The brown Temperate Combat Boot (AKA: Mk IV Cbt Boot) - No longer CADPAT

[MeatheadMick]

*sigh*

May as well be black... that is a very dark brown...

How do they feel? Are they still heavy and clunky?  They look to me like a brown GP with mesh siding. My feet just do not like the GP's, and the weight bugs my knees something horrible. I guess I get the priveledge of jumping through the medical system again so I can wear a Coyote Brown SWAT lol.

 

[PuckChaser]

The newer darker arid boot and the brown temperate boot are supposed to be the same so that soldiers are free to choose one over the other at any given point in time.

They most definitely botched that... the new issue Boulet Desert boots are a coyote brown colour, temperates are way darker.

 

[MikeL]

Wow,  that is pretty dark, I thought it was lighter going off Piperdown's picture.  I guess the flash really lightened it up
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/450/post-1156894.html#msg1156894

The newer darker arid boot and the brown temperate boot are supposed to be the same so that soldiers are free to choose one over the other at any given point in time.

Makes sense,  having a hot weather and temperate boots for here and operations as the temperate boots would probably be pretty hot in the summer.. even the desert ones can be pretty warm.  The temperate boots look pretty warm anyways,  same as the GP boots - never worn them,  so I could be wrong.

I'm guessing the arid boots will still be a deployment issue boot only though,  and not issued to everyone,  at least for now anyways.

 

[aesop081]

I'm guessing the arid boots will still be a deployment issue boot only though,  and not issued to everyone,  at least for now anyways.

Something I always found completely retarded. You don't have to be deployed to find yourself in a desert. A few years ago, I was going to 29 Palms, California for an exercise and the conversation went like this:

"You can't wear desert boots"
"why  not ?"
"They are for desert use only"
"I'm going to the Mojave desert...."
"It's not Afghanistan"

:

Troops who are in deployable units, or earmarked for quick reaction units should be issued what they need to deploy anywhere. I was told once that we would always have 21 days NTM so there would be time for kit issue. OP MOBILE came along at 3 hours NTM........When I brought that up, i was told "MOBILE is not a good example....." WTF ??

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Something I always found completely retarded. You don't have to be deployed to find yourself in a desert. A few years ago, I was going to 29 Palms, California for an exercise and the conversation went like this:

"You can't wear desert boots"
"why  not ?"
"They are for desert use only"
"I'm going to the Mojave desert...."
"It's not Afghanistan"

:

Troops who are in deployable units, or earmarked for quick reaction units should be issued what they need to deploy anywhere. I was told once that we would always have 21 days NTM so there would be time for kit issue. OP MOBILE came along at 3 hours NTM........When I brought that up, i was told "MOBILE is not a good example....." WTF ??

LOL I chuckle at this as I have experienced the exact same thing "I am going to the Mojave Desert I need a camelbak..." "camelbaks are for deployments only!"  Ok so I guess I'll just sit out in the desert on ex with no water then!  (Retarded)

 

[Matt_Fisher]

So far, the only commercially available 'military' boot that somewhat matches the specs (colour and full grain rather than rough-out/suede leather) of the new CF issued 'brown' boot are some models by UK manufacturer Altberg:  http://www.altberg.co.uk/Web/military.jsp

 

[PanaEng]

I guess I should be thankful that I have had no problems with any of the CF issue stuff. 

Same here. I use the MKIV all the time: BFT, on EX, did my workup for the Ironman with them (but the actual event on SWATS as they are about a pound lighter - makes a difference after 32km of running with them). Only had a problem with the first BFT 2 weeks after getting them. Since then no problems.
As for the brown, it will fade somewhat and will match many wooded/dirt backgrounds much better than the black.

 

[DirtyDog]

Going off pictures posted here,  it doesn't look like the issue brown boots are that dark(like the issue Arid/Desert boot),  maybe a little darker then Coyote,  but I don't think it's that much of a difference.  I could be wrong though as I haven't seen these new boots in person. 


Rocky has a coyote boot,  but it is a light coyote,  similar to the colour of the coyote SWATs.  Danner also has some brown boots
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/RAT-TW.jpg
http://www.shoestoboot.com/images/rocky/104.jpg

Belleville and Bates also have a brown boot.  Probably helps that the USMC has been wearing brown boots since the switch to MARPAT in 2002.

I spoke with the SWAT Canadian representative a few days ago.  Their "brown" boots aren't quite a match yet and he was very interested in getting his hands on a set of the new brown boots.  I have some in my possesion, unfortunately they belong to one of the troops.  So if anyone's interested in probably getting a free pair of boots....

 

[DirtyDog]

I honestly (naively) didn't think there were any units out there that actually enforced issued boots.  If and when I find myself confronted with this, there will be problems.  The issue boots (all of them) are crap and don't work for me, end of story.  My feet are my livelihood and I will not put them through unnecessary punishment to appease some dinosaur.  I don't know what hoops you have to jump through to get a medical chit but that sounds about as painful as telling my CoC to "shove it".  I'm fine with unlimited liability, but tell me to so as something as retarded and ridiculous as purposely maiming myself and reducing my effectiveness and we have issues.  It's not like I enjoy spending $250 yearly on "Gucci" boots and it has nothing to do with LCF.  In fact, most people where I'm from regard a set of old MKIIIs with vibram soles as more cool than some boots any clown can buy off the shelf.

 

[Ostrozac]

In fact, most people where I'm from regard a set of old MKIIIs with vibram soles as more cool than some boots any clown can buy off the shelf.

