U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[Fishbone Jones]

There is, actual and alleged, voter fraud to be considered. Many of the polling areas that went to Clinton have been implicated to the point that there is speculation on whether she actually gained the popular vote or not. Until it can be proven, or not, the 'popular' vote posit is suspect at best and needs to be left out of serious dissection of the election, until settled.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I agree the popular vote doesn't matter re. The US election. Where it does matter is in the assertion made that Trumps election is a foreshadowing of the end of the left. In this regard the popular vote matters as more people voted against him than for him. My counter argument was that the vote totals indicate that Thuc's basic thesis isn't defensible in light of evidence.

Clinton's loss is due to her inability to reach workers and her decision to spend time with celebrities vice visiting swing states.

There is enough, actual and alleged, voter fraud to be considered. Many of the polling areas that went to Clinton have been implicated to the point that there is speculation on whether she actually gained the popular vote or not. Until it can be proven, or not, the 'popular' vote posit is suspect at best and needs to be left out of serious dissection of the election, until settled.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

There is enough, actual and alleged, voter fraud to be considered. Many of the polling areas that went to Clinton have been implicated to the point that there is speculation on whether she actually gained the popular vote or not. Until it can be proven, or not, the 'popular' vote posit is suspect at best and needs to be left out of serious dissection of the election, until settled.

There is little to no evidence of voter fraud let alone widespread voter fraud. where is the speculation on the vote outside of Trump's words, which are biased at best.

 

[mariomike]

. where is the speculation on the vote outside of Trump's words, which are biased at best.

Did Barack Obama go on for months after the elections about  John McCain, or Mitt Romney?

Did GW Bush go on for months after the elections about  Al Gore, or John Kerry?

Did Bill Clinton go on for months after the elections about  Bush Sr., or Bob Dole?

I can hardly imagine Ronald Reagan whining about  Jimmy Carter or Walter Mondale.

etc... etc...

Reminds me of when he used to go on about birtherism.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+birther&oq=trump+birther&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1j0i20k1j0i67k1j0.2659.3249.0.4594.3.3.0.0.0.0.136.391.0j3.3.0.foo%2Cersl%3D1%2Cfett%3D1%2Cewh%3D0%2Cnso-enksa%3D0%2Cnso-enfk%3D1%2Cnso-usnt%3D1%2Cnso-qnt-npqp%3D0-1%2Cnso-qnt-npdq%3D0-45%2Cnso-qnt-npt%3D0-09%2Cnso-qnt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mnp%3D0-045%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mxp%3D0-1125%2Cnso-unt-npqp%3D0-15%2Cnso-unt-npdq%3D0-25%2Cnso-unt-npt%3D0-06%2Cnso-unt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mnp%3D0-0075%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mxp%3D0-0525.3..0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.3.385.ImlKXjrX0og

Too bad we are having this discussion in Canadian Politics, rather than Radio Chatter,
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/125056.1000.html

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Did Barack Obama go on for months after the elections about  John McCain, or Mitt Romney?

Did GW Bush go on for months after the elections about  Al Gore, or John Kerry?

Did Bill Clinton go on for months after the elections about  Bush Sr., or Bob Dole?

I can hardly imagine Ronald Reagan whining about  Jimmy Carter or Walter Mondale.

etc... etc...

Reminds me of when he used to go on about birtherism.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=trump+birther&oq=trump+birther&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1j0i20k1j0i67k1j0.2659.3249.0.4594.3.3.0.0.0.0.136.391.0j3.3.0.foo%2Cersl%3D1%2Cfett%3D1%2Cewh%3D0%2Cnso-enksa%3D0%2Cnso-enfk%3D1%2Cnso-usnt%3D1%2Cnso-qnt-npqp%3D0-1%2Cnso-qnt-npdq%3D0-45%2Cnso-qnt-npt%3D0-09%2Cnso-qnt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mnp%3D0-045%2Ccspa-dspm-nm-mxp%3D0-1125%2Cnso-unt-npqp%3D0-15%2Cnso-unt-npdq%3D0-25%2Cnso-unt-npt%3D0-06%2Cnso-unt-ndc%3D300%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mnp%3D0-0075%2Ccspa-uipm-nm-mxp%3D0-0525.3..0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.3.385.ImlKXjrX0og

Too bad we are having this discussion in Canadian Politics, rather than Radio Chatter,
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/125056.1000.html

True.  Trumps gaffes, poor choices, and overall ineffectiveness as a president probably should be it's own thread.

 

[ModlrMike]

Did Barack Obama go on for months after the elections about  John McCain, or Mitt Romney?

Did GW Bush go on for months after the elections about  Al Gore, or John Kerry?

Did Bill Clinton go on for months after the elections about  Bush Sr., or Bob Dole?

