U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[Brad Sallows]

I thought "dumpster fire" was a pretty good tongue-in-cheek description.

I read the linked Huff'post article that presumes to argue that the GOP is no longer a conservative party.  It doesn't make much of a case.  Again, I refer to this series of surveys which suggest that Democrats have moved a lot further left than Republicans have moved right. 

To Democrats, Republicans look more extreme because the gap has increased; but (to borrow from Scott Adams, Dilbert creator) the "movie in their heads" prevents them from seeing clearly what has happened, and causes them to cast everything a certain way.  Apparently a person can't be pro-life out of respect for life; it can only be "a religiously motivated drive to control women’s bodies".  Nor can a person want tighter voting controls (particularly in light of clear evidence of problems) to protect the integrity of the system (highly important, if any sense of output legitimacy is to be preserved); it can only be "the undermining of democracy through voting restrictions".  But if you select the simple explanations - respect for life, voting integrity - it's difficult to cast people as "radical" or "extreme".

I submit that if most Republicans / conservatives / right-wingers are only a little more right wing in their attitudes than they were in 1994, they aren't particularly non-conservative.  Rather, I'd argue that the closer their values converge to conservative values of the 1980s, 1970s, 1960s, or 1950s, the more un-radically conservative they become.

 

[FJAG]

Do you think "dumpster fire" is an appropriate way to refer to a Head of State, FJAG.

Look at the details of the Warning I gave to Bird Gunner.  It stated that an ad hominem attack wasn't appropriate.  I did not take the extra time to quote the Milnet.ca Contact Guidelines, but we can if many deem it beneficial.

On the issue of posts disappearing, Mike, and Scott as his COS have provided the moderator staff with guidance regarding helping to
Keep the site functioning and maintaining decorum.  If the DS had more time, we could perhaps provide evidentiary quality summaries of all moderation action taken, but doing so is not practical in many cases.  If some people are truly puzzled by posts of theirs, or of others that have disappeared, they are welcome to contact any of the DS through a number of site functions.  Of the number of posts that I know of that have been straight up removed for non-conformity with site Conduct Guidelines, the offending posters have not questioned the posts' removals, so they either knew they were posting contrary to the site guidelines or just didn't care enough to complain they they hadn't had the opportunity to observe reactions to their posts.

People here are capable enough of expressing themselves and their opinions and remain fully with the site guidelines.

G2G as a Milnet.ca Staff member

You know I was just going to let this go and move on BUT since you did ask me, I think that calling Trump and his administration a "dumpster fire" is being quite charitable. I might also have used "train wreck" and other colourful language. These are not personal attacks. They are phrases that describe an administration that is in chaos.

Where do we draw the line then as to what and what is not appropriate.

The definition of ad hominem is attacking the person or his character rather than the position that they maintain. It's a term which is much more relevant when one is involved in a debate (such as when Trump called Rubio "Little Marco" and when he said that JEB Bush had "to like the Mexican Illegals because of his wife" (who was a legal Mexican immigrant.) -- Now those were truly ad hominem attacks.

On the other hand when we discuss the outcomes of Trump's manner of governance and the external appearance of the administration that he leads then the use of the term that BG45 used, IMHO, falls far short of an ad hominem attack.

Look. I know it's not easy monitoring and enforcing some of the threads on this site -- especially the politically based ones. It's kinda like herding cats. I'm just saying that if you intend to use the standard that you've set here just now then you guys are going to be very busy folks because a lot has already gone by unchecked that was far worse and I expect that the critical comments from both left and right will continue.

As to post removals, I hadn't even noticed that that had been happening and have no comment on it.

:cheers:

 

[PuckChaser]

Calling the Trump administration a "dumpster fire" with no context or no further information is a post that serves no purposes other than to troll the opposing posters into an equally emotional and vitriolic reply. It degrades debate and has no useful purpose. No different than calling PMJT any number of names with similar lack of context/content. I think we're all past the point in our lives of childish name calling even when we really don't like someone.

