TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

[MilEME09]

RCN is going to recruiting submariners right off the street soon. There will be a specific trade called Sub Warfare Specialist or Sub Operations Specialist or something like that.

As once again, I feel like I was born 20 years to early

 

[oldcpu]

I understand you don’t get seasick in a submerged sub.

That true?

I didn't

 

[OldSolduer]

As once again, I feel like I was born 20 years to early

I’m not sure if I could fathom the idea of being several hundred fathoms under the surface.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I’m not sure if I could fathom the idea of being several hundred fathoms under the surface.

I had the opportunity to go in a Victoria class sub once (was interested in doing sub service and wanted to see what it was like). After going in one, I immediately lost all interest. Tight isn’t a good descriptor for how small it is.

I have tons of respect for those who do it.

My main concern with creating a sub only trade is once people experience how small one is, I am not sure they will want to stick it out. We might end up pouring a lot of money and time into training people who after experiencing what it is actually like go hell no.

 

[Swampbuggy]

I was on the St John's then. Adm (Then Cdr) Norman was my skipper.

We made it from St John's the city to Faslane, Scotland in 3 days to take part is the assistance to Chicoutimi.

Was a busy but rewarding month in Scotland.



This is a good move.

Every time I see this, it blows my mind. Rough math would show that ship to have maintained an average transit speed of over 27kts, though a storm that damaged Irish naval vessels. If one ever wanted to point out the quality of a HALIFAX class frigate, I think this is hell of a statement to make.

 

[Underway]

Decent analysis on why the government went with this choice:

Discover why Canada selected Germany's TKMS Type 212CD for its 12-submarine program over South Korea

Canada selects Germany's TKMS as preferred supplier for the Canadian Patrol Submarine Project to negotiate the acquisition of up to 12 Type 212CD submarines, aiming for a contract by 2027 and initial delivery in 2034 to modernize Royal Canadian Navy Arctic and oceanic defense capabilities.

www.armyrecognition.com

Further evidence that the four by 34 is based on a government to government deal where Germany and Norway allow Canada to jump the queue and take their spots.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Every time I see this, it blows my mind. Rough math would show that ship to have maintained an average transit speed of over 27kts, though a storm that damaged Irish naval vessels. If one ever wanted to point out the quality of a HALIFAX class frigate, I think this is hell of a statement to make.

It was like the Atlantic did us favor! It was calm seas the whole way. Sunny and flat as a tub.

And when we were entering the Firth of Clyde and Loch Long every officer and their steward was in the MCR... I actually heard Norman mutter that we may need to burn the wardom furniture. I am sure we were running on fumes when we buttoned on tugs.

The CPFs are built very well.

 

[Kilted]

RCN is going to recruiting submariners right off the street soon. There will be a specific trade called Sub Warfare Specialist or Sub Operations Specialist or something like that.

Are they weird before they become submariners, or does that come afterwards?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Are they weird before they become submariners, or does that come afterwards?

I think anyone who would do that job is a bit touched. Hats off to them.

But I tell you, no one party's like a Submariner! Some stories I wont tell about that month in Helensburgh and Glasgow lol.

 

[NavyShooter]

I was on my PLQ when the fire happened. One of the other candidates on course was pulled and flown over to meet her husband as he was one of those medevac'd.

As for speed runs on a Frigate, I was on CHA in '00 when we did a speed run from Norfolk to Roosevelt Roads in 2 days. We followed 2x Arleigh Burke DDs down at an SOA of 28 knots. We were bouncing between 1x GT at 26 knots and 2x GT at 29 knots to keep up with them. If you do the math, it's about 1400 miles, which works out to about about 1250 NM, which, with an SOA of 28 works out to a 44 hour speed run.

We started at over 100% tanks, and finished below 30%. We were bobbing 'just a bit' as we entered the harbour.

I cannot imagine how little fuel you had left getting across the pond. I recall that I overhead the UDER discussing with the CERA in CSE Flats about cutting the DFO with some JP-5 to help eke us out a bit further, but they opted not to.

 

[YZT580]

I had the opportunity to go in a Victoria class sub once (was interested in doing sub service and wanted to see what it was like). After going in one, I immediately lost all interest. Tight isn’t a good descriptor for how small it is.

I have tons of respect for those who do it.

My main concern with creating a sub only trade is once people experience how small one is, I am not sure they will want to stick it out. We might end up pouring a lot of money and time into training people who after experiencing what it is actually like go hell no.

that was one advantage of the SK boat. It was bigger

 

[suffolkowner]

that was one advantage of the SK boat. It was bigger

KSS batch one is 83.5 m long and batch 2 is 89.3 m long vs 73m for the 212CD
how much of that difference is just the VLS? Any difference in habitability?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Considering the 212CD crewing appears to be 15-20% smaller than the KSS III-batch 2, I would say the habitability is probably quite similar.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My main concern with creating a sub only trade is once people experience how small one is, I am not sure they will want to stick it out. We might end up pouring a lot of money and time into training people who after experiencing what it is actually like go hell no.

But submariners are... different

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Yes they are.

Eaglelord17, above, mentioned how he went on a Victoria and found it too tight to even call it small. Well, the Vics are cruise ships compared to the good ol' "O"-boats, and we didn't feel crowded in them old O-boats. It is a difficult concept to translate for people who don't know it: you learn to live within yourself .. in a crowded place, and let others live there too.

There is a reason why the CSA and NASA psychologist working on long duration human space flight study the psychology of submariners.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Considering the 212CD crewing appears to be 15-20% smaller than the KSS III-batch 2, I would say the habitability is probably quite similar.

Nominal crewing is the same according to both parties, KSS-III being larger has additional bunk space set aside specifically for crew training and other purposes though.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Considering the 212CD crewing appears to be 15-20% smaller than the KSS III-batch 2, I would say the habitability is probably quite similar.

Both are made for longer range cruising so I’d like to think crew habitability is top of mind in the design.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Both are made for longer range cruising so I’d like to think crew habitability is top of mind in the design.

I noted that 212CD crew size is half the Vics. Will that translate into less running into others and do we typically hot bunk on the Vic’s ?

 

[OldSolduer]

Considering the 212CD crewing appears to be 15-20% smaller than the KSS III-batch 2, I would say the habitability is probably quite similar.

I’m over 6 feet tall. I’d be banging my head on stuff.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yes they are.

Eaglelord17, above, mentioned how he went on a Victoria and found it too tight to even call it small. Well, the Vics are cruise ships compared to the good ol' "O"-boats, and we didn't feel crowded in them old O-boats. It is a difficult concept to translate for people who don't know it: you learn to live within yourself .. in a crowded place, and let others live there too.

There is a reason why the CSA and NASA psychologist working on long duration human space flight study the psychology of submariners.

I’ve toured both O-Boats and a VIC and I found the O-Boat roomier. The amenities were better on the VIC, mind you.