TASER OPINIONS?

[stryte]

Several reports have already outlined Excited Delirium as the cause of death rather then the TASER itself.

Yes I agree however there still remains those in society and the media who blame the tool and those who do not believe excited delirium is a medical condition. It is interesting how, as you noted there exists several reports/studies which show excited delirium to be the cause but not a whole lot disputing it yet we still are in this anti-Taser environment.  :brickwall: 

 

[Greymatters]

In school depending on the professor and subsequently in training depending on the instructor some wished us to put CCC but not to stand for the Canadian Criminal Code rather the Criminal Code of Canada which I thought was its proper long title but I was wrong. 

Referring to the Criminal Code (CC) as the Criminal Code of Canada (CCC) is quite common. 

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Just read this one locally.
http://www.thespec.com/News_Wire/National/article/413469   

Sometimes both barbs don't stick into the subject.  At that point, you have the applied force of a fish hook owie.  Not generally effective. 
But at least they tried to zap him.  Guess the customer was demanding the full meal deal. 

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Missed this gem somehow.

I think that a Taser should only be used in a situation where they would use a firearm, which from all the stories I have read (nonlethal and lethal) doesn't seem to be the case.

Wha?
And that is based on your broad based knowledge and experience with shoot/don't shoot threats on the street? 

Also, enforce copious amounts of paper work to be filled out in triplicate if a taser is used. I think that would prevent overzealous use of a Taser.

Double wha? 
So you think that my use of a device for the protection of the public and my safety should be somehow hampered with harassing paper work?  And you think that my oath to protect the same would be shaken by the lack of desire to complete forms?  Here's a news flash:  we do a lot of paper work now.  We don't care. 
(And super-news flash:  triplicate forms only have to be filled out once.  That's why they're triplicate forms)
Two ears, one mouth... :

 

[abo]

My thoughts:

The taser is an effective non lethal tool for bringing an assailant under control. But due to the fact that is is generally higher risk then other conflict control tools its use should be considered only after other safer approaches have been ruled out.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

  then other conflict control tools its use should be considered only after other safer approaches have been ruled out.

Like what?? Have you read anything from the law enforcement people in this thread?

But due to the fact that is is generally higher risk

Again......your thoughts are wrong.....

 

[gate_guard]

My thoughts:

The taser is an effective non lethal tool for bringing an assailant under control.

Yes, it is an effective LESS LETHAL weapon, it is not a NON LETHAL weapon.

But due to the fact that is is generally higher risk then other conflict control tools

Facts? What facts? Generally higher risk according to what statistics? Which other "conflict control tools" are you comparing them too? The study I read stated that only pepper spray was of lower risk of causing injury than a taser...

its use should be considered only after other safer approaches have been ruled out.

Umm, I always rule out any other "safer approach" before drawing any intermediate weapon as does any officer operating according to the National Use of Force Model. Not exactly groundbreaking tactics here.

Guys (z_c and Bruce) I commend you for continually trying to educate the uneducated...you've got way more patience for this than I do.

 

[medaid]

Facts? What facts? Generally higher risk according to what statistics? Which other "conflict control tools" are you comparing them too? The study I read stated that only pepper spray was of lower risk of causing injury than a taser...

I've read the same study. The only reason that OC was rated to be less injury causing then a TASER was because of the higher compliance rate after OC was used and minimal injuries resulted i.e. dead.

Also no permanent injuries...


Regardless, I'd still go with being TASED then OC'd.... I hate OC...

 

[RangerRay]

But if someone were whacked out on scooby snacks, or determined, OC has little to no effect.  To them, it would be like a little shampoo got in their eyes.

 

[medaid]

That is very true. That's why TASER is often the prefered method to stop someone because OC has been determined to be ineffective on some of the 'customers' better to be safe then worry.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I hate to say I told you so but.........

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/12/12/7727321-cp.html

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Not at all, by all means told-you-so away  ;D
I'm always hoping to see "Darwinism" emerge as a cause of death in one of these things. 

 

[Yrys]

Amnesty wants tougher controls on the use of Taser stun guns.

Industry claims that Taser stun guns are safe do not stand up to scrutiny and tougher controls over their use are needed,
says Amnesty International.

Taser guns - used by police forces around the world - deliver a 50,000 volt shock to disable suspects. A report by the
human rights group said Taser shocks caused or contributed to dozens of deaths in the US. Amnesty urged governments
to limit their deployment to life-threatening situations or suspend their use.

In its report on the use of Tasers in the US, Amnesty said between 2001 and August 2008, 334 Americans died after being
subjected to a Taser shock, with medical examiners and coroners concluding that at least 50 of the deaths were caused or
contributed to by the shocks.


More ('Open to abuse', More understanding) on link

 

[Love793]

These people should stand on the receiving end of a 40 Cal. or 9mm and then conplain of what the odd Tazer may do (if the leads don't make propper contact, etc etc). I wish they would count the number of lives that Tazer has saved, just in situations where if Tazer wasn't avail the Officer involved would have no option but deadly force. Next thing they'll be complaining that Hand Cuffs are inhumane and may cause death if the suspect has high blood pressure.