George: If you have an issue with one of your posts disappearing, please feel free to PM one of the Directing Staff and we would be happy to discuss the issue with you. If that is not acceptable you can always PM Scott as the "King of the Mods" (sorry, just watched Game of Thrones).

 

[QV]

You know I was just going to let this go and move on BUT since you did ask me, I think that calling Trump and his administration a "dumpster fire" is being quite charitable. I might also have used "train wreck" and other colourful language.

I don't know FJAG... their economy is looking great, they just went over 19 trillion GDP, Trump has some great appointees in key positions... they are getting tougher on crime and illegal immigration... what's not to like? 
If Trump can hang on long enough to actually drain the swamp - and its deep with both (D) and (R) hacks - he might do all right.  There are too many public servants becoming millionaires on public servant salaries... something is not right. 

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Calling the Trump administration a "dumpster fire" with no context or no further information is a post that serves no purposes other than to troll the opposing posters into an equally emotional and vitriolic reply. It degrades debate and has no useful purpose. No different than calling PMJT any number of names with similar lack of context/content. I think we're all past the point in our lives of childish name calling even when we really don't like someone.

George: If you have an issue with one of your posts disappearing, please feel free to PM one of the Directing Staff and we would be happy to discuss the issue with you. If that is not acceptable you can always PM Scott as the "King of the Mods" (sorry, just watched Game of Thrones).

I stand by the comment completely and shake my head at the complete double standard seen here.

People continuously call trudeau "tru-dope", post that the left is never right, ruse terms like "lib-tards", etc etc etc and yet my referring to Trump as a dumpster fire, which is charitable, seems to get a rise.

Why is he a dumpster fire? Context? Fine. He's been in office less than a year. He's had 2 press secretaries, 2 chief of staff, nominated one who was fired for collusion with Russia,  his own kid admitted to collusion with Russia, he was mocked at the G20 and NATO meetings,  disallowed trans pers in the US military without asking his own generals, and has continuously lashed out ar people on twitter instead of acting presidential. Oh, his attempts at cancelling Obamacare have failed twice. He has continually brought disrepute to his office and likely doomed any republican president in the future.

I counter suggest to those who continually be ride the left for being butt hurt about everything take a look in the mirror. Trump is brutal in every way. Imagine if you were waiting for a surgery and your president tweeted your health coverage was cut but you could "stay tuned" than hopped on twitter after he lost and basically blamed tge system for his loss when ge offered no alternative or better solution.

Deep down,  I think those getting upset indeed know he's a dumpster fire but are too locked in their own political dynamic to admit it.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

One man's "dumpster fire" is another man's gong show:

Remember how we all laughed at the US and their government shutdown over budget bills? Our PM has almost created the exact same gongshow. The newly appointed senators are even banding together to decry the constant cabinet minister lobbying outside the Senate chambers.

Goose - meet gander.

Perspective fellas.

 

[mariomike]

I thought "dumpster fire" was a pretty good tongue-in-cheek description.

I have read it in the media,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+%22dumpster+fire%22&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&ei=tgCAWf6xOI_ijwSC8KqoDg&start=0&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=603

... what's not to like? 

His approval rating,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+approval&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&biw=1280&bih=603&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A7%2F31%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A8%2F1%2F2017&tbm=

 

[FJAG]

I don't know FJAG... their economy is looking great, they just went over 19 trillion GDP, Trump has some great appointees in key positions... they are getting tougher on crime and illegal immigration... what's not to like? 
If Trump can hang on long enough to actually drain the swamp - and its deep with both (D) and (R) hacks - he might do all right.  There are too many public servants becoming millionaires on public servant salaries... something is not right.

Their economy was doing okay before Trump got there and I don't think that there has been any initiative that has come out of the White House since the inauguration that would have led to a better economy.

