Updated Army Service Dress project

[Kilted]

Was 2013 the year the pips and crowns came back? If that is true, we have officers and NCM's who have known nothing but pips and crowns, Executive Curls and Pearl Gray RCAF stripes.

Also, some units never stopped wearing Crowns and Pips on certain orders of dress. We had to learn both systems.

 

[MacNav63]

Somehow or other Dad got away with wearing his pre-unification ordnance corps mess kit, complete with pips and crowns, until he retired from the regular force in '87.

 

[Rifleman62]

In days past British Rifle Regt Officers never wore ranks on their Mess Kit as everyone knew their brother officers.
Don't know if that continues.

 

[OldSolduer]

Somehow or other Dad got away with wearing his pre-unification ordnance corps mess kit, complete with pips and crowns, until he retired from the regular force in '87.

Their is usually a clause that states that if a member had mess kit before the change they can continue to wear it.

 

[daftandbarmy]

In days past British Rifle Regt Officers never wore ranks on their Mess Kit as everyone knew their brother officers.
Don't know if that continues.

The Black Mafia?

I always assumed their shoulder rank badges were torn off by the boots of their bosses who were using them to career climb higher

 

[boredtoon]

Your right they likely aren’t going anywhere anytime soon, but that doesn’t excuse the stupidity involved. At the bare minimum they should have Canadianized the pips and used some honour in the Canadian system as the basis (or maple leafs or something).

They did this, with the Vimy star a few years back, replaced the 3 crowns at the centre of the pip with a maple leaf. called it the Vimy Star, as opposed to the Bath Star. Then quietly reversed it. I still have a bunch in a box at home.

 

[Maxman1]

I'm basically on board with these changes, but must admit there are times that I wished we looked to the French for some of their uniforms and practices.

 

[Maxman1]

They did this, with the Vimy star a few years back, replaced the 3 crowns at the centre of the pip with a maple leaf. called it the Vimy Star, as opposed to the Bath Star. Then quietly reversed it. I still have a bunch in a box at home.

And it doesn't even show up on cloth slip ons, and is barely visible on metal DEU ranks.

 

[RangerRay]

I would be on board with changing the pips to maple leaves.

Many of the Commonwealth republics’ armies have retained the “pips and crowns” but changed the symbols, if only the crown.

 

[KevinB]

I would be on board with changing the pips to maple leaves.

Many of the Commonwealth republics’ armies have retained the “pips and crowns” but changed the symbols, if only the crown.

That would be a logical Canadianization.
Instead of the British inspired model adopted.

Or one could have Canadian bastardized the American model
Gold Bar: 2LT
Silver Bar: 1LT
Doubled silver Bar: Captain
Gold Maple Leaf: Major
Silver Maple Leaf: Lt Col
Silver Canadian Goose: Col
GOFO Sword and Baton with leaves like unification style
BGen: S&B and Maple Leaf
MGen: S&B and 2 Maple Leafs (Leaves?)
LtGen: S&B and 3 Maple Leafs
Gen: S&B 4 Maple Leafs

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I would be on board with changing the pips to maple leaves.

Many of the Commonwealth republics’ armies have retained the “pips and crowns” but changed the symbols, if only the crown.

You mean these ones?

If Pips and Crowns are fine enough for the Antigua and Barbuda Regiment, The Fijian Regiment, or the Papua New Guinea Land Element, it's fine enough for the Canadian Army. Even Republics that swapped the Crown for something else use the Order of the Bath as their "pips"

Contrary to popular belief, we are not a tin-pot, Caribbean or African Republic's armed forces. Our nation is was one of the first and largest members of the Commonwealth and thus makes sense we retain some vestiges of the Crown. This concept of "Canadianizing" our identity (which was already Canadian, through the identity of the Commonwealth we profited and help build) stemmed from the ridiculous "not British" sentiment coming out of Quebec in the 1960s.

Funny how in 2025, when we see a "not American" identity emerging, His Majesty gets an invite to read the Speech from the Throne, and there are more units looking to head to Horse Guards for a couple of weeks.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You mean these ones?

If Pips and Crowns are fine enough for the Antigua and Barbuda Regiment, The Fijian Regiment, or the Papua New Guinea Land Element, it's fine enough for the Canadian Army. Even Republics that swapped the Crown for something else use the Order of the Bath as their "pips"

Contrary to popular belief, we are not a tin-pot, Caribbean or African Republic's armed forces. Our nation is was one of the first and largest members of the Commonwealth and thus makes sense we retain some vestiges of the Crown. This concept of "Canadianizing" our identity (which was already Canadian, through the identity of the Commonwealth we profited and help build) stemmed from the ridiculous "not British" sentiment coming out of Quebec in the 1960s.

