University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]

[MJP]

I am a little confused....I'm aware that to apply for utpncm one has to have been accepted to a university and for a program that meets the CF's needs. Now not having any formal education credits since highschool,(and that was a while ago)will I not be able to apply since I do not possess any university credits?Is it possible to take some correspondence credit courses and then apply?

No you cannot apply for UTPNCM without some university credits.  Usually 2 full courses worth ( so two 6 credit hour or any combination of  3 and 6 credit hours to make 12).  Bear in mind this is the minimun required and acceptance is not guaranteed.  UTPNCM is a highly competitive programme so it is desirable to make yourself as attractive as possible.  Since you are talking about CFR as well, just so you know Cpl and above can apply to UTPNCM, whereas CFR is usually Sgts and above.  Outstanding Master-Corporals/Masterseamen can CFR but it is rarer.  The other side is usually you are asked there is no application form.  However knowing a few people that have CFRed, they have all let their chain of command know that they wish to CFR at some point.

CEOTP is also an option to go the officer route.  Do a search here and on google to get more info on it.

Is it possible to take some correspondence credit courses and then apply?
to be CFR I'm aware one has to be stellar in their performance and get a 'gold star' from their superiors
here's where I'm lost: if one cfr's, do they have to have a degree? also, am I right to assume that they would go through basic officer training?


is it possible to get a university education once in your trade
(specifically the navy, does one have time at sea to get an education?)
would i be granted leave for 4 or 3 years to get a degree?
how does that work out?

Ok Basic officer which this week is BOMQ,  Usually most CFR's don't need to, due to their course equivalencies and other experience.  Who knows what it will be in the future so no real point in worrying about it right now.

University in the military is relatively simple to do, finding the time to do your courses is the hard part.  The military will not give you a tremendous amount of time off to do your courses.  The onus is on you to utilize your time wisely and get them done for the most part on your own.  In some exceptional circumstances they will give you time off but don't count on it.  The good part is they pay for pretty much everything as long as it goes towards your degree.  To receive your funding you have to fill out an ILP (Individual Learning Plan).  On it you will have to fill out what school you will be attending, your goals and degree choice.  You also have IIRC a 5 year funding estimate to fill out based on how many courses you think you will be able to do.  I wouldn't worry about that too much though as some years I know I claimed nothing and the next was wayyyy over my "estimate" and still got my money.

Here is a link to some more info and more importantly a list of links for the CF Continuing Education Programme http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/5031/5_e.asp

Right now though the best advice anyone will tell you is to not worry about CFR/UTPNCM right now and focus on being the best soldier possible getting through your courses and gaining experience.

 

[SeaGully]

Thanks for the quick replies everyone,
A little background: one, I am a SHE not a HE. 
I am an applicant as I am going through the application process, the only step left is the medical
and that appointment has already been booked. I applid as Boatswain but after speaking to the Officer who interviewed me
I decided that I would be more useful to the CF serving as Steward. (yes he 'suggested' it but only because my resume
is heavy full of hospitality goods) I think starting out at NCM is the way to go seeing as I will excell and also because right now
my education background is virtually non-existent. In the civilian world, I worked  my way up from hostess to restaurant manager, experience with inventory and with training personel etc...
and this is why I would be not only a great Steward but eventually with experience a Great Logistics Officer
I am more than willing to put in the time and effort for independant study

I just wanted to know if this path (i know it's a long long road, with many a winding turn..) is a realistic one.

ceotp i was under the impression that one needed to already posess some kind of educational credits to apply..

thanks for the advice, I will now get my google on!

 

[Dark Chivalry]

Have you tried applying to a university?  If your goal is Log Officer, why not bypass the NCM experience in favour of CF sponsorship through ROTP?  If you haven't got any schooling since high school you can still apply as a mature student if you have a GED or HSD.  You might have to take some nonsense tests to make sure your "english skills" are  adequate, but most universities barely look at transcripts from HS unless it's a degree that requires specific HS-level courses such as certain BSc and Eng degrees.

It just seems to me like the NCM experience will drag out your education time, because your duties come first.  If you want to be a Log Officer, 4 years of dedicated study under OCdt pay with living allowance (or living on RMC campus) can get you there faster.  Just a thought.

 

[PuckChaser]

NCM experience will make a better military leader 8/10. There's always the few CFRs or UTPNCMs that didn't get the respect they wanted as a Cpl/MCpl/Sgt, and go the officer route to gain some wierd acceptance. All of the CFR officers I've met are top notch professionals, who know what its like being a no-hook private.

Also, look at the officer route later on, don't dwell now unless you're completely set in it. I thought I was going to go to RMC and be an officer, then I joined the reserves and realized that I love being out in the field, getting my hands dirty instead of being an administrator.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

ON a side note, Steward is probably not a bad choice if you have a future dream of becoming a LOG Offr.  You will gain skills there that will i say again will be used as a log type,  such as hotel/rest management, and limited food services type experience, doesnt help on the supply chain management or transport side of the house, but HR/Adm/Food Svcs is also a trade stream for the LOG O types,  best of luck with your carreer and just remember,  although stewards do make coffee in the wardroom, there is nothing stoppping that Jr Subbie from making a pot a 3 am when they realize its empty.