I agree that there are several good appointments made by Trump (Mattis stands very high with me) but there are also some real duds (including education and HUD)

The trouble is that Trump can never drain the so-called swamp which is centered in the legislative arm of the government and over which the president has no constitutional authority. They certainly won't change themselves - they've become entirely too polarized (although there have been times in the history of that country where they have been even more divided).

He can however reduce the civil service and regulations but reduced regulations--particularly the ones he's looking at--will most probably lead back to the free-wheeling uncontrolled business climate that was the cause of our last few financial disasters. There's not much benefit in making more billionaire hedge-fund managers if hundreds of thousands of Joe Lunch Buckets are going to lose their homes and health care. (As an aside: I'm one of the greatest proponents of reducing regulations and the size of the civil service I'm just not seeing anything that this administration is doing that's pointing to an intelligent managed plan that isn't in furtherance of their own and a privileged few's self interest.)

As far as I can tell, the biggest real problem facing America (like Canada, Europe etc) is simply that most good middle class jobs are melting away due to increased automation and computerization. Most of the economic gains of the country are accruing to the already wealthy making them even wealthier because their companies' costs of production are decreasing. Regretfully, there is no easy answer for this (for either party in a country that basically prides itself on non-interventionism in private industry) and as a result Trump and his cohorts have built up, as an alternative, a class of scapegoats: immigrants  (both legal and illegal); international trade agreements that do not favour the US; and crime (at a time when crime rates have generally been dropping over the last two decades [I know there's been a recent very small uptick, but overall crime is down])

There aren't that many millionaire public servants - ironically in most states the highest paid public servants are football and basketball coaches at colleges. I'm not sure how putting billionaires in charge will solve the issue. What I see is that many more middle class and low income civil servants will lose their jobs before the high level ones will.

Maybe it's because I was born in post-war Germany where I had to live with history and was taught from early on that one had to critically evaluate everything the government did to ensure we weren't turning back to a closed authoritarian regime that ran roughshod over individual human rights. That said (and knowing full well that the first person to mention Hitler loses the argument) I see many parallels that should cause any student of history disquiet (and not just in respect of Trump when you take a look at folks like Putin, Duterte, Kim Jong-Un, Maduro and any number of radical Islamist leaders.)

The whole thing with the adulation that many Americans have for Trump is that it always reminds me of a scene in Star Wars III - Revenge of the Sith:

Supreme Chancellor Palpatine: [to the Senate] In order to ensure our security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first Galactic Empire, for a safe and secure society which I assure you will last for ten thousand years.
[Senate fills with enormous applause]
Padmé: [to Bail Organa] So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.

op:

:cheers:

 

[mariomike]

That said (and knowing full well that the first person to mention Hitler loses the argument) I see many parallels that should cause any student of history disquiet (and not just in respect of Trump when you take a look at folks like Putin, Duterte, Kim Jong-Un, Maduro and any number of radical Islamist leaders.)

Sure, call Trump a Nazi. Just make sure you know what you’re talking about.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/12/14/sure-call-trump-a-nazi-just-make-sure-you-know-what-youre-talking-about/?utm_term=.6afbc54b87a5
The inventor of "Godwin's Law" about Hitler comparisons on the Internet says they're not always inappropriate.

The definition of ad hominem is attacking the person or his character rather than the position that they maintain. It's a term which is much more relevant when one is involved in a debate (such as when Trump called Rubio "Little Marco" and when he said that JEB Bush had "to like the Mexican Illegals because of his wife" (who was a legal Mexican immigrant.) -- Now those were truly ad hominem attacks.

Ad hominem is hurtful and destructive.

