Royal Canadian Air Force headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general

[Good2Golf]

...I was busy typing while Humphrey Bogart was posting, but I actually think altruism may  be a valid reason for involvement; I'd like to see some evidence that it's an honestly-held rationale.

If altruism includes R2P, I'm game for that.  :nod:

Regards
G2G

 

[PuckChaser]

So the actual justification, which the government or people here may wish to debate, is 'to what ends' -- what effect  do we hope to achieve?  Since, in the absence of any official details it's all hypothetical, what could  Canada contribute to some potential mission that could support those effects/justifications?

Commander's Intent and End State will be figured out later, Because its current year. The Why part of the 5Ws is always pesky.

 

[Brad Sallows]

In which Altair criticizes what has been done so far without a shred of understanding that he is doing so.

"What we do know.
650 soldiers going to Africa.
What we don't know [followed by a long list]"

If we "don't know" all those other things, how can we possibly know 650 soldiers must go to Africa?  Do you get it?

 

[McG]

Where polling has suggested a majority of Canadians are supportive of a new Peace Support mission, I suspect that support is based in altruism.  There has been much posted about the requirement for the government to justify this mission to the public.  If altruism is justification enough for Canadians to accept the employment of military force, then that is all the justification the politicians will be held to owe the electorate.

 

[Good2Golf]

It's not to say that missions haven't been backwards engineered from the UN's (or NATO's for that matter) "pin count" game (let's just take 650 to be an arbitrary number that was agreed upon by the UN and Canada, either the UN's constraint, or Canada's restraint in the limitations section of the Estimate), but then one has to be prepared to form the achievable mission sets feasible with such a personnel count and feed that back to the UN, i.e. "With 650 pers in this composition, you [UN] get mission capabilities X, and Y, but notably not Z" and stick to our guns.  It's not a very principled way of doing things, but we appear to be operating a wee bit outside of the mission requirements taking the fore, envelope.

:2c:

G2G

 

[Altair]

In which Altair criticizes what has been done so far without a shred of understanding that he is doing so.

"What we do know.
650 soldiers going to Africa.
What we don't know [followed by a long list]"

If we "don't know" all those other things, how can we possibly know 650 soldiers must go to Africa?  Do you get it?

We, the general public, don't know.

I'm assuming there is a plan that hasn't been released yet of which the 650 is a small tidbit.

Just because we don't know all of the other things doesn't mean nobody knows the other things.

I guess this assumption could be wrong.

 

[PuckChaser]

There's a lot of high up people that don't know, this is probably the best kept secret in the entire CAF, which is comical because it doesn't need to be.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Another tidbit:  South Sudan mission's looking for a new civvy boss:

The head of the United Nations peacekeeping operation in South Sudan, Ellen Margrethe Løj, has informed Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon that she will be stepping down at the end of November after more than two years of leading the Mission.

Ms. Løj was appointed by the Secretary-General as his Special Representative and head of the UN Mission in South Sudan (UNMISS) in July 2014 and assumed her duties in Juba in September 2014.

“Although the road ahead will be challenging, I remain hopeful that peace will prevail and that this young nation will finally live out its great promise. I look forward to the day where the girls and boys of South Sudan will never know the trauma of war again and will be able to actualize their full potential,” Ms. Løj said in a statement released today by the Mission.

According to the statement, she had planned to retire at the end of her current contract, which expired at the end of August this year, but chose to remain at the helm of the Mission in the wake of the July crisis until the situation could stabilize ...

Løj's statement attached.

 

[Jarnhamar]

We, the general public, don't know.

I'm assuming there is a plan that hasn't been released yet of which the 650 is a small tidbit.

Just because we don't know all of the other things doesn't mean nobody knows the other things.

I guess this assumption could be wrong.

I think you're letting your personal wants to get in the way of critical thinking.

The liberals threw out a number of 25'000 refugees to be brought to Canada and to hell with expert advice, they were going to bring in 25'000 refugees.  The Liberals once again threw out a number without any reason or planning.  They wanted a beefy number out in the news.

If the mission only calls for 200, we'll send 650 because the Liberals won't want to lose face and look like they made a mistake.
If the mission calls for 1600 we'll send 650 because the Liberals won't want to lose face and look like they made a mistake.

 

[jmt18325]

Or, 650 is the number that is thought to be sustainable, and was provided as a ceiling.

Sorry to interrupt the stupid liberals line.  you may return to your regularly scheduled hypothesizing.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Or, 650 is the number that is thought to be sustainable, and was provided as a ceiling.

With no thought to what the exact make up of that organization would be.  Brilliant.

Sorry to interrupt

I think you're being liberal with the credit you're giving yourself 


*grammar

 

[jmt18325]

With no thought to what the exactly make up of that organization would be.  Brilliant.

You actually have zero way of knowing that.

 

[Good2Golf]

You actually have zero way of knowing that.

You demonstrated no knowledge of having a reasonable idea as to what an appropriate composition of the 650 pers formation could be, or have to be, in order to ensure sustainability, so Jarnhammer's supposition is probably fairly accurate.  650 ACCIS Techs?  Yeah, that'll be sustainable....

G2G

 

[Altair]

You actually have zero way of knowing that.

Truthiness.

It works far better than facts.

Especially when there are no facts one way or another.

 

[YZT580]

Truthiness.

It works far better than facts.

Especially when there are no facts one way or another.

That is the first statement I have read that truly makes sense.  Did your class by any chance include a kid who really wasn't very well liked, couldn't play ball, but who had parents who supplied him with all the paraphernalia just so he would be included at recess?  Pathetically, that sounds like Dion and Trudeau.  Hi coach, pick me, I have these 650 soldiers I can send your way.  It was an election throw-out.  No one had identified any requirement for Canadian troops at that time.  Now, instead of responding to a request we are searching desperately for a hole to fit our particular peg in.

 

[Canuck_Jock]

Or, 650 is the number that is thought to be sustainable, and was provided as a ceiling.

Sorry to interrupt the stupid liberals line.  you may return to your regularly scheduled hypothesizing.

I think the answer is 650 Canadian service personnel deployed on a UN Peacekeeping mission.  The government/DND is now trying to formulate the question. 

Nothing against the Liberals, per se, just that they are pulling defence and security policy out of their arse...  :facepalm:

 

[daftandbarmy]

Now, instead of responding to a request we are searching desperately for a hole to fit our particular peg in.

In other words, a typical run ashore for a tipsy sailor?

 

[jmt18325]

You demonstrated no knowledge of having a reasonable idea as to what an appropriate composition of the 650 pers formation could be, or have to be, in order to ensure sustainability, so Jarnhammer's supposition is probably fairly accurate.  650 ACCIS Techs?  Yeah, that'll be sustainable....

G2G

Since I'm not the one making any of those decisions - that doesn't follow.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Has VAC identified that we're going to see a big increase in op tempo, including up close to some shitty places en mass possibly, and they're going to get a lot more files across their desk? I wonder if they're be better prepared. Same goes for JPSU.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Now you be dreaming that anyone plans that far in advance. Any plan that crosses a fiscal year is doomed to failure or confusion in my experience. 650 is roughly a commitment of 2,000 people for an extended period of time, doable, but will suck up a lot of resources, particularly if no other significant nation joins in.