Updated Army Service Dress project

[rmc_wannabe]

Clothing items are vote 1; Defence now does vote 1 projects.

I stand corrected. Thank you!

 

[dapaterson]

I stand corrected. Thank you!

Past clothing projects were done vote 5; defence accounting morphs and changes over time.

 

[Kilted]

So I found out the other day that the design of the cut-away portion of the DEU jacket worn by kilted regiments has changed, and we are now expected to get new DEU jackets to replace the current ones. This is of course, all before the new uniform comes in.

 

[dimsum]

So I found out the other day that the design of the cut-away portion of the DEU jacket worn by kilted regiments has changed, and we are now expected to get new DEU jackets to replace the current ones. This is of course, all before the new uniform comes in.

1. Why change the design knowing that there is an entire new uniform coming?
2. Who has shares in Logistik Unicorp?

 

[Gunnar]

On the plus side, CIC of kilted units are no longer authorized highland dress. Kinda makes sense, as we are the instructors cadre, but I would be sad to see the loss of bling...

 

[rmc_wannabe]

On the plus side, CIC of kilted units are no longer authorized highland dress. Kinda makes sense, as we are the instructors cadre, but I would be sad to see the loss of bling...

The CIC has its own history and traditions, which should be a source of pride for its members. The whole "big brother, little brother" attitude with Regimental affiliation shouldn't be a thing, honestly.

 

[Gunnar]

I don't think I agree with you there, at least on the cadet level. On the officer level, I would be glad of more history and traditions tho...

In a very real sense cadets are "playing army" to learn real skills and experience. Pointy end army affiliation helps round out the dream, bringing a sense of tradition to the game.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I don't think I agree with you there, at least on the cadet level. On the officer level, I would be glad of more history and traditions tho...

In a very real sense cadets are "playing army" to learn real skills and experience. Pointy end army affiliation helps round out the dream, bringing a sense of tradition to the game.

My point was mainly to CIC folks adopting the dress and traditions of their unit's Regimental Affiliation.

I have no issues with the Cadets adopting as such (I was one of them many moons ago).

 

[Gunnar]

Then you and I agree.

I never was a cadet, but I know I was never an artilleryman. I can see some wiggle-room for certain aspects of tradition as adult representatives of the (cadet) unit, internally, but CIC are not Highlanders, Arty, Infantry....we are instructors.

 

[ueo]

I don't think I agree with you there, at least on the cadet level. On the officer level, I would be glad of more history and traditions tho...

In a very real sense cadets are "playing army" to learn real skills and experience. Pointy end army affiliation helps round out the dream, bringing a sense of tradition to the game.

"...game." Hmmmmm!

 

[WestIsle]

On the plus side, CIC of kilted units are no longer authorized highland dress. Kinda makes sense, as we are the instructors cadre, but I would be sad to see the loss of bling...

Got the reference for this? Got a buddy who is now an RQMS for a unit who this might apply to

 

[quadrapiper]

I don't think I agree with you there, at least on the cadet level. On the officer level, I would be glad of more history and traditions tho...

To swerve hard, I think a better argument could be made that a CIC without an internal identity would actually serve its function more effectively. Actually, I can't see the point of CIC branch identity, beyond a sense of pride in the trade.

Transmitting parent service (culture, concepts, knowledge, etc. (which we already do a terrible job of, overall) won't be served by an increased "CIC" identity. The closer to seamless integration with the RCN, CA and its diverse sub-identities, and RCAF, the better.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

To swerve hard, I think a better argument could be made that a CIC without an internal identity would actually serve its function more effectively. Actually, I can't see the point of CIC branch identity, beyond a sense of pride in the trade.

Transmitting parent service (culture, concepts, knowledge, etc. (which we already do a terrible job of, overall) won't be served by an increased "CIC" identity. The closer to seamless integration with the RCN, CA and its diverse sub-identities, and RCAF, the better.

The Cadet program top leadership is working hard to dilute its relationship and relevance with the CAF.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

To swerve hard, I think a better argument could be made that a CIC without an internal identity would actually serve its function more effectively. Actually, I can't see the point of CIC branch identity, beyond a sense of pride in the trade.

TDOs, PSOs, PAO, etc. maintain their trade, branch, and elemental status without issue. CIC is no different. The fact that you're a separate "force" under COATS necessitates that.

Transmitting parent service (culture, concepts, knowledge, etc. (which we already do a terrible job of, overall) won't be served by an increased "CIC" identity. The closer to seamless integration with the RCN, CA and its diverse sub-identities, and RCAF, the better.

See my above comment about COATS being a distinct "force" to everyone else. If you're looking at integrating CIC as a "trade" into a larger P Res structure (the only way I see you all adopting more integration with the RCN, CA, and RCAF) would see CIC officers being held to universality of service, APRV, FORCE Tests, medical and educations standards....

 

[quadrapiper]

The Cadet program top leadership is working hard to dilute its relationship and relevance with the CAF.

I've noticed.

 

[quadrapiper]

TDOs, PSOs, PAO, etc. maintain their trade, branch, and elemental status without issue.

I think you mistook my point: beyond the (currently) needful cap badge and whatnot, maintaining or encouraging a distinct CIC identity is likely actively harmful, and would ideally be deprecrated in favour of a more chameleonic approach. The CIC issue is that elemental identity is not being maintained, while the other two are being emphasized at the expense of identification with anything "below" the CAF as a whole.

I'm talking surface and perception: regardless, render the branch an administrative entity only. No marchpasts, flags, mottoes, traditions, nothing. All of that is worthless or deleterious at the corps, squadron, and summer training level, and encourages a drifting effect at the regional and national level. Push information out to support at least basic awareness of CAF/RCN/CA/RCAF activities and so on, and encourage an interest in same. This is all cheap or free, and actually supports the "develop an interest in the CAF" goal. Having an instructor pool that sees itself having less and less in common with the primary institution it's supposed to be developing an interest in among its charges is not at all helpful.

Whatever the training, terms of service, applicability of UoS, etc., a cadet instructor pool whose self-image is as naval, regimental/"corps of", or air force members who are employed to instruct cadets, rather than as a peculiar, standalone thing that happens to wear one of the three uniforms would likely discourage the sort of thing Colin Parkinson notes.

 

[ueo]

TDOs, PSOs, PAO, etc. maintain their trade, branch, and elemental status without issue. CIC is no different. The fact that you're a separate "force" under COATS necessitates that.


See my above comment about COATS being a distinct "force" to everyone else. If you're looking at integrating CIC as a "trade" into a larger P Res structure (the only way I see you all adopting more integration with the RCN, CA, and RCAF) would see CIC officers being held to universality of service, APRV, FORCE Tests, medical and educations standards....

Good luck with that!

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Good luck with that!

Exactly

 

[dapaterson]

I want to see a TDO cadet Corps.

 

[dapaterson]

I want to see a TDO cadet Corps.

It would probably consist of all the cadets no longer permitted to be part of other cadet Corps.