Sailors to Wear CADPAT?

[childs56]

I have called the Coxswain and the RPO at Nelles block sir a few times. No real response from them other then they replied Pte or Cpl, and I corrected them to Gunner or Bombardier.
I even parked in the RPO's spot during non reserved hours only to be threatend that he would have the DND vehicle I drove towed and me charged. 
I was literally dragged out of the shower by the MP's.

Only to throw on my Cbt pants t shirt and flip flops to walk out and show them that I still 1/2 hr left before the reserved time came into effect. The RPO was fuming now as I was out of unifrom, parked in his 1/2 hour till reserved spot and I was correct.

I think the Navy going to Cbts as shore dress is appropriate. The more hostile our enviroment becomes the more we need to be able to draw on the availiable manpower with in a moments notice.
When the ships are tied up along side some foreign port and the scneario goes some thing to the way side and we need a fast response team, the Navy could possibly deploy a limited amount of Sailors to secure ground and or them selves. To have them outfitted in a Cbt style uniform may be telling us something of what the future may lay ahead for them.

JSS, amphibous ships........

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I think the Navy going to Cbts as shore dress is appropriate. The more hostile our enviroment becomes the more we need to be able to draw on the availiable manpower with in a moments notice.
When the ships are tied up along side some foreign port and the scneario goes some thing to the way side and we need a fast response team, the Navy could possibly deploy a limited amount of Sailors to secure ground and or them selves. To have them outfitted in a Cbt style uniform may be telling us something of what the future may lay ahead for them.

JSS, amphibous ships........

Thats why we have the Naval Landing and Boarding Party to do that, you just don't arbitrarily take a person out of the engine room, galley etc and tell them to secure ground. All Force Protection does it enables a duty watch to defend a ship, it is not to double as an infantry section. As for your last statment, don't read too much into it, we as getting JSS mainly as an AOR with limited sea lift capability, the amphib that may be coming is so we can facilitate deploying our troops and giving us a capability that will be needed more and more in the 21st century.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have called the Coxswain and the RPO at Nelles block sir a few times. No real response from them other then they replied Pte or Cpl, and I corrected them to Gunner or Bombardier.

You're talking Arty, but your 514 MOC in your profile says 'bluejob'. A bit confused?

 

[Sub_Guy]

I was reading the dress minutes today, and there is mention of the CPO1 _____ <--- Forgot name talking with CLS on CADPAT for the Navy.    Question, if he is talking to CLS, does this indicate that the navy will be in green and not blue, not that I care, as I hopefully will be wearing blue, air force blue.

 

[childs56]

Put me in charge of the sailors charging ashore, sounds fun and interesting.

The bottom line is times are changing and so is our mission and and equipment.
We have lots and lots of Navy personnalle already wearing CBT clothing ashore. So what, get it issued and wear it. The reasons for the Navy wearing Cbts by the higher ups may be for any number of reasons. But the reasons against seem to be pretty futile with out that info from the higher ups.

It is obvious that due to the ever changing mission of the CF as a whole and the focus towards a one collective force may be actually taking place. At the end of the day, and the same for the Airforce take it in stride, all this means is the military is moving into a new level of operations as a whole. The planning is for all together instead of each individual force as in the past.

I mean who new that Navy Clearance divers would be in Afganistan de arming ieds and other ordanance?
Who ever thought the Airforce would have people deployed in country. UAV's and Aircraft controllers. 

 

[Spr.Earl]

Aboard ship,all cotten unifrom re;FIRE'S ABAORD SHIP!!!!
Cotton is the best protective material we have to save one from burn's,what are your flash hood's made of?
Cadpad melts just like the old combat's and stick's to you and cause's more damage to ones body!
The Cad Pad Uniform is not made of 100% cotton,I forget the make up but it is mainly synthetic with x % of cotton in it. Even on civie st. where I work as 3rd Eng my coverall's or boiler suit is all cotton,and a heavy weave of cotton and that is a regulation by the Coast Guard and Workmans Compansation Board.

 

[George Wallace]

I was reading the dress minutes today, and there is mention of the CPO1 _____ <--- Forgot name talking with CLS on CADPAT for the Navy.    Question, if he is talking to CLS, does this indicate that the navy will be in green and not blue, not that I care, as I hopefully will be wearing blue, air force blue.

