Replacing the Subs

[Czech_pivo]

You also have Group Ocean's yard at Les Mechouins on the Gaspe peninsula coast. It already has a 200m long drydock and room to expand by building new modern shops.

In any events, submarines can easily transit the Seaway, so you shouldn't rule out the Ontario shipyards, especially if you also intend on bidding on the CDCs (why not, the Korean have demonstrated that they are quite up on what's happening in Canada in the defense sector. Why would they not want to be in a position to bid on that?).

I can just see the SK’s trying to learn Québécois on top of the need for English…..
I fully realize only a few to a large handful of SK’s may be placed at the facility, but adding Quebecois to the mix would be an unknown decision.

 

[JMK]

That would entail, however, that the government of Canada elects to build a base there first before the Korean decide to build there also, from scratch.

You also have Group Ocean's yard at Les Mechouins on the Gaspe peninsula coast. It already has a 200m long drydock and room to expand by building new modern shops.

In any events, submarines can easily transit the Seaway, so you shouldn't rule out the Ontario shipyards, especially if you also intend on bidding on the CDCs (why not, the Korean have demonstrated that they are quite up on what's happening in Canada in the defense sector. Why would they not want to be in a position to bid on that?).

I don’t think you would want to risk not having year round access to the facility. My understanding is that all ISS maintenance would be completed at the facility, not just planned dockings.

How about Bull Arm in Nfld? The Province is looking for someone to lease the site, with an eye on potential defence projects.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/bull-arm-mou-drydock-9.7122660

 

[stoker dave]

Why would they limit themselves to renovating an existing site?

I will speculate that any proposal to build a whole new shipyard, including wharves, docking facilities, etc. would trigger an environmental assessment (EA). That can easily take a decade (maybe two) with no guarantee at the end that the facility could actually be built.

And if a new shipyard successfully completes the EA, the requirements placed on the facility through the EA process could be onerous.

So better to upgrade an existing facility.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

How about Bull Arm in Nfld? The Province is looking for someone to lease the site, with an eye on potential defence projects.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/bull-arm-mou-drydock-9.7122660

Location for access to the Atlantic is great, but no real town anywhere around and the facility itself has little convenience. It would need a huge build from scratch factor. If the NL government is unwilling to sell the site to a private company, it would have to be taken over by the Federal one. Would that fly?

On that basis, I much prefer Argentia. The wharves are already there, may need updating, but they are there, room for facilities a plenty and an air strip to boot for emergency parts deliveries by Herc. Plus, there is a reasonable sized town right by.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Your thoughts on them buying the old Saint John Shipyard site and making a go of that?

With the facility in CB (Sydney) being selected as the home of the future CCG heavy icebreakers and the St John's Dockyard going through a reno, which other east coast sites could there be?

I think its relevant to actually look at the old property, Irving setup a drywall facility/other over top of the old property (alongside other businesses) and all of the actual shipbuilding infrastructure has seemingly been sold off, destroyed or left to rot. The Koreans would need to tear down/convert the drywall facility (which we paid for Irving to set up through loans) and all other operators on the property before effectively rebuilding the yard off a foundation which has been left to rot since the early 2000's. I don't see it being a worthwhile or workable plan, it would entail and ungodly amount of effort and money when you could take either an active yard or a better foundation to start from instead.

Through some Googling and what I know already, I've found that Mersey Marine has two shipyards in Nova Scotia which both undertake regular repair work, Shelburne Ship Repair and Mersey Marine Limited in Liverpool, NS. These are both former Irving facilities that regularly taken on commercial contracts for ship repair and upkeep and in the case of Shelburne, still gets regular Government and Federal contracts even for small-mid sized vessels like CCG icebreakers (CCGS Kopit Hopson 1752 & CCGS Earl Grey stick out as larger vessels), utility ships, Navy auxiliaries and MCDV's. These are proven facilities with track records, existing infrastructure (large vessel lifts, paint shops, fabrication, welding, electrical, etc) and a current workforce that can be built upon by a larger company, with a lot of funding heft to throw around. As they aren't owned by large shipbuilders like Irving, you can more easily purchase them and enlarge the facilities without as much trouble.

Both Liverpool and Shelburne have ice free year long access to the Atlantic Ocean through natural ports and are present down the coast from Halifax a reasonable distance. The Liverpool yard is a bit constrained and located directly within the town itself, while the Shelburne yard looks to be some distance from the town proper with plenty of space to expand.

Mersey Marine Fabrication And Repair

Mersey Marine Limited (formerly STENPRO) services include a comprehensive ship repair, fabrication and maintenance services including hull repairs, engine overhauls, electrical and mechanical work, as well as blasting and painting.

merseymarine.ca

Facilities – Shelburne Ship Repair

shelburneshiprepair.ca

 

[Czech_pivo]

I think its relevant to actually look at the old property, Irving setup a drywall facility/other over top of the old property (alongside other businesses) and all of the actual shipbuilding infrastructure has seemingly been sold off, destroyed or left to rot. The Koreans would need to tear down/convert the drywall facility (which we paid for Irving to set up through loans) and all other operators on the property before effectively rebuilding the yard off a foundation which has been left to rot since the early 2000's. I don't see it being a worthwhile or workable plan, it would entail and ungodly amount of effort and money when you could take either an active yard or a better foundation to start from instead.