I can hardly imagine Ronald Reagan whining about  Jimmy Carter or Walter Mondale.

etc... etc...

To be fair you could ask the contrary question: Did any of those defeated candidates spend as much time and energy as Clinton and company in attempting to undo the result?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

True.  Trumps gaffes, poor choices, and overall ineffectiveness as a president probably should be it's own thread.

Or you can start one for people that quarterback world politics from the comfort of their easy chairs with no more knowledge of what's going on than what they read on their particular left/ right sources. Meanwhile, we have a substitute drama teacher, with little no post highschool education to speak of, dictating to and making a mockery of Canadian taxpayers. The guy uses selfies instead of Twitter. He's created debt that my grandson will be passing to his children, Trump has taken the GDP and stock market to untold, and unbelievable heights since taking over. Trudeau has given our money away to everyone but Canadians. My income taxes are now over 50% of my income for the first time since I started to work 50 years ago. Our PM also doesn't have a shadow government led by Stephen Harper to undermine him, unlike Trump with Obama. I can hear the hue and cry against Trump the minute he appoints Special Prosecutors to go after Comey, Lynch and the Clintons after this false Russia narrative dies out. Whatever happens stateside is something we don't have much to do with. While everyone is distracted with Trump, Trudeau is wrecking Canada and that is something we can do something about.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There is little to no evidence of voter fraud let alone widespread voter fraud. where is the speculation on the vote outside of Trump's words, which are biased at best.

You best do some research before you say things. Many districts in Michigan alone were disqualified because of Democratic voter fraud. Their fraud gave Clinton her numbers.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Or you can start one for people that quarterback world politics from the comfort of their easy chairs with no more knowledge of what's going on than what they read on their particular left/ right sources. Meanwhile, we have a substitute drama teacher, with little no post highschool education to speak of, dictating to and making a mockery of Canadian taxpayers. The guy uses selfies instead of Twitter. He's created debt that my grandson will be passing to his children, Trump has taken the GDP and stock market to untold, and unbelievable heights since taking over. Trudeau has given our money away to everyone but Canadians. My income taxes are now over 50% of my income for the first time since I started to work 50 years ago. Our PM also doesn't have a shadow government led by Stephen Harper to undermine him, unlike Trump with Obama. I can hear the hue and cry against Trump the minute he appoints Special Prosecutors to go after Comey, Lynch and the Clintons after this false Russia narrative dies out. Whatever happens stateside is something we don't have much to do with. While everyone is distracted with Trump, Trudeau is wrecking Canada and that is something we can do something about.

I take it that you must have some kind of inside track, because obviously you are not:

people that quarterback world politics from the comfort of their easy chairs with no more knowledge of what's going on than what they read on their particular left/ right sources.

 

[mariomike]

"Trump has taken the GDP and stock market to untold, and unbelievable heights since taking over."

Regarding recent presidential tweets about the US stock market.

August 2, 2017

"The stock market has hit an all-time high in 30 of the last 54 months".
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/02/politics/stock-market-highs-months/

"new highs at least once in 11 of the 14 months spanning April 2014 to May 2015 under Obama. And it reached record-breaking heights at least once in 9 of the 10 months from March 2013 to December 2013."

"the Dow has reached a new high, on average, once every seven days since fully recovering from the Great Recession in March 2013."

"The Dow has hit an all-time high in 30 of the last 54 months since fully coming back from the market collapse of 2007-08. And it happened more than 100 times under Obama since 2013."

"the stock market's new high on Wednesday -- the 154th time the Dow achieved a new record since it recovered from the Great Recession and the 32nd time during his young presidency."

"March 2013, May 2013, November 2013, November 2014 and December 2016 each had more record-breaking days than occurred over the last month."

"Dow sets record, Trump no longer warning of bubble
What bubble? As the Dow tops 22k, President Trump is touting its success while "candidate" Trump dismissed similar trends."
http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/08/02/lead-kosik-dow-close-new-highs-live.cnn

 

[Lumber]

To be fair you could ask the contrary question: Did any of those defeated candidates spend as much time and energy as Clinton and company in attempting to undo the result?

To be fair, none of those people lost to Donald Trump.

 

[kkwd]

To be fair, none of those people lost to Donald Trump.

So she is angry he won, upset she lost, she thinks other people are to blame for her loss, the glass ceiling is still intact, she was the most qualified person to ever run, it was her turn as a reward for her many years of public service or just plain sour grapes.

 

[GAP]

d) All of the Above

 

[Lumber]

You best do some research before you say things. Many districts in Michigan alone were disqualified because of Democratic voter fraud. Their fraud gave Clinton her numbers.

Says the crow...