He can dish it out,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+%22ad+hominem%22&oq=trump+%22ad+hominem%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l3j0i30k1.11646.14502.0.14935.2.2.0.0.0.0.165.323.0j2.2.0.foo%2Cersl%3D1%2Cfett%3D1%2Cewh%3D0%2Cnso-enksa%3D0%2Cnso-enfk%3D1%2Cnso-usnt%3D1%2Cnso-qnt-npqp%3D0-1%2Cnso-qnt-npdq%3D0-45%2Cnso-qnt-npt%3D0-09%2Cnso-qnt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mnp%3D0-045%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mxp%3D0-1125%2Cnso-unt-npqp%3D0-15%2Cnso-unt-npdq%3D0-25%2Cnso-unt-npt%3D0-06%2Cnso-unt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mnp%3D0-0075%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mxp%3D0-0525.3..0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.319...0i22i30k1.sPrGimythIw

Reminds me of the old saying, "People who live in glass houses should not throw stones." 

 

[Good2Golf]

So if a number of folks here have spare time in their day to come up with a list of personal insults they feel don't cross the line of Mr. Bobbitt's definition of Personal Attacks defined in the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines, then present them as such in Conduct Guidelines thread, so that if not refuted by Mr. Bobbitt and in due course when they use them in subsequent posts throughout the site, they can sleep easy knowing that everyone will focus on the description of individual shortcomings of whom they refer, and not believe that they have simply skimmed the line of acceptable conduct against an individual.

As a refresher, here is what Mr. Bobbitt established in the Conduct Guidelines regarding personal attacks:

Please note that we do not wish to censor posts. In fact, it's just the opposite. As long as we keep things civil, there should be no need to close topics or delete posts. We don't want to limit subject matter either. We have the benefit of being outside the official umbrella, and can therefore discuss a wider array of topics, if we take certain precautions. It's not content so much as delivery that is usually the problem.

Definitions

• Personal Attack: Making an abusive remark on or relating to somebody's person instead of providing evidence when examining another person's claims or comments.

...

Personal Attacks
Army.ca has a zero tolerance policy for personal attacks, whether against another Army.ca member or a public figure. Posts that contain a personal attack should be summarily deleted, and the user should normally receive a warning. Personal attacks detract from the professionalism of the site and can sometimes cause serious problems for Army.ca as a whole.  See definition above.

...

As many will have noted, there was a staff reset recently by Mr. Bobbitt with the intent of improving the atmosphere and tone of the site.  While there has been notable improvement, it is fair to note that there remains further work towards consistency in the improvement of that atmosphere and tone.  If many want to revert historically and even more recently to what is perceived to be, or exists, as inequality to the application of then they are certainly welcome to post, indicating specific occurrences of where the site Conduct Guidelines have been breached, and it will be addressed by Mr. Bobbitt or the staff.  If the issue is not addressed by one of the staff members to an individual site member's satisfaction, or any site member feels that any of Mr. Bobbitt's staff are not using appropriate judgement or perspective in the application of the Conduct Guidelines, then that site member is encouraged to make their concern known to Mr. Bobbitt.

Regards
G2G

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I stand by the comment completely and shake my head at the complete double standard seen here.

People continuously call trudeau "tru-dope", post that the left is never right, ruse terms like "lib-tards", etc etc etc and yet my referring to Trump as a dumpster fire, which is charitable, seems to get a rise.

Why is he a dumpster fire? Context? Fine. He's been in office less than a year. He's had 2 press secretaries, 2 chief of staff, nominated one who was fired for collusion with Russia,  his own kid admitted to collusion with Russia, he was mocked at the G20 and NATO meetings,  disallowed trans pers in the US military without asking his own generals, and has continuously lashed out ar people on twitter instead of acting presidential. Oh, his attempts at cancelling Obamacare have failed twice. He has continually brought disrepute to his office and likely doomed any republican president in the future.

I counter suggest to those who continually be ride the left for being butt hurt about everything take a look in the mirror. Trump is brutal in every way. Imagine if you were waiting for a surgery and your president tweeted your health coverage was cut but you could "stay tuned" than hopped on twitter after he lost and basically blamed tge system for his loss when ge offered no alternative or better solution.