 

[Greymatters]

I point Ive seen made in other articles is not that Tasers should be removed from use, but that it is finally being acknowledged that some Tasers were not working as they were supposed to, and a proper investigation after the first reported death would have prevented other Taser-related deaths.

Of course, some specific agencies are going to complain about their use anyway, but it seems they've been handed some factual ammo in this case...

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Okay was that article put up for tongue-in-cheek amusement?  That is one of the lamest half assed Taser bashes Ive seen yet.  Although excellent choice that they included the now classic "Dont Tase Me Bro" video.
This sums it up for me:

"The problem with Tasers is that they are inherently open to abuse, as they are easy to carry and easy to use and can inflict severe pain at the push of a button, without leaving substantial marks," said the report's author Angela Wright, a researcher at Amnesty International.

So she works for them and is thus biased.  Any use of force option is "inherently open to abuse" and makes pain easy and can be done without marks.  As for a Taser "not leaving marks" that just shows that she is right the f@ck out of 'er.  No research criteria, no methodology.  Just sensational tripe. 
And the Taser was never offered as non-lethal.  It is less-than-lethal. 
I guess Bono must have gotten Tased recently.  :

 

[Greymatters]

Quote
"The problem with Tasers is that they are inherently open to abuse, as they are easy to carry and easy to use and can inflict severe pain at the push of a button, without leaving substantial marks," said the report's author Angela Wright, a researcher at Amnesty International.

In reply - Which is why they are not sold to the general public, but instead carried by authorized persons trained in their use.  Like the previous poster said, all tools are open to abuse, its a pretty lame argument, and insinuates their use is currently being abused without showing evidence...

 

[dannybou]

My apologies for joining in this thread quite late as I just joined the forum. If I may add to other posts on the taser:

It is a less than lethal use of force option;
It can be deployed in situations of active resisting;
It is not a substitute for lethal confrontations.

The model used by my department is the X-26 and it works, even as a deterrent. I have seen situations diffused simply by showing up and the bad guy seeing the bright green blast doors of the cartridge and becoming compliant by fear of the taser. I have also been advised of instances when the bad guy offering to fight, hears the radio transmission that officers are asking for a taser and that in itself calms the situation down. So the Taser is a great piece of equipment wether it is deployed or not. My 2 cents

 

[medaid]

The model used by my department is the X-26 and it works, even as a deterrent. I have seen situations diffused simply by showing up and the bad guy seeing the bright green blast doors of the cartridge and becoming compliant by fear of the taser. I have also been advised of instances when the bad guy offering to fight, hears the radio transmission that officers are asking for a taser and that in itself calms the situation down. So the Taser is a great piece of equipment wether it is deployed or not. My 2 cents

Well same could be said about Officer Presence, Other Enforcement Tools... eh? ;D

The ECW is merely another tool... it is what it is. People will fight regardless of its presence sometimes... I mean hey, members carry guns everywhere and baddies still fight.

 

[The_Falcon]

These people should stand on the receiving end of a 40 Cal. or 9mm and then conplain of what the odd Tazer may do (if the leads don't make propper contact, etc etc). I wish they would count the number of lives that Tazer has saved, just in situations where if Tazer wasn't avail the Officer involved would have no option but deadly force. Next thing they'll be complaining that Hand Cuffs are inhumane and may cause death if the suspect has high blood pressure.

Like this instance

http://www.mississauga.com/article/22451

Friends call for probe into fatal shooting

By: The Mississauga News

December 24, 2008 03:09 PM - Friends of a 25-year-old man gunned down by police last Sunday in a Port Credit apartment building are calling for a probe into the fatal shooting.

CBC News is reporting that friends of Gregg Moynagh say they want to know if police had any other option. Moynagh was known to police and was known to suffer from bi-polar disorder.

Danny Vrekalic told the CBC that police could have used a stun gun to subdue his friend.

"They couldn't use a Taser on him because there wasn't a sergeant there. So they trust new cops with guns but not Tasers. There's something wrong with that," Vrekalic told the CBC.

Moynagh was shot and killed at about 1 a.m. on Sunday following a confrontation in an apartment building on Helene St. N.

According to Ontario's Special Investigations Unit, Peel Regional Police officers arrived at the apartment building after 9-1-1 callers reported a man yelling and throwing objects from a fifth-floor balcony.

The SIU says Moynagh died of two gunshot wounds to the upper body.

SIU investigators are waiting to interview the officer who shot him. Several witnesses have already been interviewed.

SIU spokesman John Yoannou told the CBC "there was a confrontation in the hallway just outside the apartment ... it was in that area that the officers confronted the man and during that confrontation the man was shot. The SIU has recovered two knives from the scene. The part they (the knives) played in this scenario we don't know right now."

Peel Police won't comment on the case while it is under investigation by the SIU.

Not wanting to speculate here though, even if a taser was availble this still may well have ended up badly (prescence of knives make it a deadly force situation, taser or no taser).