Weird election slogans: Save the GST, vote Liberal

[GAP]

Weird election slogans: Save the GST, vote Liberal
Charles Gordon The Ottawa Citizen Sunday, November 04, 2007
Article Link

The way it looks now, the Liberal party will get one vote in the next federal election -- assuming Stéphane Dion decides not to abstain. To understand how a once-mighty and awfully arrogant political party could be brought to this level it is necessary to look back into political history.

The term "way back," as it is understood in modern Canadian journalism, means Tuesday.

On Tuesday, the Conservative government introduced its economic statement, which showed a whopping surplus and a bunch of tax cuts, including another one percentage point off the goods and services tax. In response, Dion announced that his party would continue its strategy of aggressively abstaining on confidence motions in the House of Commons.

This had the effect of reducing the number of potential Liberal voters in the next federal election to 78. Still, there was the potential to build from that. However, Dion was not finished. He then suggested that a government led by him (pause here for ironic laughter) might reverse the cuts to the GST made by the Conservatives.

In his enthusiasm, Dion apparently forgot that what he was proposing was an increase in taxes. This is because rescinding a tax cut is the same as increasing taxes, at least as far as potential supporters, now down to 46, are concerned.

Most political experts are of the opinion that promising voters tax increases is one of the least effective strategies available. But there is more to consider than that.

The relationship of the Liberal party and the GST is a most unusual one, a collection of some of the least proud moments in the party's history.
More on link

 

[JBoyd]

I do not know if it was meant to be... however I found a bit of humour in that.

 

[MP 811]

hopefully, the throngs of support the Liberals get (ie - sheep) will actually sit down for once and think that this might not be the best party to support after all.

Unfortunately, i'll probably be wrong on this one..... :

 

[Flip]

Dion announced that his party would continue its strategy of aggressively abstaining on confidence motions in the House of Commons.

.   :

It's like getting the Rick Mercer Report every day.... ;D

 

[niceasdrhuxtable]

hopefully, the throngs of support the Liberals get (ie - sheep) will actually sit down for once and think that this might not be the best party to support after all.

Unfortunately, i'll probably be wrong on this one..... :

It's funny you should say that because many people (myself included) believe that government's should be raising consumption taxes as opposed to lowering them and then passing the savings on to income and corporate tax cuts. The idea is that higher consumption taxes will encourage investment and savings which lead to higher growth for the country. Anyway, it's such a politically unpopular idea that even musing about it is a cause for consternation as evidenced by the story above

 

[a_majoor]

The GST cut is positive in the sense that it provides tax relief to low income Canadians who don't pay income tax. As well, the reality is that the current government is in a minority position, and (until recently) felt that perusing aggressive income tax cuts would have led to a defeat in the house and a new election.

With the new reality in the house, national polling numbers and party finances, I expect to see the Conservatives creating a bolder tax cutting policy in the full budget in February. (As a voter, they better not disappoint!)

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Dion finds himself in a no win situation and he would have been better to shut up rather than underline what everyone is already thinking about him. the day before the tax cuts it was thought that the Cons were only cutting the GST and he was roasting them by saying that they should cut personal income taxes not the GST. when the next day arrived and they cut in three areas...personal, corporate and GST it really left the Liberals stymied...what to say, what to say?
A GST cut helps everyone who has to buy things....that's all of us....and it's now 2% reduced from what it was 2 years ago so there are some real savings there.
A raise in the personal exemption this year and in years to comes gives us who pay income tax a break that we need and right away...this year.
Corporate tax relief helps business to deal with a ballooning dollar and hopefully frees up some cash for investing in jobs.
When the Government is swimming in cash it's time to give us all a break...we are one of the highest taxed peoples in the world with taxes on everything including tax! Of course the Libs and Dippers have never seen a tax they didn't like and their strategy is to tax and spend like there's no tomorrow.
Mr Dion probably needs to be reminded that people don't like tax collectors......in New Testament days they were thought to be unclean and refered to as "tax collectors and sinners" not much has changed really....no one likes paying them.

 

[Flip]

It's funny you should say that because many people (myself included) believe that government's should be raising consumption taxes as opposed to lowering them and then passing the savings on to income and corporate tax cuts.

Tax cuts for people who make enough to actually pay tax is nice but not progressive.
Consumption tax is a nice idea on paper but the paper burden to small business
is onerous. I oughtta know.  If you work 50-60 hours a week and you have month
left at the end of the money - you don't have an extra few hours to do the paper
work and you might have borrowed that GST and PST to pay the power bill.
You don't have time for the audits - the choice is, do the books or make money to buy food.

Mr Dion probably needs to be reminded that people don't like tax collectors......in New Testament days they were thought to be unclean and refered to as "tax collectors and sinners" not much has changed really....no one likes paying them.

