grounds.We don't do that in my CANADA,how about yours?

 

[McG]

Did I read this right...that if I need my kids to pray in school that I MUST send them to a private school ??? I recall Hitler segregating people based on religeous, and ethnic grounds.We don't do that in my CANADA,how about yours?

Clearly, you are now only trying to start a fight as my next following post would have preclude you from reaching that conclusion and comparing me to Hitler.
If you want your kid to participate in organized prayer in school, send them to a private school.   If they want to do it on their own, they can do it wherever.

 

[48Highlander]

Sorry gunner, you're off base here.  I mean, sure, we could have forced prayers in public schools, but unless you had a prayer from a different faith every day it wouldn't exactly be fair now would it.  Religious classes could be offered without being mandatory...but the point is, schools aren't meant to teach about religion.  That's what Churches are for.  I saw a video clip today that shows even some Iraqis are finally starting to grasp that concept, so I woulda thought all Canadians would have got it a long time ago.

 

[gunner56]

I believe that you should be allowed to opt out of church parades if you wish.After all,GOD doesn't force you to believe or pray,so whence do we,or our officers and nco's get the right?(I use nco because in my day,we didn't have ncm's)However,if you opt to attend,please remember to remove your headgear.My dad taught by example that gentlemen remove hatsin church,eating establishments,and in the presence of a lady.

 

[Pugnacious]

Side note: Hitler also advocated gun control, and Breed specific bans, but that is another topic. (damn Fiberals!)

Now onto this...

Speaking of children, here's a bit of a tangent....

How do you feel about children of certain cultures/religions being excused from having to stand while O'Canada is played at schools in the morning? And how does that compare to the actions of this soldier who refused to remove his headdress during a prayer?

To me, both are a clear sign of disrespect, and nothing to do with individual rights. But I'd like to hear some more opinions...

I agree with you...IMHO this is very disrespectful, and part of the problem with Canada today.  

Everwhere I go I hear about Canada being talked about as if it is a holiday desitnation for way ward nations.  
For the record...I'm not anti multicultural..in fact I'm a huge supporter of multiculteralism, I believe it makes us stronger as a country, BUT IMHO one should respect the country they are now living in, and be willing to pitch in when asked to do so, and at the least show some national respect.

Somehow I don't think other countries would be less understanding if I took such a disrespectfull attatude of their nationalism.

Cheers!
P.

 

[gunner56]

Hey,MCG,I'm not trying to start a fight,just exercising my right to state my opinion.After all,if we agreed on everything,life would be a crashing bore,wouldn't it.BTW,I wasn't meaning that you were(or,are) like Adolf,just kinda suggesting that we don't go where he did.

 

[the 48th regulator]

but the point is, schools aren't meant to teach about religion.   That's what Churches are for

I don't agree with that one mate, what do you call the catholic school board, as well as the schools that cater to other religions (Jewish, Muslim, various Christian).   I feel these provide a service and need for families.

I agree with the fact that if you choose to have religion part of a daily event for your children, there are many institutions for you to pick from.   If you chose to send your children to a public school, then you must come to realize that these schools are diverse, and must be there for everyone.

Therefore if you want prayer and schooling, then go and find it.

tess

 

[Pugnacious]

Methinks a private school is private, and what they choose to do is up to them as long as it is legal.
One would have to be pretty dumb not to think your kid is going to have to pray in class if they enroll them in a private Catholic school.

And a public school is public, and should reflect common  "public values, and rights".

Hold on wasn't this about religion in the Military?
Sorry I'm lost.

Cheers!
P.

 

[the 48th regulator]

religion, politics and money

three very dangerous subjects..

tess

 

[48Highlander]

I don't agree with that one mate, what do you call the catholic school board, as well as the schools that cater to other religions (Jewish, Muslim, various Christian).   I feel these provide a service and need for families.

I agree with the fact that if you choose to have religion part of a daily event for your children, there are many institutions for you to pick from.   If you chose to send your children to a public school, then you must come to realize that these schools are diverse, and must be there for everyone.

Therefore if you want prayer and schooling, then go and find it.

tess

Catholic schools are a compromise.  They work because they cater only to Catholics.  That's fine.  I still think it's a bad idea to mix schooling and religion because of, for instance, the inability of many overly-religious people to reckognize evolution.  It's too easy for those teachers of "stronger beleifs" to brainwash the children.  For instance, some US organizations have attempted to change public-school curriculums in order to have them teach creationism in science class.  Similarily, what would stop a catholic teacher from taking 5 minutes out of every class to expound on the sins of homosexuals/blacks/muslims/insert-choice-minority-here?  For the most part though Canadian catholic schools are fair and balanced in the material they teach, and the canadian people are rational in their beleifs, so if these people want to send their children to catholic schools and have religion and prayer as part of their daily routine, I have no problem with it.  I was speaking about public non-denominational schools.  If anything, the existance of catholic, jewish, and other religious schools is just another reason to NOT have any sort of mandatory religious programs or policies in non-denominational schools.

 

[Glorified Ape]

Side note: Hitler also advocated gun control, and Breed specific bans, but that is another topic. (damn Fiberals!)

He also liked dogs and breathed air...... uh oh.

 

[MZCDN]

Hey, I'm just wondering if there are any Christians out there or what the general feeling is about being in the military and being a Christian?