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Eye In The Sky said:
You shouldn't have.... judging by the posts though, it'd be Secret Santa 2015 before he finished WFT and graduated.
Voluntary Release (VR) from Reserve - anytime [Merged]
- Thread starter mrodrigz
- Start date
You shouldn't have.... judging by the posts though, it'd be Secret Santa 2015 before he finished WFT and graduated.
PuckChaser said:
Warriors come into a new platoon having completed casualty drags, ruck marches, trench digs, topo classes, and watermanship exercises to name a few.
The instructors are not present 24/7 to help every last recruit. The night before a march, who do you think is helping the members of a platoon get their rucks together? Its not the staff. Its the members who have more experience. Inspections are at a better standard for new platoons with WFT personnel, because they have the experience.
Call me a professional recruit, that's fine. But I will rock BMQ and any course after that because of the skills I have gained while on WFT.
Towards_the_gap
Sr. Member
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I really wouldn't be basing your career around the fact that you are proud you went to WFT.
That 95% of the forces who managed to meet the standard (first time) might not share your enthusiasm.
That 95% of the forces who managed to meet the standard (first time) might not share your enthusiasm.
Being an outsider I maybe outside my lanes, but maybe not.
I don't understand the idea of RFT or "Warrior" Platoon. When I was playing football, I didn't show up to training camp after the summer fat or out of shape. When I showed up to Queens training camp last summer, I knew full well knew there would be physical testing and it would be two weeks of 5+ hours a day of physical activity. I didn't show up looking like I spent all summer doing nothing but sun tanning and drinking. I came in good physical condition to be able to preform at a level expect at university athletes.
Considering BMQ is 13 weeks with huge portions of physical training daily, the idea of showing up in anything less the the best possible shape you can be in really boggles my mind.
But hey what do I know. >
I don't understand the idea of RFT or "Warrior" Platoon. When I was playing football, I didn't show up to training camp after the summer fat or out of shape. When I showed up to Queens training camp last summer, I knew full well knew there would be physical testing and it would be two weeks of 5+ hours a day of physical activity. I didn't show up looking like I spent all summer doing nothing but sun tanning and drinking. I came in good physical condition to be able to preform at a level expect at university athletes.
Considering BMQ is 13 weeks with huge portions of physical training daily, the idea of showing up in anything less the the best possible shape you can be in really boggles my mind.
But hey what do I know. >
Towards_the_gap said:
It's not a matter of being proud of being on WFT, it is of what I accomplished during my time on WFT.
I failed at something. It happens. I'd love to meet the professional soldier who is good at absolutely everything, and has never needed a hand. All WFT is, is a helping hand for those who struggle with some aspect of BMQ/BMOQ.
I really hope that my time in St Jean (including my time on Warrior) will be a small speck of an amazing career defending my country.
- Reaction score
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NavComm87 said:
As opposed to the other recruits who manage to top their respective courses without having to spend 6 extra months on the Queen's dime at BMQ. You're not thinking like a taxpayer, who is paying for you to get into the shape you should have been before said taxpayer paid to fly you to St. Jean.
- Reaction score
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Motivation is so important. Sadly, some people either try to enlist as a last chance, since they are unsuited or unqualified to do anything else, or are pressured to join by family because the family believe *we* will straighten the kid out.
While I can do a lot of things (I stay at the Holiday Inn Express), I am not a psychologist. Indeed, when working as a Pl 2I/C on training courses the unmotivated and unwilling were the bane of my existence, taking something like 80% of my time and preventing me from giving my full attention to the staff and the motivated soldiers. Indeed, these experiences soured me on the idea of teaching or working with recruits, so while I may advocate for them in some regards (i.e. they should be able to go on course with the proper compliment of uniforms and working equipment) I am very reluctent to get involved in training them anymore.
As for the title of the thread, I believe I hold the world record, having a recruit come off the bus with a VR memo already in hand. So in addition to course intake and startup, I also had to waste several days with the "counselling/give them 24 hr>go to the next level of the CoC councelling/give them 24hr etc. BS when it would have been far more timely and cost effective to simply push said individual back into the bus on the spot and let it drive away (which is what happened anyway, after several days of eating the Queen's rations).
