TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

[Ganon91]

Some folks are very short sighted - but maintaining things isn’t sexy so….

I’d love to see a CAF recruiting video targeted to youth who could serve on subs. A kind of action packed thing or maybe a few variations of what subs do

If I was ten years younger, I would defently be interested based on just reading about the sub itself. But at 34/35, even if I still end up going the military out for some kind of income and skill building given the current job market experience, I don't think they want someone that close to the start of middle age (I think 40 is when most say you enter it) as part of the crew that's not been serving for some time.

 

[Halifax Tar]

And then Canada went cheap on the spare parts - and said we didn't want to buy the ones that the Brits offered us....so they sold them on the open market. Which then sold them back to Canada at a considerable mark-up in cost when it turned out we actually needed them.

I worked in the Vic spares project...

 

[calculus]

TKMS has a vertical launch system they developed and are willing to fit it into a submarine if we asked. We didn't ask.

As for timelines PM said 4 by 34. TKMS CEO stated first delivery 2033.

However Germany and Norway were both reported to be willing to give up one of their own subs in the production line if Canada joined the club.

I suspect the difference is that the PM is speaking with a country to country deal in mind and the CEO is speaking strictly from the bid and build program. The CEO can't speak to whether Germany would give Canada one of its submarines.

As far as other timelines, Noah had a great post on substack pointing out that TKMS is going to use their investments in Canada to accelerate their builds as they can expand multiple different aspects of sub tech/manufacturing here that they can't do in Germany. Like battery production, torp production and non magnetic steel production (which they apparently have limited ability to do in Germany).

Some of those are likely critical path steps in the project timelines (wait for more steel to be produced before they can get on with the next sub...).

The way it was explained to me by someone in the know is as follows: The one by 2033 was the first Canada-specific build, and the other three would come from the German and Norwegian production slots. That seems to make sense, given there are two Norwegian boats currently under construction, for delivery by 29 and 30, and two German boats for delivery by 2034. The second assembly facility in Wismar will apparently be capable, with the main TKMS facility in Kiel, to produce 1.5 boats a year, once production has ramped up. According to Gemini, this additional production capacity was key in the RCN's decision to go with the Type 212CD. Also interesting is Wikipedia has been updated to indicate that at least 5 will be delivered by 2036.

Type 212CD submarine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[NavyShooter]

I worked in the Vic spares project...

So it was your fault that the only spare periscope control Circuit Card was put away in High-Bay not packaged, not sealed, sitting loose for approximately 8 years collecting dust before Edmund found it and brought it to me one day?

I first had to identify it, then we had to send it to Babcock to get them to test it for us to see if was any good or not.

;-)

 

[Czech_pivo]

I worked in the Vic spares project...

The stories you must have......

 

[Halifax Tar]

So it was your fault that the only spare periscope control Circuit Card was put away in High-Bay not packaged, not sealed, sitting loose for approximately 8 years collecting dust before Edmund found it and brought it to me one day?

I first had to identify it, then we had to send it to Babcock to get them to test it for us to see if was any good or not.

;-)

Lol you got me

The stories you must have......

I have a couple, but it was 25 years ago.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Lol you got me



I have a couple, but it was 25 years ago.

Stories get better with age!

 

[NavyShooter]

Stories get better with age!

Stories get better when the statute of limitations expires....

 

[Czech_pivo]

Thoughts on if this is wishful thinking or a viable possibility -

"The government is planning to buy up to 12 submarines, and Ottawa aims to have a contract inked by the end of 2027.

Speaking to reporters in Ottawa on Monday, TKMS CEO Oliver Burkhard said the selection process was quick and that he hopes to see negotiations wrap up quickly as well, adding that doing so by the end of 2026 would be “outstanding.”

Real work 'begins now,' says TKMS CEO after being named preferred sub bidder

Prime Minister Mark Carney on Monday named German defence manufacturer TKMS as the preferred bidder to supply the Royal Canadian Navy’s next fleet of submarines, though the company’s CEO says the real work “begins now.”

www.cp24.com

 

[OldSolduer]

I worked in the Vic spares project...

I remember the fire that broke out on the first one that sailed from the UK.

 

[Underway]

Some folks are very short sighted - but maintaining things isn’t sexy so….

I’d love to see a CAF recruiting video targeted to youth who could serve on subs. A kind of action packed thing or maybe a few variations of what subs do

RCN is going to recruiting submariners right off the street soon. There will be a specific trade called Sub Warfare Specialist or Sub Operations Specialist or something like that.

 

[OldSolduer]

I understand you don’t get seasick in a submerged sub.

That true?

 

[OldSolduer]

I understand you don’t get seasick in a submerged sub.

That true?

 

[OldSolduer]

.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I remember the fire that broke out on the first one that sailed from the UK.

I was on the St John's then. Adm (Then Cdr) Norman was my skipper.

We made it from St John's the city to Faslane, Scotland in 3 days to take part is the assistance to Chicoutimi.

Was a busy but rewarding month in Scotland.

RCN is going to recruiting submariners right off the street soon. There will be a specific trade called Sub Warfare Specialist or Sub Operations Specialist or something like that.

This is a good move.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I understand you don’t get seasick in a submerged sub.

That true?

I think it depends on how deep they are. But I am talking from a position of absolutely nil personal experience.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Interesting guest post at the Canada Europe substack saying Canada should still maintain defence ties with South Korea.

Canada chose TKMS as preferred partner. It still needs South Korea and an Indo-Pacific Defence Industrial Engagement Strategy.

Guest post by Mike Petric, MD of PerceptX.

www.canadaxeurope.com

 

[calculus]

Decent analysis on why the government went with this choice:

Discover why Canada selected Germany's TKMS Type 212CD for its 12-submarine program over South Korea

Canada selects Germany's TKMS as preferred supplier for the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project to negotiate the acquisition of up to 12 Type 212CD submarines, aiming for a contract by 2027 and initial delivery in 2034 to modernize Royal Canadian Navy Arctic and oceanic defense capabilities.

www.armyrecognition.com

 

[Cloud Cover]

I’m not sure if “fitted for” means “fitted for but not with …”.

I think it likely means wiring conduit, plumbing, ballasting and space reserved. Hopefully not a 10’s of billions refit for the program if the decision to proceed occurs especially for the UxV.

Also- what’s the HDW for? Another Harry DeWolfe class? If so, I think the RCN should challenge this Trademark Registration sold to TKMS: Canadian Trademarks Details: HDW — 1864755 — Canadian Trademarks Database - Intellectual property and copyright - Canadian Intellectual Property Office - Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada

https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/6920432e75f82656c9390147/69fde095c51a9e86abe21ba7_TKMS_25_001_Factsheet_HDW_212CD_04.pdf

 

[HavokFour]

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Belgium, Norway, Portugal, Greece.

Denmark and Croatia are also possible guesses, that could be swapped with any of the above.

4/8 right.

Albania, Belgium, Greece, Latvia, Luxembourg, Romania, Türkiye, and Ukraine.

Eight countries commit to supporting the Canada-led Defence, Security and Resilience Bank

Press Release + Noah Note

www.truenorthstrategicreview.ca