Deep down,  I think those getting upset indeed know he's a dumpster fire but are too locked in their own political dynamic to admit it.

There has been no proof of collusion. Meeting a non governmental native of Russia for private conversation is not collusion. The dems have lost all control of their contrived attempt at smearing the Trump administration. If you want to speak collusion with the Russians, what about the absolute proof the DNC sent senior insiders to the Ukraine to gain information on Trump in order effect change in the 2017 election. Or Bill Clinton's 1/2 million dollar speech to some Russians and Hillary's sale of something like 20% of the US uranium to Russia. So yeah, let's talk collusion with the eastern bloc. If the Dems had any evidence or proof, they'd have used it by now and moved on to impeachment proceedings and trying to nullify the election. The rest of your points can be addressed in similar fashion, as they are just overused, quoted statements from the anti-Trump playbook, about two pages over from "He will not divide us", "Leave us alone", "You're a racist" ANTIFA chants.

 

[Scott]

This:

So if a number of folks here have spare time in their day to come up with a list of personal insults they feel don't cross the line of Mr. Bobbitt's definition of Personal Attacks defined in the Army.ca Conduct Guidelines, then present them as such in Conduct Guidelines thread, so that if not refuted by Mr. Bobbitt and in due course when they use them in subsequent posts throughout the site, they can sleep easy knowing that everyone will focus on the description of individual shortcomings of whom they refer, and not believe that they have simply skimmed the line of acceptable conduct against an individual.

[snip]

As many will have noted, there was a staff reset recently by Mr. Bobbitt with the intent of improving the atmosphere and tone of the site.  While there has been notable improvement, it is fair to note that there remains further work towards consistency in the improvement of that atmosphere and tone.  If many want to revert historically and even more recently to what is perceived to be, or exists, as inequality to the application of then they are certainly welcome to post, indicating specific occurrences of where the site Conduct Guidelines have been breached, and it will be addressed by Mr. Bobbitt or the staff.  If the issue is not addressed by one of the staff members to an individual site member's satisfaction, or any site member feels that any of Mr. Bobbitt's staff are not using appropriate judgement or perspective in the application of the Conduct Guidelines, then that site member is encouraged to make their concern known to Mr. Bobbitt.

Regards
G2G

Milnet.ca Staff

I think we've been quite open at asking for participation and for assistance from our membership. If someone feels we have let that lapse, then consider Duey's post as further encouragement to give us your thoughts.

We cannot always provide explanations as to why posts are modified/deleted.

In fact, there have been more than a few times recently where posts were edited/deleted when perhaps the user should have just received a warning for it.

Edited to add: we see no difference in calling a user here an arsehole, and calling your favorite politician the same. Just to be super clear on that point.

Finally, I encourage anyone taking issue with moderation to PM the mod involved, and cc me; or just PM me with links to the issue. Rather than clutter a thread, we will have a discussion in private. We have already proven a willingness to work to correct any mistakes we have made.

Cheers

Scott

 

[PuckChaser]

One man's "dumpster fire" is another man's gong show:

Goose - meet gander.

Perspective fellas.

I'm not sure if you're trolling or really can't see the difference between those 2 posts... especially since you're cherry picking a post that I believe was made before I was DS and before we made a conscious decision to change the tone in the politics threads specifically (I can't see if you quoted the DTG on my phone unfortunately).

 

[tomahawk6]

here is the scandal the media doesnt want to cover. Its the DNC IT scandal that is pretty damning. The main IT guy for Debbie Wasserman Schultz was arrested trying to leave the country. His wife was already back in Pakistan. These guys did the IT work for up to 80 democrat congressmen. They had acess to everything and they set up a server where they stashed intel that they may have sold to third parties.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2017/07/26/this-exploding-dnc-story-is-crazier-than-fiction-maybe-rep-wasserman-schultz-can-explain/#99e770244144

In a plot Tom Clancy might have dreamed up, an IT staffer who’d worked for Democrats in Congress was arrested by federal officials and charged with bank fraud. Fox News has reported that officers and agents from the U.S. Capitol Police, the FBI and Customs and Border Protection, were involved in the arrest of Imran Awan at Dulles International Airport not far from Washington, D.C., as he tried to fly away to Pakistan.