While I can do a lot of things (I stay at the Holiday Inn Express), I am not a psychologist. Indeed, when working as a Pl 2I/C on training courses the unmotivated and unwilling were the bane of my existence, taking something like 80% of my time and preventing me from giving my full attention to the staff and the motivated soldiers. Indeed, these experiences soured me on the idea of teaching or working with recruits, so while I may advocate for them in some regards (i.e. they should be able to go on course with the proper compliment of uniforms and working equipment) I am very reluctent to get involved in training them anymore.
As for the title of the thread, I believe I hold the world record, having a recruit come off the bus with a VR memo already in hand. So in addition to course intake and startup, I also had to waste several days with the "counselling/give them 24 hr>go to the next level of the CoC councelling/give them 24hr etc. BS when it would have been far more timely and cost effective to simply push said individual back into the bus on the spot and let it drive away (which is what happened anyway, after several days of eating the Queen's rations).
- Reaction score
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Thucydides said:
I thought people weren't allow to VR in the first 5 weeks? And that's just a disgrace. Wonder what the hell that recruit was thinking and wasting everyone's time and money that could be better spent
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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NavComm87 said:
I'm sure you're proud and happy to have made it out of the platoon and probably feeling a little defensive in light of the reception your opinion is getting here, and given the spot your in it's understandable you'd see things that way.
Thing is what you're describing is basically someone failing grade 10, being held back then basically saying how much of an advantage you are to have around because you're helping the grade 9 students who just started grade 10.
This can also be a negative thing. "Course moms" (people who have previously failed or significantly older students) can actually make matters worse.
For starters the help you're giving may be wrong (look at how many people on army.ca try to help but give wrong info). You spend a night helping people fix their rucksacks only to find out in the morning you "taught" them wrong.
You probably lack the experience as to why something is wrong and how it effects the bigger picture. It's not to say you're dumb but you may not know why something is the way it is. YOU may not but others will add their open opinion (stated as fact) which leads to more confusion.
Long story short it's not up to you to teach other students what you think you know. There's nothing more annoying for an instructor than having to constantly tell a student to stop trying to teach other students.
Towards_the_gap
Sr. Member
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NavComm87 said:
What, pushups, situps and running a mile and a half?
You can throw around all the training you think puts you ahead of the rest of your coursemates, but really, what was the goal of WFT?
To get you into the same shape as everyone else who comes to BMQ WITHOUT needing 3-6 months of paid 'Extreme Makeover'.
And having done ruck marches, casualty drags, topo classes etc really isn't impressive. That is like saying 'look at me, I'm well trained, I can tie my shoes'. Those things you list are the BASIC's of soldiering/sailing/hotelling (air force)
Like OZ said, you are no doubt on the defensive, thinking you've accomplished something and not liking when others sneer at it. Top tip = get used to it.
- Reaction score
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think most people its all a issue above the neck.
Well it looks like this is really two threads one on VR'ing and one on the fitness test, both of which i have an opinion on and a great deal of experience with.
First I will talk about VR'ing.
If during a selection interview a candidate is asking me questions about the VR policy that raises red flags to me. Why the hell are you asking me when the quickest time frame I can ask to get out? In my head I say "well this is BS" - I would ask is this something they really want to get in - in the first place?
I also add that BMQ is an opportunity for you to see what the CF is all about and for the CF to see if you are what we are looking for. If things aren't working out everyone is well aware - you will not be forced to serve out your three + year contract if things aren't working out because we want people who want to be here.
I also frequently see when someone on this forum says johnny put his VR in on week two, others talk about it can't happen to week five and people getting a lip on saying it doesn't say that here and what reference can that be found. Get over it - in general a candidate can write up a VR request at any time (it's a free world after all - although my MBdr told me when the CF becomes a democracy I can finally have a say. - so someone can submit something - how it is actioned is on a case by case basis. (of course like others have already stated.
nuff said
First I will talk about VR'ing.
If during a selection interview a candidate is asking me questions about the VR policy that raises red flags to me. Why the hell are you asking me when the quickest time frame I can ask to get out? In my head I say "well this is BS" - I would ask is this something they really want to get in - in the first place?
I also add that BMQ is an opportunity for you to see what the CF is all about and for the CF to see if you are what we are looking for. If things aren't working out everyone is well aware - you will not be forced to serve out your three + year contract if things aren't working out because we want people who want to be here.