I clearly recall the NDP idea of bringing in an inheritance tax. (Not as far back)
They dropped it half way through the election...... ;D

Dion could be about a lot of ideas of his own - He's not.
Bank and debt reform could be his crusade.
Except that under the liberals we all got to go far deeper into debt.
As opposition he has failed - he simply opposes whatever the government does.
A four year old could do that.  The liberals are clearly out of ideas.
They can't get by on entitlement "we should be in charge"anymore.

I say GOOD!

As for the throne speech with all of the dire warnings.....
"You do as we say or we'll pull the plug"

I believe I'd like to play poker with that guy (Dion). >
And I never play cards. ;D

 

[niceasdrhuxtable]

Tax cuts for people who make enough to actually pay tax is nice but not progressive.
Consumption tax is a nice idea on paper but the paper burden to small business
is onerous. I oughtta know.  If you work 50-60 hours a week and you have month
left at the end of the money - you don't have an extra few hours to do the paper
work and you might have borrowed that GST and PST to pay the power bill.
You don't have time for the audits - the choice is, do the books or make money to buy food.

I also support the laggard provinces being motivated to harmonise their sales taxes, aswell

 

[Greymatters]

There are too many things to make fun of here to do the job properly...   

 

[a_majoor]

The Liberals are finally coming up with something besides "we don't agree [but we abstain]". It will be interesting to get the figures from the UK to see if this plan has any real merit or just "Fun with numbers".

Of course, as a follower of the classical school of economics, I am biased against it already; lowering taxes and regulatory burdens is the key to greater wealth and "fairness" (although what they should really say and mean is Justice). The voters will judge:

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/274863

Dion to unveil anti-poverty plan
November 08, 2007
THE CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA – Stephane Dion is poised to unveil a central plank in the Liberal election platform — a "bold" plan to reduce poverty in Canada.

The Liberal leader is to reveal details of the plan in a speech tomoprrow in Toronto.

"It will be very bold," Dion told The Canadian Press.

Dion offered few details, other than to say his plan is modelled after one instituted in 1999 by former British prime minister Tony Blair to reduce child poverty in the United Kingdom.

Blair vowed to end child poverty by 2020, with interim goals of a 25 per cent reduction in five years and a 50 per cent reduction in 10 years.

His government was then compelled to develop policies to meet those targets and came within two percentage points of meeting the first five-year benchmark.

"(Blair) did not win completely but the fact that he came with this challenge for the nation has been a help in the U.K., so I will do the same," Dion said.

An insider close to Dion said the Liberal leader will set ``aggressive but realistic" multi-year targets for reducing poverty in general and child poverty in particular.

He will also outline the policy tools a Liberal government would use – bolstering existing income support programs and new investments in things like child care and education – to meet those targets.

According to the insider, Dion will argue that there is a moral imperative to address the issue in Canada where almost one million children and one in three single mothers live in poverty even as the federal government racks up massive annual surpluses.

The plan has been fully costed but the price tag will not be revealed until the entire platform is released during the next election campaign.

With his leadership under fire on several fronts as he approaches the first anniversary of taking the Liberal helm, Dion has recently started giving sneak peeks of the upcoming Grit platform, which he says is designed to make Canada "richer, fairer and greener." (see my comments above)

He's already outlined his agenda for meeting Kyoto greenhouse gas emission targets and for reducing taxes.

Strategists believe he must show he's got a vision for Canada that offers voters a clear alternative to the ruling Tories.

Dion's poverty fighting plan will be unveiled one day after Prime Minister Stephen Harper was in Toronto touting last-month's tax-cutting mini-budget.

Harper bashed the Liberals for opposing tax cuts and blasted Dion in particular for musing about rolling back the Tories' latest one percentage point cut in the GST.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Is child poverty what people are really concerned about in this country? Of course it's important...so is motherhood. It's not where the majority of Canadians are going to get excited about voting for him. When I get my pay statement each month and realize how much is going into Government coffers that's what gets me excited. The first four months of the year went to just paying income tax and another couple of months to pay for the GST and the other oppressive taxes we pay in this country. It wouldn't be so bad if I could see value for my money but when I turn around and it's been given to friends of the Government for no work (ADSCAM) or wasted on stupid projects like the Gun Registry and the HR scandal then you're getting me excited about never voting for you again. Mr Dion needs to understand that he needs to revamp the Liberal party from top to bottom and get rid of their old ways of thinking...first thing to do is get rid of the sense of entitlement and the arrogant assumption that they are the natural governing party.
Mr Harper is proving daily that someone else can do the job without coming up with new schemes to waste more of our hard earned money.

 

[Redeye]

The GST cut is positive in the sense that it provides tax relief to low income Canadians who don't pay income tax. As well, the reality is that the current government is in a minority position, and (until recently) felt that perusing aggressive income tax cuts would have led to a defeat in the house and a new election.