Awan has pleaded not guilty to bank fraud, but his strange case has all the feeling of the opening scene of a movie that might soon include political corruption and so much more.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Meeting a non governmental native of Russia for private conversation is not collusion ...

Maybe, but meeting with someone you're told has info from the Russian government may not meet the textbook definition of collusion, but it still bears questioning - unless we don't believe the email released by DTJr himself. 

... If you want to speak collusion with the Russians, what about the absolute proof the DNC sent senior insiders to the Ukraine to gain information on Trump in order effect change in the 2017 election ...

So, if one side does it, it's "nothing to see here," but if the other side does it, it's "hang the bas*ards"?  #whataboutism

here is the scandal the media doesnt want to cover. Its the DNC IT scandal that is pretty damning ...

In the spirit of #whataboutism, then ...

 

[ModlrMike]

Their economy was doing okay before Trump got there and I don't think that there has been any initiative that has come out of the White House since the inauguration that would have led to a better economy.

I agree that there are several good appointments made by Trump (Mattis stands very high with me) but there are also some real duds (including education and HUD)

On both of these, I agree.

The trouble is that Trump can never drain the so-called swamp which is centered in the legislative arm of the government and over which the president has no constitutional authority. They certainly won't change themselves - they've become entirely too polarized (although there have been times in the history of that country where they have been even more divided).

He can however reduce the civil service and regulations but reduced regulations--particularly the ones he's looking at--will most probably lead back to the free-wheeling uncontrolled business climate that was the cause of our last few financial disasters. There's not much benefit in making more billionaire hedge-fund managers if hundreds of thousands of Joe Lunch Buckets are going to lose their homes and health care. (As an aside: I'm one of the greatest proponents of reducing regulations and the size of the civil service I'm just not seeing anything that this administration is doing that's pointing to an intelligent managed plan that isn't in furtherance of their own and a privileged few's self interest.)

I'm not sure that these are what he should be looking at. I think that one of the reasons that Mr Trump appealed to Joe Average American was their being fed up with government by regulation rather than legislation. Lobbyists at many federal agencies managed to get regulations put in place that made life easier for their principals, and harder for average folk. The EPA comes to mind - it is apparently possible to follow the EPA rules, and contravene them at the same time (I have no proof of that, so it may be an urban legend).

As far as I can tell, the biggest real problem facing America (like Canada, Europe etc) is simply that most good middle class jobs are melting away due to increased automation and computerization. Most of the economic gains of the country are accruing to the already wealthy making them even wealthier because their companies' costs of production are decreasing. Regretfully, there is no easy answer for this (for either party in a country that basically prides itself on non-interventionism in private industry) and as a result Trump and his cohorts have built up, as an alternative, a class of scapegoats: immigrants  (both legal and illegal); international trade agreements that do not favour the US; and crime (at a time when crime rates have generally been dropping over the last two decades [I know there's been a recent very small uptick, but overall crime is down])

Again, I think you're right. Perhaps some of the problem is that we're not producing high school or college graduates suited to work those jobs. When you look at the number of adverts for tradesmen or skilled workers, you can see why we have programmes like the TFW, and why factories are moving to where the workforce is. If we focused less on university and more on college and the trades, perhaps we wouldn't be losing so many of these technical jobs.

There aren't that many millionaire public servants - ironically in most states the highest paid public servants are football and basketball coaches at colleges. I'm not sure how putting billionaires in charge will solve the issue. What I see is that many more middle class and low income civil servants will lose their jobs before the high level ones will.