 

[SeaGully]

Yeah, I have given the ROTP some thought however, I am a hands on learner and the thought of sitting through 4 years of university doesn't appeal to me RIGHT NOW. (aka, I can't stand my current civy job and the only thing on my mind all of 2008 was getting into the Navy..) I'd much rather be 'getting my hands dirty' now, learning EVERY aspect of the trade (if that means i gotta do laundry for a couple of years i'm ok with that, i've had to do worse working at a hair salon..)
and working my way up than go straight into LOG O. I know it's an easier route, but my personal beleifs won't allow me to get to the top without starting from the bottom...
I was thinking Officer as a carreer progression move rather than a straight away rank.
I just didn't want to get into the trade and then ten years from now realise that I was S.O.L because
I didn't have the education I needed when I was a young slacker kid...so this is good to know that there are options for me when I'm in.

on a side note, i make a mean pot of coffee! and can't stand when the pot's empty or the filter wasn't replaced...call me crazy...

 

[SeaGully]

thanks for the edit moe!

 

[PuckChaser]

on a side note, i make a mean pot of coffee! and can't stand when the pot's empty or the filter wasn't replaced...call me crazy...

You'd fit well as a SigOp. We have a Command Post Coffee Making PO check (military test).  8)

 

[muddyrug]

I plan on joining the army around June this year once I'm done high school, and I was wondering if its possible to enter the ROTP after you have already joined as a NCM, or if you would have to wait until you finish your 3 years as a NCM before you can apply.

 

[Michael OLeary]

If you are planning to join the Regular Force as an NCM, and later switch to an officer program, you need to be looking for UTPNCM rather than ROTP for references.

Here's one thread on UTPNCM to start, others also showed up on a search for UTPNCM (limit your search to 365 days for recent threads).

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/82016.0.html

No you cannot apply for UTPNCM without some university credits.  Usually 2 full courses worth ( so two 6 credit hour or any combination of  3 and 6 credit hours to make 12).  Bear in mind this is the minimun required and acceptance is not guaranteed.  UTPNCM is a highly competitive programme so it is desirable to make yourself as attractive as possible.  Since you are talking about CFR as well, just so you know Cpl and above can apply to UTPNCM, whereas CFR is usually Sgts and above.  Outstanding Master-Corporals/Masterseamen can CFR but it is rarer.  The other side is usually you are asked there is no application form.  However knowing a few people that have CFRed, they have all let their chain of command know that they wish to CFR at some point.

CEOTP is also an option to go the officer route.  Do a search here and on google to get more info on it.

Ok Basic officer which this week is BOMQ,  Usually most CFR's don't need to, due to their course equivalencies and other experience.  Who knows what it will be in the future so no real point in worrying about it right now.

University in the military is relatively simple to do, finding the time to do your courses is the hard part.  The military will not give you a tremendous amount of time off to do your courses.  The onus is on you to utilize your time wisely and get them done for the most part on your own.  In some exceptional circumstances they will give you time off but don't count on it.  The good part is they pay for pretty much everything as long as it goes towards your degree.  To receive your funding you have to fill out an ILP (Individual Learning Plan).  On it you will have to fill out what school you will be attending, your goals and degree choice.  You also have IIRC a 5 year funding estimate to fill out based on how many courses you think you will be able to do.  I wouldn't worry about that too much though as some years I know I claimed nothing and the next was wayyyy over my "estimate" and still got my money.

Here is a link to some more info and more importantly a list of links for the CF Continuing Education Programme http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/daod/5031/5_e.asp

Right now though the best advice anyone will tell you is to not worry about CFR/UTPNCM right now and focus on being the best soldier possible getting through your courses and gaining experience.

 

[muddyrug]

alright thanks

 

[tyciol]

So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way? Could someone apply for it if they had joined and then not renewed their terms of service and switched back to civilian life then wanted to get in as an officer?

 

[George Wallace]

So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way?

Correct.

Could someone apply for it if they had joined and then not renewed their terms of service and switched back to civilian life then wanted to get in as an officer?

A rather convoluted process, but I suppose one could.  If you had done some reading on these topics, you would know that there are several different programs, that include programs/plans for NCMs to apply for and get a Degree, as well as plans that would permit them to apply for and be Commissioned.

 

[chris_log]

So ROTP is only something available to people who aren't serving the DND in any way?

No.

Reservists can CT to the regs via ROTP. It happens all the time. Now, reg force NCM's who want to become an officer and get their schooling subsidised would have to apply for the UTPNCM program. There are also reg force and reserve NCM's who become officer's without a degree via the CFR process (this applies to higher ranking NCM's who have alot of experience and time in).

 

[oldandgrey]

UTs program is not the only route you can use. check out the CEOTP as well, this program is open to NCM and Civics.  what you should do is read up CFAOs 9-13 for UTP-NCM and the canforgen on the CEOTP.

for you to apply as a UT you must be at a min rank of cpl before your file reach the board. CEOTP has no min rank at this point.

 

[mr.rhtuner]

Hey guys, I've searched and had a few questions answered but still have one left that I'd like to get help on.