I also frequently see when someone on this forum says johnny put his VR in on week two, others talk about it can't happen to week five and people getting a lip on saying it doesn't say that here and what reference can that be found. Get over it - in general a candidate can write up a VR request at any time (it's a free world after all - although my MBdr told me when the CF becomes a democracy I can finally have a say. - so someone can submit something - how it is actioned is on a case by case basis. (of course like others have already stated.
nuff said
Fitness Testing
Everyone has a good theory about fitness testing and if your theories worked in the real world you'd think they wouldn't already be implemented? Crantor brought you the perspective of what it was like working at the recruiting centre.
People passed the test before going to CFLRS and when they arrived at CFLRS 3-9 months later they failed. Or they could have taken the test two weeks before they went but because the contracted tester was lenient they went to CFLRS and still failed. So from personal experience your personal preference of test up front didn't work or didn't work as you would have hoped. Having said that - my preference is still - test up front. There is a cost and as this policy was implemented in a time when we needed everybody and anybody this was seen as a way to get people in the door.
It was really a catch 22 - when we had a system aligned with the training system we had for a lack of a better word just in-time training. So that great Med Tech applicant we had who had to wait 7 months for a position to become available - when it did and we called he/she had taken another job and we missed out. Speed up years later when we hired this guy/gal right away and thy waited 3 years for training and wanted to release because they couldn't stand the waiting anymore and it was lose lose.
On another topic, why test someone to a standard and send them on to CFLRS and have the final standard the same? I thought that was a bit crazy. When I joined there was no pre-test, everybody just went and the final push-up standard was like 33 push-ups and 30 sit-ups or vice-versa and even those who could do but 5 - achieved the standard. How? Remedial PT at night, platoon push-ups all the time, apparently that was later stopped because it was seen as punishment. Getting to the standard shouldn't be seen as punishment.
So to a certain extent adding the WFT provided a means to get someone up to speed. Should they have been in shape before they got there sure but in a lot of cases these guys could be spending time at the other end on PAT. And you know those guys who were tested previously before arriving and failed on arrival (and there was no WFT) well 98% of those guys passed CFLRS anyways - really it is a small portion of people that are just not suited for the military that were causing all kinds of admin issues in WFT - I remember hearing people on WFT for 18 months and still not released due to having been injured.
Someone argued that is it better to take the higher rated applicant who needs a month in boot camp as opposed to an average or below average candidate who is fit - and some people say hell no - well there is a cost associated with taking an average applicant but who can pass the fitness test - potentially harder to train - less aptitude towards their selected MOSID - so the world's not perfect there are costs associated with everything. Is WFT perfect - hell no - but it is just another tool in the CF's toolbag.
One individual said they learned a lot from WFT and that's a good thing. The CF is about refocusing and rebuilding people. That guy could have just quit, like many others have. The CF isn't looking for quitters, we are looking for people who persevere and overcome. The whole idea is to provide the environment and tools for people to succeed.
Anyways, that's my two cents
Everyone has a good theory about fitness testing and if your theories worked in the real world you'd think they wouldn't already be implemented? Crantor brought you the perspective of what it was like working at the recruiting centre.
People passed the test before going to CFLRS and when they arrived at CFLRS 3-9 months later they failed. Or they could have taken the test two weeks before they went but because the contracted tester was lenient they went to CFLRS and still failed. So from personal experience your personal preference of test up front didn't work or didn't work as you would have hoped. Having said that - my preference is still - test up front. There is a cost and as this policy was implemented in a time when we needed everybody and anybody this was seen as a way to get people in the door.
It was really a catch 22 - when we had a system aligned with the training system we had for a lack of a better word just in-time training. So that great Med Tech applicant we had who had to wait 7 months for a position to become available - when it did and we called he/she had taken another job and we missed out. Speed up years later when we hired this guy/gal right away and thy waited 3 years for training and wanted to release because they couldn't stand the waiting anymore and it was lose lose.