Maybe it's because I was born in post-war Germany where I had to live with history and was taught from early on that one had to critically evaluate everything the government did to ensure we weren't turning back to a closed authoritarian regime that ran roughshod over individual human rights. That said (and knowing full well that the first person to mention Hitler loses the argument) I see many parallels that should cause any student of history disquiet (and not just in respect of Trump when you take a look at folks like Putin, Duterte, Kim Jong-Un, Maduro and any number of radical Islamist leaders.)

Evaluating the government from the perspective you describe has never been a factor in American politics, and you only invoke Godwin if you example isn't factually correct. Not that I take issue with your comparison, but I wouldn't put Mr Trump in the same class as the other four you've mentioned. He may be bombastic and display some nationalist tendencies, but I don't see the US erecting labour or re-education camps any time soon.

 

[GAP]

I wouldn't put Mr Trump in the same class as the other four you've mentioned. He may be bombastic and display some nationalist tendencies, but I don't see the US erecting labour or re-education camps any time soon.

The impression I get is that Trump thinks he can come in like the new owner of a business and dictate what he wants and is basically getting a bitch-slap upside his theory.....it isn't working and it's making him look inefficient and ineffective.....

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

There has been no proof of collusion. Meeting a non governmental native of Russia for private conversation is not collusion. The dems have lost all control of their contrived attempt at smearing the Trump administration. If you want to speak collusion with the Russians, what about the absolute proof the DNC sent senior insiders to the Ukraine to gain information on Trump in order effect change in the 2017 election. Or Bill Clinton's 1/2 million dollar speech to some Russians and Hillary's sale of something like 20% of the US uranium to Russia. So yeah, let's talk collusion with the eastern bloc. If the Dems had any evidence or proof, they'd have used it by now and moved on to impeachment proceedings and trying to nullify the election. The rest of your points can be addressed in similar fashion, as they are just overused, quoted statements from the anti-Trump playbook, about two pages over from "He will not divide us", "Leave us alone", "You're a racist" ANTIFA chants.

You're quite correct- the proof of collusion is the same as the proof for the Clinton foundation claims. Nothing that can be pinned, but it stinks nonetheless.

The rest of my points has nothing to do with an antifa or talking points but a list of things that have made Trump seem amateur. If you disagree than fine, but his popularity polls indicate you're in the minority.

I couldn't care less about antifa or any of that and care about the Republican party only in that they, for a plethora of reasons, affect how the conservative party in Canada is viewed by undecides. Trump will have more of an impact on a second majority for Trudeau than Scheer will. When people here see Trump and compare him to the current boss they'll lean to trudeau.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

As far as I can tell, the biggest real problem facing America (like Canada, Europe etc) is simply that most good middle class jobs are melting away due to increased automation and computerization. Most of the economic gains of the country are accruing to the already wealthy making them even wealthier because their companies' costs of production are decreasing. Regretfully, there is no easy answer for this (for either party in a country that basically prides itself on non-interventionism in private industry) and as a result Trump and his cohorts have built up, as an alternative, a class of scapegoats: immigrants  (both legal and illegal); international trade agreements that do not favour the US; and crime (at a time when crime rates have generally been dropping over the last two decades [I know there's been a recent very small uptick, but overall crime is down])

I agree with your assessment. The continual automation removed many factory and labour jobs that had been the backbone of the economy for years. Some jobs went overseas for sure but that wasn't the root of the problem.

Many trade jobs exist and remain unfilled due to a preference for university education and office jobs vice labour. I remember every summer seeing Jamaicans brought to pick apples in meaford since they couldn't find Canadians to do the jobs.

 

[a_majoor]

The pseudo left has realized one thing after looking at the election of Donald Trump, the Brexit and the multitude of nationalist movements springing up across Europe: the "working class" is not at all interested in the issues the pseudo left is pushing, and if workers get to choose, they will choose a Donald Trump over a silk stocking socialist like Stephen Lewis any day.

Controlling the dialogue and limiting political choice is the most effective way they can see to keep the herd inside the boundaries.