Let's say a NCM Master Corporal or Sergeant want to become an officer, are the only options:

1) Release from the military and complete a university degree then re-enlist and
2) Apply and get into the RMC school and become an officer

I've just been thinking after numerous years a person puts into getting that rank, is there no way easier to apply for being an officer???


I've looked through the CF website and don't see a easier way of getting into the officer program.


Sorry if this has been posted, I couldn't find the direct answer to this

 

[Rowshambow]

There are lots (OK a few) ways to do it.

1) CFR-Commision From the Ranks, you should be min Sgt but will accept outstanding MCpl's
2) CEOTP- Continuing Education Officer Training Program, you only need to be a Cpl, and have to finish a degree (on your own time) before your IE is finished
3) UTPNCM- University Training Plan NCM, Cpl's and above, apply to go to school and then trade training in summer etc, kinda like ROTP, can go to civi or RMC
4) SCP- Special Commissioning Plan, Cpl's and up, once you have a degree (we see more people coming in with degree's now) then you can go Officer after you do the NCM time.

Anyways, if you look on the recruiting site, many of these should be posted, as that's where I got it from when I looked into it years ago. Or ask a BPSO!

 

[aesop081]

For some, NCM to Officer is hardly considered "advancement".

CFR has its own special cosiderations and is largely designed for a senior NCM to move into a related officer trade (i.e. sup tech to LOG O or AES Op to ACSO......).

 

[DisplacedMaritimer]

2 quick questions on the CFR since it came up in the post, and I've only heard bits and pieces about it before:

1. Does a CFR still require a University Degree?
2. Does a CFR start as a 2Lt? Or are they moved to a rank more fitting of their experience? Or would this be situational?

I've always found this concept to be interesting but I honestly don't know a lot about it, and it's not mentioned a lot on the boards.

 

[dapaterson]

2 quick questions on the CFR since it came up in the post, and I've only heard bits and pieces about it before:

1. Does a CFR still require a University Degree?
2. Does a CFR start as a 2Lt? Or are they moved to a rank more fitting of their experience? Or would this be situational?

I've always found this concept to be interesting but I honestly don't know a lot about it, and it's not mentioned a lot on the boards.

CFAO 11-9 - Commissioning from the Ranks - should answer most of your questions.

ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS
5.    To be eligible for nomination under the CFRP a member shall:
    a.  be a Canadian citizen;

    b.  have a minimum of 10 years service in the Canadian Forces (CF)
          Regular Force by the closing date for nomination;

    c.  be of the substantive rank of sergeant (Sgt)/petty officer second
          class (P02) or above;

    d.  have at least the minimum required years of service remaining to
          compulsory retirement age (CRA) for the proposed officer military
          occupation classification (MOC) by 31 Dec of the year in which
          the selection board is convened. This minimum number of years
          will be specified in the annual competition message;

    e.  for the appropriate officer MOC have a minimum medical category
          awarded/confirmed within the 12 months prior to the closing date
          for nomination;

    f.  achieve acceptable standing in the General Classification (GC)
          test administered by the Base Personnel Selection Officer (BPSO);

    g.  possess a Grade 12 diploma (Secondary V in Quebec) or an
          equivalency certificate based on education equivalency testing;
          and

    h.  if a MARE 44 nominee, provide proof of acceptance to a sub-MOC
          approved technology programme at an institution identified below;

          (1)  MARE 44B(MS) -- institution(s) will be specified in the
              annual competition message,

          (2)  MARE 44C(CS) -- Camosun College (Pre MORPS only), and

          (3)  MARE 44D(NC) -- Fisheries and Marine Institute of Memorial
              University of Newfoundland.

CFAO 11-6, Commissioning and Promotion Policy - Officers - Regular Force, also applies:

14.    CFRP.  A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the
CFRP, whose rank is warrant officer or below, and who has not completed the
Senior Leaders Course (SLC) will be commissioned in the rank of second
lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to the rank of lieutenant effective
the date of successful completion of the required basic officer training.
A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the CFRP, whose rank
is warrant officer or below and who has attained the SLC qualification will
be commissioned in the rank of second lieutenant with simultaneous
promotion to the rank of lieutenant prior to the commencement of the
required basic officer training.  The commissioning date will be set by
NDHQ.  Those CFRP candidates who are required to complete their MOC
training prior to attending the basic officer training will be commissioned
effective the date of successful completion of the basic officer training
but will have their seniority adjusted to the basic officer training
graduation date for the other candidates on their CFRP intake.


21.    A candidate selected for commissioning as a GSO under the CFRP, whose
substantive or acting (lacks qualification) rank is master warrant officer
or chief warrant officer, will be commissioned in the rank of second
lieutenant with simultaneous promotion to the rank of captain.  The
commissioning date will be set by NDHQ.  Effective date and seniority date
will be the date of commissioning for those CFRP officers commissioned
after 1 Jan 81.  Those CFRP candidates who are required to undertake their
MOC training prior to commissioning will be commissioned on successful
completion of the required MOC training with seniority adjusted to that of
the other candidates on their CFRP intake.

Both references should be read in their entirety to fully understand the processes that are to be followed.