On another topic, why test someone to a standard and send them on to CFLRS and have the final standard the same? I thought that was a bit crazy. When I joined there was no pre-test, everybody just went and the final push-up standard was like 33 push-ups and 30 sit-ups or vice-versa and even those who could do but 5 - achieved the standard. How? Remedial PT at night, platoon push-ups all the time, apparently that was later stopped because it was seen as punishment. Getting to the standard shouldn't be seen as punishment.
So to a certain extent adding the WFT provided a means to get someone up to speed. Should they have been in shape before they got there sure but in a lot of cases these guys could be spending time at the other end on PAT. And you know those guys who were tested previously before arriving and failed on arrival (and there was no WFT) well 98% of those guys passed CFLRS anyways - really it is a small portion of people that are just not suited for the military that were causing all kinds of admin issues in WFT - I remember hearing people on WFT for 18 months and still not released due to having been injured.
Someone argued that is it better to take the higher rated applicant who needs a month in boot camp as opposed to an average or below average candidate who is fit - and some people say hell no - well there is a cost associated with taking an average applicant but who can pass the fitness test - potentially harder to train - less aptitude towards their selected MOSID - so the world's not perfect there are costs associated with everything. Is WFT perfect - hell no - but it is just another tool in the CF's toolbag.
One individual said they learned a lot from WFT and that's a good thing. The CF is about refocusing and rebuilding people. That guy could have just quit, like many others have. The CF isn't looking for quitters, we are looking for people who persevere and overcome. The whole idea is to provide the environment and tools for people to succeed.
Anyways, that's my two cents
H
Heraske
Guest
I've asked to VR a week ago and have not yet been contacted to sign any papers.
The reason for VRing is due to the unforeseen schedule I had not anticipated when school had started. One of my classes is something similar to a CAF Co-op program, but for the fire service instead. The class also has weekend training sessions which does count towards a percentage of your total mark in class. Given that situation, I was unable to do Weekend BMQ without hurting my school marks. I also snagged a youth apprenticeship program which earns valuable trade hours to my journeyperson's qualification which can grant me 1 credit for every 100 hours of work as an apprentice (I was unaware my shop class made me eligible for the program and found out a day after my first parade night). I did not want to VR after only a week of being sworn in, but as I stated, it was due to unforeseen circumstances, and for the benefit of all, I did not want to waste tax dollars to pay me when I'd be a Pte (R) for 10 months straight and miss excellent educational opportunities for myself.
Since I've asked to VR a week ago, how long should it take to be called to sign the release papers? I do not want to be considered NES and then Dishonorably released.
The reason for VRing is due to the unforeseen schedule I had not anticipated when school had started. One of my classes is something similar to a CAF Co-op program, but for the fire service instead. The class also has weekend training sessions which does count towards a percentage of your total mark in class. Given that situation, I was unable to do Weekend BMQ without hurting my school marks. I also snagged a youth apprenticeship program which earns valuable trade hours to my journeyperson's qualification which can grant me 1 credit for every 100 hours of work as an apprentice (I was unaware my shop class made me eligible for the program and found out a day after my first parade night). I did not want to VR after only a week of being sworn in, but as I stated, it was due to unforeseen circumstances, and for the benefit of all, I did not want to waste tax dollars to pay me when I'd be a Pte (R) for 10 months straight and miss excellent educational opportunities for myself.
Since I've asked to VR a week ago, how long should it take to be called to sign the release papers? I do not want to be considered NES and then Dishonorably released.
H
Heraske
Guest
What do you do when you're going through the VR process?
Chuk said:
I'm not sure what you're looking for here.
You inform your chain of command of your intent to release; this may take the form of a memo. Mine was verbal, and included the CO. You're worried about getting NES, write a memo. If you get concerned that something may have gone wrong, request it back. On the order of 30 days, you should see where its been minuted. Just documenting the submission should have you covered on paper.
If you're wondering what happens after that, you wait. You'll be contacted by your clerks to clear out. Know your schedule, inform them when they contact you, and try to keep your appointment. Don't lose your ID card or any of your kit to the basement/closet monster. Writing loss reports is a pain in the butt and delays clearing you out.
Once the paperwork's done and you're cleared out, you wait. A big envelope with a certificate will show up in the mail saying you're officially done.
If you sign your release paperwork and are told that you've cleared out in September, and you haven't received it by January, check in with the clerks.
Outside of that, just go about your normal routine.