This for some reason just brought back memories of the warehouses full of old combats that the Navy had......remember those?  The Blue ones, that were chemically treated and unfit to safely issue.  Will this just turn out to be another case of that.....just rotating the stock in those warehouses......old combats out, CADPAT in.

 

[childs56]

I think the point here is that the Navy will be wearing Cbts while on shore dutys. Then they will wear their NCD/Coveralls on ship.
Their dress uniforms with or with out shorts and sandels which have been worn at sea are in my opinion not the most fire retardent uniform I have seen. The argument is null and void towards the fact that Cbts are not fully fire retardent. Not to mention that they can be made with the same pattern but different material. 
The same rules can apply for that situation, you must have long pants/long sleeves (aka coveralls with in reach) incase of emergency.

As for being called Gunner etc Was one job before now I am another job.

Again the bottom line is you will get them and you will wear them. As did the Airforce. I am willing to bet on a gentle mens bet that once they are in wide scale issue that some if not most will wear them while sea going.
The Airforce use to complain about not being in blue and although they have the choice to wear coveralls every day at work, most choose not to. They wear green cause it is convient and comfortable. With little to no maintence required besides wash and wear.
I still hear guys day to day say how they wish we were in Blue still. I ask them why, they say it identifies us. I ask the question who are we identifying with here, we are on an Airforce base with Airforce people. Then I mention we have blue shirts, blue berets and also blue tags. That all identifys us.

Cheers all.   

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Been in the navy since 94 and the only time at sea I have ever worn my CFs was hmmmmm.....never.thats the same as with shorts and sandals, alongside is a different story.

 

[bison33]

They gonna find Cadpats big enough for some of those "large" chiefs? ;D ;D

 

[Rhibwolf]

Been in the navy since 94 and the only time at sea I have ever worn my CFs was hmmmmm.....never.thats the same as with shorts and sandals, alongside is a different story.

Although becoming increasingly rare, it is not unheard of to see officers in "red sea rig" which is essentially DEU pants, white ss shirt, shoulderboards, no pins/medals, and a cummerbund.  

 

[artygirl]

hey guys... Army oppinion heading your way... no worries I totally agree with you guys!  I think it is for one; a great tradition to be recognised by your uniform in all elements.  I personally would have a **** fit if they told me I was going to wear a wedge hat or a pair of nicely ironed black slacks.  To me im proud to be wearing the greens and when other elements start wearing it it kind of loses its reputation as the combat uniform.  And I imagine losing your traditional dress is almost an insult.  well who knows just my oppinion anyway.
take care and I have to back up the Patricia when he said it was hard to hold back from some sort of a joke.  hmmmmm no I cant hahah

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Although becoming increasingly rare, it is not unheard of to see officers in "red sea rig" which is essentially DEU pants, white ss shirt, shoulderboards, no pins/medals, and a cummerbund.  

Seen it for rounds on rare occassions but as you said its becoming increasingly rare. There are always circumstances where the general norm does not apply....

 

[Good2Golf]

hey guys... Army opinion heading your way... no worries I totally agree with you guys!  I think it is for one; a great tradition to be recognised by your uniform in all elements.  I personally would have a **** fit if they told me I was going to wear a wedge hat or a pair of nicely ironed black slacks.  To me im proud to be wearing the greens and when other elements start wearing it it kind of loses its reputation as the combat uniform.  And I imagine losing your traditional dress is almost an insult.  well who knows just my opinion anyway.
take care and I have to back up the Patricia when he said it was hard to hold back from some sort of a joke.  hmmmmm no I cant hahah

+1

Good points, Master Bomber!  There is operational functionality that needs to be provided, in some cases CADPAT is it, other times it's FR NCD on board, or FR flying gear for Hel Det aircrew, etc...  Then there are things that do not substantively cost the department a significant amount more, that still support operational capability while retaining an element of tradition.

Question for folks who take the bean-counting hardline to reduce to a single "jack-of-all-trades" uniform...people have no problem thinking in the realm of 100's of millions or even billions of dollars to provide operation combat capability from a weapon system point of view.  Why is it then that some get so hard-nosed about something that supports operations through the contribution to establishing and maintaining esprit de corps.  In the big picture, any perceived or real costs of having a "family" or environmental clothing systems pales in comparison to what we spend on systems, yet the "system" seems oblivious to the value of identifying with a particular service.