With the new reality in the house, national polling numbers and party finances, I expect to see the Conservatives creating a bolder tax cutting policy in the full budget in February. (As a voter, they better not disappoint!)

How much GST, however, do people whose income is so low that they don't pay income tax, really actually pay.  Low income Canadians, all else being equal, would allocate more substantial portions of their income to housing and food rather than the discretionary spending that higher earners have.  Someone whose income is so low that they don't pay income tax likely will save very, very little from the GST cut, since most of what they spend their money on is not subject to taxes.  Don't forget they also receive a cheque from the government four times a year that's a GST credit.

I'd rather see broader cuts to the lower brackets and an increase in the basic personal exemption to get more low income folks off the tax rolls altogether and reduces the tax burden on most Canadians.  While we should be using the surplus as an opportunity to retire public debt, it should also go toward giving some back to the public that funded it.

 

[DBA]

How much GST, however, do people whose income is so low that they don't pay income tax, really actually pay.  Low income Canadians, all else being equal, would allocate more substantial portions of their income to housing and food rather than the discretionary spending that higher earners have.  Someone whose income is so low that they don't pay income tax likely will save very, very little from the GST cut, since most of what they spend their money on is not subject to taxes.  Don't forget they also receive a cheque from the government four times a year that's a GST credit.

I'd rather see broader cuts to the lower brackets and an increase in the basic personal exemption to get more low income folks off the tax rolls altogether and reduces the tax burden on most Canadians.  While we should be using the surplus as an opportunity to retire public debt, it should also go toward giving some back to the public that funded it.

Depending on how you define poverty a substantial number of those classified as such pay significant GST each year. The GST/HST credit is meant to offset the costs of paying the GST but isn't indexed to or calculated off the GST as far as I know. That means savings to even the lowest income Canadian the first time they buy anything subject to the GST.

The basic personal exemption is being increased, by $700 to $9,600 retroactive to Jan. 1, 2007 and increasing to $10,100 in 2009. The lowest tax bracket was put back down to 15% from the 15.5% they raised it to last year.

 

[GAP]

Uh....guys, according to the Liberal Party in the last election, the poor, with their broods of kids under six, and collecting a $100.00 cheque per month for each of them, are only going to spend it on beer and popcorn. GST is charged on both those items, therefore, they will save BUNDLES !!  ;D

 

[Reccesoldier]

So Dion is saying that he is going to simultaneously reduce overall poverty by 30% and child poverty by 50%.  So does this mean that 20% of the children he is going to miraculously save from poverty are going to be removed from the poor homes they live in? Or is it that he will discriminate against poor without children in favor of saving his arbitrary 50% of poor children?

No plan, a new unattainable "priority"

Kyoto part deux.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>15% from the 15.5% they raised it to last year.

By "last year" I assume you mean earlier announcements affecting the 2007 tax year.  In my universe, I paid 15.25% in the lowest bracket for 2006.  Whatever 2007 was going to be, it is now 15%.  People can piss and moan all they like about who promised what, but the GST will be down to 5%, the lowest income bracket rate is down to 15%, and the basic personal exemption is up.  In 1999 federal rates were 17%, 26%, and 29%.  Every bit has helped.

 

[a_majoor]

Well, Prime Minister Harper won't have to look too far to hit Mr Dion right between the eyes:

http://mark-peters.blogspot.com/2007/11/lest-people-forget.html

Lest people forget

In 1989, the Liberals said they'd eliminate child poverty by 2000. From 1989 to 2000, child poverty rose 43%. Stephane Dion was probably living in France at the time.

    Liberal Leader Stephane Dion says his party would cut the number of Canadians living in poverty by 30 per cent if they form the next government.

    A federal Liberal government would also cut the number of children living in poverty by half in that same period, he said Friday during a speech in Toronto.  -- CTV

At what cost?

    Dion told reporters after his speech that the cost of the plan would be revealed during the next election.

Kinda like Kyoto, universal child care and any other grandiose Liberal "Robin Hood" plan that involves financing socialist ideals off the backs of hard-working Canadians.

Chances are, if you're poor today, you'll be worse off with the Liberals at the helm. The only way to drag your butt out of poverty is through iron will, self-determination, courage, hard work and fortitude. Most people are okay with the government giving people a hand up but not a hand out. There is no free ride; somebody always pays the bill.

Posted by Mark at 4:11 PM

Of course, this is almost as easy as looking at the Liberal record of what they promised to do about Kyoto vs what actually happened.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Liberal Leader Stephane Dion says his party would cut the number of Canadians living in poverty by 30 per cent if they form the next government.

Heck, I can do that. Just define down the LICO and LIM, which are the basis of measure of almost every fraction of Canadians claimed to be living in poverty.

 

[Flip]

No plan, a new unattainable "priority"

Kyoto part deux.

He could buy another dog....... ;D

Name it "Poverty"