26 Jan:
Firm: No proof of Trump voter fraud claims in Michigan
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/26/firm-proof-trump-voter-fraud-claims-michigan/97088356/

30 Jan:
Report: No evidence of Michigan voter fraud
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/30/michigan-election-analysis/97255846/

28 Feb:
Michigan 2016 Election Audit: No Evidence of Voter Fraud
http://knowledgecenter.csg.org/kc/content/michigan-2016-election-audit-no-evidence-voter-fraud

In fact, the only thing I could find on vote count discrepancies (notice I didn't use the term "fraud") had to do with the recount, not the initial count, so nothing actually changed. They were disqualified from the recount, not from the original count, and therefore the original election-night numbers remained unchanged.

15 Dec:
Half of Detroit votes may be ineligible for recount
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/recount-unrecountable/95007392/

Further, from this same article, it wasn't "voter fraud" but technical error.

He blamed the discrepancies on the city’s decade-old voting machines, saying 87 optical scanners broke on Election Day. Many jammed when voters fed ballots into scanners, which can result in erroneous vote counts if ballots are inserted multiple times.

And the discrepencies were rediculously minor!

In Detroit, 158 of the 392 precincts with ballot discrepancies had just one extra ballot accounted for either in the poll book or in the ballot box, according to the Wayne County’s canvassing report.

For suburban Wayne County, 72 percent of the 218 precincts boxes with discrepancies in the number of ballots were off by one ballot.

The other ballot discrepancies in Detroit and Wayne County precincts ranged between two and five ballots, according to the report.

There, I've done my research, show me yours.

 

[Lumber]

e) none of the above.

There's just never been a winning candidate that is capable of causing such incredulity in the losing candidate,; nay, in the whole country; nay, the whole world.

 

[The Bread Guy]

They are, but the first is championing it while the second was signed despite Congress included some "clearly unconstitutional provisions".  ???

Some have noticed that ... (source)

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Says the crow...

26 Jan:
Firm: No proof of Trump voter fraud claims in Michigan
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/26/firm-proof-trump-voter-fraud-claims-michigan/97088356/

30 Jan:
Report: No evidence of Michigan voter fraud
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/30/michigan-election-analysis/97255846/

28 Feb:
Michigan 2016 Election Audit: No Evidence of Voter Fraud
http://knowledgecenter.csg.org/kc/content/michigan-2016-election-audit-no-evidence-voter-fraud

In fact, the only thing I could find on vote count discrepancies (notice I didn't use the term "fraud") had to do with the recount, not the initial count, so nothing actually changed. They were disqualified from the recount, not from the original count, and therefore the original election-night numbers remained unchanged.

15 Dec:
Half of Detroit votes may be ineligible for recount
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/05/recount-unrecountable/95007392/

Further, from this same article, it wasn't "voter fraud" but technical error.

And the discrepencies were rediculously minor!


There, I've done my research, show me yours.

:goodpost:

I'd also like to see the research on this as I also havent seen any our side of a lady who voted for Trump twice

 

[jmt18325]

To be fair you could ask the contrary question: Did any of those defeated candidates spend as much time and energy as Clinton and company in attempting to undo the result?

No one has actually tried to undo the results. 

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Or you can start one for people that quarterback world politics from the comfort of their easy chairs with no more knowledge of what's going on than what they read on their particular left/ right sources. Meanwhile, we have a substitute drama teacher, with little no post highschool education to speak of, dictating to and making a mockery of Canadian taxpayers. The guy uses selfies instead of Twitter. He's created debt that my grandson will be passing to his children, Trump has taken the GDP and stock market to untold, and unbelievable heights since taking over. Trudeau has given our money away to everyone but Canadians. My income taxes are now over 50% of my income for the first time since I started to work 50 years ago. Our PM also doesn't have a shadow government led by Stephen Harper to undermine him, unlike Trump with Obama. I can hear the hue and cry against Trump the minute he appoints Special Prosecutors to go after Comey, Lynch and the Clintons after this false Russia narrative dies out. Whatever happens stateside is something we don't have much to do with. While everyone is distracted with Trump, Trudeau is wrecking Canada and that is something we can do something about.

First, that's literally the entire point of this thread.

Second, having an opinion, as you yourself have noted, is perfectly fine. I add a caveat that it should be informed, but nonetheless, that's not a strict requirement in the world.

Third, what does it have to do with Trudeau? You gave a habit of deflecting your responses to just attacks on the left when Trump is criticized. I assume this is because you have no actual evidence outside of a blog or some similar vehicle to prove your points.

4th, you forgot to mention that our economy grew faster than any in the G20 and interest rates went up due to the bank of Canada's increased confidence in our economy. You also forgot that the military got a 70% budget hike.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I read it as a statement of agreement under duress while, at the same time, maintaining the supremacy of the executive in foreign affairs.

... while, at the same time, blaming Congress for bad relations with Russia (source).