I'm for one more order of dress...resurrect the green garbage bags of the 70's and 80's and force those members of the CF (staffers and those in the command chain-alike) who want to squish everybody into the same mold/uniform/etc... and make them wear the crap that only too much reminds many of us of the dark era where sadly, many practiced "leading by management" vice "managing with leadership"!  "Egaaad!  Look, there's a CF-wearing, administratively-focused pencil-neck geek...run away!"  ;D

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Sub_Guy]

If the CADPAT was of a naval pattern and blue for shore jobs that works with me, but are we going to wearing those at sea I doubt it, we will see sailors in coveralls at sea before we see sailors in cadpat on a Frigate.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Boys I have already said it, we are going to coveralls and zipper boots for sea dress.  I already wear coveralls.

 

[childs56]

Just to reply back to Artygirls response.
Well all people whom wear the COMBAT uniform in the extra plus sizes, the people in positions whom will never see Combat, the pregnant people whom have fitted Cbt uniform so as to fit in, All these wearing Cbts lack the words of what you are reffering to in the context of a Combat uniform.

For the most part the whole entire military can and may be tasked to deploy in a situation that may warrent the use of the Combat uniform. Navy and Airforce purple trades such as clerks, supply techs construction engineers and such may be deployed on a moments notice to such hot spots around the world. What a pain in the butt to out fit these people at the last minute to fill in a last minute requirement that usually results in more then one or two personalle being deployed. 
The Airforce as it is ever changing at this time may at any point send a Fighter Unit to deploy into Afganistan. Their pending results in doing such a delployment may result in them doing such things as perimeter security, maybe even crash scene secrutiy if a jet falls out of the sky for any number of reasons. The list goes on for why they may or may not need Cbt uniforms along with the proper modern day gear that goes along with being in a CBT zone .  Trying to outfit a Squadron of Airpersonalle with the proper PPE even with a years notice is next to impossible let alone at the last minute as our military usually does. COMBAT means just that. I personally would not want to wear the BLUE Airforce uniform on any deployment.

Back to the Navy side of the coin, we are changing the role of the NAVY, they are getting new ships for more support of the guys on the ground. Who actually knows what they can or will be doing in the next few years. They may have Naval personalle driving landing craft to the shore to drop troops off, they may say you have to have full CBT gear at your way side in case your boat sinks while dropping off the soldiers. Who knows but we are changing and we need to look to the future.
We need to keep our customs and traditions, but we also need to look at the future of what it may hold on an operational context.

Just on a side note to all this. The QR&O's use to contain a specific section towards the employment of NAVAL personalle in the Army gorund role. It had stated that for a max of 3 continous months if need be Naval personalle could be employed as Infantry soldiers. (not sure of the exact wording or time limits)  There was a need to publish words to that effect on QR&O's.

Hey Rossiter hows good old Manitoba treating you.

 

[Rhibwolf]

Question for folks who take the bean-counting hardline to reduce to a single "jack-of-all-trades" uniform...people have no problem thinking in the realm of 100's of millions or even billions of dollars to provide operation combat capability from a weapon system point of view.  Why is it then that some get so hard-nosed about something that supports operations through the contribution to establishing and maintaining esprit de corps.  In the big picture, any perceived or real costs of having a "family" or environmental clothing systems pales in comparison to what we spend on systems, yet the "system" seems oblivious to the value of identifying with a particular service.

I'm for one more order of dress...resurrect the green garbage bags of the 70's and 80's and force those members of the CF (staffers and those in the command chain-alike) who want to squish everybody into the same mold/uniform/etc... and make them wear the crap that only too much reminds many of us of the dark era where sadly, many practiced "leading by management" vice "managing with leadership"!  "Egaaad!  Look, there's a CF-wearing, administratively-focused pencil-neck geek...run away!"  ;D

Duey, spot on!  I for one shudder, pitch, roll and yaw at the idea of wearing that again, and am equally worrisome about the current trend of putting eveyone in CADPAT (or whatever PAT).  How long will it be until we all get the call to come to BLog and sign for our new peak caps - you know, the ones with the plastic WHITEPAT tops, BLACKPAT peaks, and the CLOTHPAT hat band to hold our generic (BRASSPAT) cap badges.  We went thru this in the 70s and 80s, and we all hated it then, even those of us who were green. 