Funny how in 2025, when we see a "not American" identity emerging, His Majesty gets an invite to read the Speech from the Throne, and there are more units looking to head to Horse Guards for a couple of weeks.

Rank badges don't mean much beyond the Start Line...

E.g., when there aren't any Staff Officers around, with shiny rank badges on their shoulders, and you need to locate the enemy before winning the firefight

 

[dapaterson]

I think the Army needs to go to occupation specific rank insignia, to help out the RCCS Fund.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think the Army needs to go to occupation specific rank insignia, to help out the RCCS Fund.

There is no RCCS fund. Only the C &E Branch fund. That is hesitant to let the RCCS break off from it. Because it means we would be able to get those things with Public funds, and not have to pay into the Branch Fund....

 

[markppcli]

You mean these ones?

If Pips and Crowns are fine enough for the Antigua and Barbuda Regiment, The Fijian Regiment, or the Papua New Guinea Land Element, it's fine enough for the Canadian Army. Even Republics that swapped the Crown for something else use the Order of the Bath as their "pips"

Contrary to popular belief, we are not a tin-pot, Caribbean or African Republic's armed forces. Our nation is was one of the first and largest members of the Commonwealth and thus makes sense we retain some vestiges of the Crown. This concept of "Canadianizing" our identity (which was already Canadian, through the identity of the Commonwealth we profited and help build) stemmed from the ridiculous "not British" sentiment coming out of Quebec in the 1960s.

Funny how in 2025, when we see a "not American" identity emerging, His Majesty gets an invite to read the Speech from the Throne, and there are more units looking to head to Horse Guards for a couple of weeks.

I think the more relevant argument was having a unified set of rank symbols given how we work by default with members of all three elements.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think the more relevant argument was having a unified set of rank symbols given how we work by default with members of all three elements.

That was a stupidity of our own making, trying to use "joint" as an identity vice an employment structure.

Heyller's failed experiment is dissolving bit by bit, year by year.

 

[FJAG]

Heyller's failed experiment is dissolving bit by bit, year by year.

As it should.

 

[markppcli]

That was a stupidity of our own making, trying to use "joint" as an identity vice an employment structure.

Heyller's failed experiment is dissolving bit by bit, year by year.

It’s not a failed experiment, it’s our daily work environment. An infantry Bn can have Navy Log Os, Air Force clerks and vice versa. There is logic to ensuring they all have similar rank insignia. I don’t think that’s an attack on identity so much as it’s the logical response to the reality.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

It’s not a failed experiment, it’s our daily work environment.

For now, except when the realities of individual forces and their complexities rear their head, case in point:

An infantry Bn can have Navy Log Os,

Funny enough, no. The Log Branch Silos their officers into specific environments because logistics planning and sustainment differ greatly between them. Could you have a Navy Log O at a Bn? Sure... would it be effective Career Management? Fuck no.

Thats why that "purple" occupation self-corrected a systemic flaw, and there are pushes within the MM Tech world to do the same.

There is logic to ensuring they all have similar rank insignia. I don’t think that’s an attack on identity so much as it’s the logical response to the reality

I will agree to disagree that it's logic and offer instead that its convenience at best, laziness at worse.

 

[markppcli]

For now, except when the realities of individual forces and their complexities rear their head, case in point:


Funny enough, no. The Log Branch Silos their officers into specific environments because logistics planning and sustainment differ greatly between them. Could you have a Navy Log O at a Bn? Sure... would it be effective Career Management? Fuck no.

Thats why that "purple" occupation self-corrected a systemic flaw, and there are pushes within the MM Tech world to do the same.


I will agree to disagree that it's logic and offer instead that its convenience at best, laziness at worse.

Purple trades are self correcting ? I’ll be sure to pass that on to the sailor from 2 VPs UMS that just taught me combat first aid and the other sailors we have in RHQ. I agree it’s a sub optimal situation but I still think a unified system of rank identifiers makes sense. Convenience is a word that means the easiest ma least difficult way to achieve something, I don’t think recognizing ranks should be anything but convenient.

Let’s come at this from another angle. Argue the practical benefit of service / element specific rank insignia.