:nod:

So what is the back story on why we stopped acquiring the Mark III Combat Boot before we had designed and contracted for an adequate replacement? Was the Mark III exceedingly expensive? Did the factory burn to the ground? Was the fact that it was made out of leather lead to excessive pressure from Greenpeace and PETA?

 

[MikeL]

I would assume they stopped procuring MKIIIs when the GP boots came in?  When we found out about the GP boots originally people made it seem like they would be the greatest boots ever... and rumor of non issue boots being banned came out as the GP boots were great and could fit all orthotic insoles.

 

[Ostrozac]

Ah, that makes more sense. A replacement, that turned out to be not so great, and had to be replaced soon itself.

Sort of like the Brits with their tanks. Chieftain to Challenger 1 in 1983, Challenger 1 to Challenger 2 in 1993.

 

[slayer/raptor]

Had a presentation from DLR and Trials guys today.  Turns out the 6 different boots that the CF had been trialling for the last 6 years all failed.  The government's direction was that the boots had to be produced in Canada.  No Canadian company was able to meet our standards, so a decision now lies in Ottawa as to what will happen next.  Apparently the most favoured option is an allowance system with a left and right of arc of which boots we would be allowed to purchase.  Again still waiting approval though.

 

[MikeL]

If we do get a boot allowance,  would there still be a standard CF combat boot that people can get from stores - issue out boots currently in the system till all are gone?  What would all the new Recruits get issued?  I assume they can be issued the boots we have in the system now,  but once those are depleted what will they get?  Or would they get told what boots are approved and let them buy them before they show up on BMQ?

All hypothetical and assumptions/guesses I know,  but something to consider.

I'm all for a boot allowance,  but I'm not holding my breath on getting it,  anytime in the near future if at all.

When I brought that up, i was told "MOBILE is not a good example....." WTF ??

What are those people going to say if something similar happens again?  :

"camelbaks are for deployments only!"

I thought Camelbaks were issued to everyone now (at least pers in field units)?  I returned my worn/abused Camelbak(US camo 2L Camelbak) I got overseas and was able to get the CADPAT Camelbak bladder carrier without any issues. 

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Boot allowance issues for Basic would be mitigated by having a sort of clothing "store" on bases where you could purchase the boots if they didn't have them in civvie street?  I could see that being an issue in the reserve brigades where there are no real "bases" left.  I.e. Calgary where we run BMQs from units.  They'd have to do the trip to clothing stores where they'd have a rack with prices?  Logistik Unicorps could have their hands in on things as they can process online payments I think?

 

[MikeL]

Reg Force and Reserve units near Reg Force bases(ex Edmonton) would be easy as the Canex could carry the boots(Petawawa Canex already stocks SWATs),  but for Reserve units away from the Reg Force would need something online(perhaps Logistik Unicorp like you mentioned) unless stores in the area carried CF approved boots.

 

[PuckChaser]

For Reserve units... we LPO stuff all the time. Why can't the CQs put the order in for their new troops if they're outside of a larger urban area with kit stores? I think we're putting the cart before the horse though, we'd have to convince people in the puzzle palace that a COTS solution is best/most cost effective.

 

[MeatheadMick]

Had a presentation from DLR and Trials guys today.  Turns out the 6 different boots that the CF had been trialling for the last 6 years all failed.  The government's direction was that the boots had to be produced in Canada.  No Canadian company was able to meet our standards, so a decision now lies in Ottawa as to what will happen next.  Apparently the most favoured option is an allowance system with a left and right of arc of which boots we would be allowed to purchase.  Again still waiting approval though.

So does that mean Boulet failed too?

For Reserve units... we LPO stuff all the time. Why can't the CQs put the order in for their new troops if they're outside of a larger urban area with kit stores? I think we're putting the cart before the horse though, we'd have to convince people in the puzzle palace that a COTS solution is best/most cost effective.

True enough... since a lot of Reserve units also have Regimental Kit Shops... There shops could carry the typical PT Gear, Berets and CADPAT items as well as LPO boots.

 

[armyvern]

Something I always found completely retarded. You don't have to be deployed to find yourself in a desert. A few years ago, I was going to 29 Palms, California for an exercise and the conversation went like this:

"You can't wear desert boots"
"why  not ?"
"They are for desert use only"
"I'm going to the Mojave desert...."
"It's not Afghanistan"

:

Troops who are in deployable units, or earmarked for quick reaction units should be issued what they need to deploy anywhere. I was told once that we would always have 21 days NTM so there would be time for kit issue. OP MOBILE came along at 3 hours NTM........When I brought that up, i was told "MOBILE is not a good example....." WTF ??

Yep, the scale of entitlement note that is applicable clearly states, "for deployment on overseas operations only".

That being said, I have also emailed the SM and scale OPI for pers that we've had going on Course "X" in Place "Y" in the desert etc, providing details and "common sense says desert gear makes sense in this case" and without fail they have emailed me back same-day authorizing the issue to that individual.

WTF is up with clothing stores supervisors who do not communicate with the appropriate powers that be when common-sense dictates it occur?

 

[armyvern]

If we do get a boot allowance,  would there still be a standard CF combat boot that people can get from stores - issue out boots currently in the system till all are gone?  ...

I don't know, but the "custom" footwear won't cut it. I don't know a single new entrant who has a year to wait for his custom-made footwear to finally show up once we mold his feet for them ...  (I think the contract for them still sits in la belle province aussi --- ARS Sports in Montreal vice Boulet Boots for the stocked footwear).


Gotta love contracting. It will be interesting to see what the future holds given that all failed the trials.