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Just to reply back to Artygirls response.
Well all people whom wear the COMBAT uniform in the extra plus sizes, the people in positions whom will never see Combat, the pregnant people whom have fitted Cbt uniform so as to fit in, All these wearing Cbts lack the words of what you are reffering to in the context of a Combat uniform.

For the most part the whole entire military can and may be tasked to deploy in a situation that may warrent the use of the Combat uniform. Navy and Airforce purple trades such as clerks, supply techs construction engineers and such may be deployed on a moments notice to such hot spots around the world. What a pain in the butt to out fit these people at the last minute to fill in a last minute requirement that usually results in more then one or two personalle being deployed.   
The Airforce as it is ever changing at this time may at any point send a Fighter Unit to deploy into Afganistan. Their pending results in doing such a delployment may result in them doing such things as perimeter security, maybe even crash scene secrutiy if a jet falls out of the sky for any number of reasons. The list goes on for why they may or may not need Cbt uniforms along with the proper modern day gear that goes along with being in a CBT zone .  Trying to outfit a Squadron of Airpersonalle with the proper PPE even with a years notice is next to impossible let alone at the last minute as our military usually does. COMBAT means just that. I personally would not want to wear the BLUE Airforce uniform on any deployment.

Back to the Navy side of the coin, we are changing the role of the NAVY, they are getting new ships for more support of the guys on the ground. Who actually knows what they can or will be doing in the next few years. They may have Naval personalle driving landing craft to the shore to drop troops off, they may say you have to have full CBT gear at your way side in case your boat sinks while dropping off the soldiers. Who knows but we are changing and we need to look to the future.
We need to keep our customs and traditions, but we also need to look at the future of what it may hold on an operational context.

Just on a side note to all this. The QR&O's use to contain a specific section towards the employment of NAVAL personalle in the Army gorund role. It had stated that for a max of 3 continous months if need be Naval personalle could be employed as Infantry soldiers. (not sure of the exact wording or time limits)  There was a need to publish words to that effect on QR&O's.

Hey Rossiter hows good old Manitoba treating you.

And what would be the reference for that in QR & Os? I don't seem to remember that one and I've been around for nigh on 30 years.

This is kind of a funny argument about people needing to have CADPAT in case their ship sinks. the thing we have to do is keep our ship from sinking by fighting fires and plugging leaks....the CADPAT doesn't help us do that. We need to be in coveralls with nomex material to help us not get burned. We also need flash gear that keeps us from getting burned if we take rounds or enter a fire area.
CADPAT is designed for people who are in field units...Army combat gear. The disruptive pattern is there to help you pongos hide in the bush and for the first little while you wear it it's supposed to have some IR signature resistance. (our ship is one big IR signature)

The Naval Combats were designed for people on ships. God knows it took us long enough to get it. In the first round of Armyfication we had to wear the old polyester work dress (looked like a Texaco Service Station attendant) and we were told that was good for us too....we had to wear the old ankle boots at sea also. When we got DEUs we were finally able to get a nomex uniform that was comfortable to wear and relatively easy to clean....then came steel toed sea boots that were actually waterproof and warm.

The thing is we don't need disruptive pattern uniforms at sea or when we come ashore....If we're driving a landing craft ashore...there's nowhere to hide! If the craft goes down and we come ashore they'll be waiting on the beach for the next one to come and take us back to the ship...sailors don't do land that well....not what they're trained for.

The JSS ships are actually going to be employed most of the time to resupply our own ships at sea...like way out at sea. They are replacements for the AORs. We will have some capacity to carry troops where they want to go and their vehicles  but I'm willing to bet it will be employed 90% or the time as an AOR.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Just on a side note to all this. The QR&O's use to contain a specific section towards the employment of NAVAL personalle in the Army gorund role. It had stated that for a max of 3 continous months if need be Naval personalle could be employed as Infantry soldiers. (not sure of the exact wording or time limits)  There was a need to publish words to that effect on QR&O's.

I would also like to see that reference as well.

The JSS ships are actually going to be employed most of the time to resupply our own ships at sea...like way out at sea. They are replacements for the AORs. We will have some capacity to carry troops where they want to go and their vehicles  but I'm willing to bet it will be employed 90% or the time as an AOR.

IHS that argument is falling on deaf years I have been saying that for awhile, just most choose not to listen.