Through some Googling and what I know already, I've found that Mersey Marine has two shipyards in Nova Scotia which both undertake regular repair work, Shelburne Ship Repair and Mersey Marine Limited in Liverpool, NS. These are both former Irving facilities that regularly taken on commercial contracts for ship repair and upkeep and in the case of Shelburne, still gets regular Government and Federal contracts even for small-mid sized vessels like CCG icebreakers (CCGS Kopit Hopson 1752 & CCGS Earl Grey stick out as larger vessels), utility ships, Navy auxiliaries and MCDV's. These are proven facilities with track records, existing infrastructure (large vessel lifts, paint shops, fabrication, welding, electrical, etc) and a current workforce that can be built upon by a larger company, with a lot of funding heft to throw around. As they aren't owned by large shipbuilders like Irving, you can more easily purchase them and enlarge the facilities without as much trouble.

Both Liverpool and Shelburne have ice free year long access to the Atlantic Ocean through natural ports and are present down the coast from Halifax a reasonable distance. The Liverpool yard is a bit constrained and located directly within the town itself, while the Shelburne yard looks to be some distance from the town proper with plenty of space to expand.

Mersey Marine Fabrication And Repair

Mersey Marine Limited (formerly STENPRO) services include a comprehensive ship repair, fabrication and maintenance services including hull repairs, engine overhauls, electrical and mechanical work, as well as blasting and painting.

merseymarine.ca

Facilities – Shelburne Ship Repair

shelburneshiprepair.ca

I thought that I read something about Hanwha looking at buying the Imperoyale faculty off Irving for possibly creating a brand new yard.
Have you heard/read anything about that?

Edit:
Hanwha Ocean (formerly DSME) is actively pursuing the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP) to replace Canada's Victoria-class fleet, proposing the construction of a maintenance and assembly facility at the former
Imperial Oil site (often referred to as the Imperoyal site) in the Woodside area of Dartmouth, Nova Scotia.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Through some Googling and what I know already, I've found that Mersey Marine has two shipyards in Nova Scotia which both undertake regular repair work, Shelburne Ship Repair and Mersey Marine Limited in Liverpool, NS. These are both former Irving facilities that regularly taken on commercial contracts for ship repair and upkeep and in the case of Shelburne, still gets regular Government and Federal contracts even for small-mid sized vessels like CCG icebreakers (CCGS Kopit Hopson 1752 & CCGS Earl Grey stick out as larger vessels), utility ships, Navy auxiliaries and MCDV's. These are proven facilities with track records, existing infrastructure (large vessel lifts, paint shops, fabrication, welding, electrical, etc) and a current workforce that can be built upon by a larger company, with a lot of funding heft to throw around. As they aren't owned by large shipbuilders like Irving, you can more easily purchase them and enlarge the facilities without as much trouble.

Both Liverpool and Shelburne have ice free year long access to the Atlantic Ocean through natural ports and are present down the coast from Halifax a reasonable distance. The Liverpool yard is a bit constrained and located directly within the town itself, while the Shelburne yard looks to be some distance from the town proper with plenty of space to expand.

Never been to Liverpool. Too shallow for Gate vessels, so I don't think it would work for submarines.

Shelburne, on the other hand, could work. Would need quite an expansion. However, it's not quite ice free. I've been there in winter with Gate Vessels when we got the whole bay freeze over with about 6 to 8 inches of ice. We played ice breaker in the morning when we got out because, as soon as they heard our engines going, all the fishermen ran down to their wooden fishing boats and fell in line behind us as we drove out (GVs could take on and break up to about two feet of new ice).

No big deal, you will say, but for submarines, you prefer not to mess with the acoustic coating and tiles if you can avoid it.

I thought that I read something about Hanwha looking at buying the Imperoyale faculty off Irving for possibly creating a brand new yard.
Have you heard/read anything about that?

Edit:
Hanwha Ocean (formerly DSME) is actively pursuing the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project (CPSP) to replace Canada's Victoria-class fleet, proposing the construction of a maintenance and assembly facility at the former
Imperial Oil site (often referred to as the Imperoyal site) in the Woodside area of Dartmouth, Nova Scotia.

That would be a nice location, but while the refinery is gone, I think the tank farm is still in use.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Never been to Liverpool. Too shallow for Gate vessels, so I don't think it would work for submarines.

Shelburne, on the other hand, could work. Would need quite an expansion. However, it's not quite ice free. I've been there in winter with Gate Vessels when we got the whole bay freeze over with about 6 to 8 inches of ice. We played ice breaker in the morning when we got out because, as soon as they heard our engines going, all the fishermen ran down to their wooden fishing boats and fell in line behind us as we drove out (GVs could take on and break up to about two feet of new ice).

No big deal, you will say, but for submarines, you prefer not to mess with the acoustic coating and tiles if you can avoid it.



That would be a nice location, but while the refinery is gone, I think the tank farm is still in use.

Can the tank farm stay and the new facility be built around it?

 

[NavyShooter]

How about we just point north and go to Nanisivik and give them a free hand to develop it however they want.

Perfect solution.

Right?

 

[Czech_pivo]

How about we just point north and go to Nanisivik and give them a free hand to develop it however they want.

Perfect solution.

Right?

Are we still in need of a sarcasm button?