Weird election slogans: Save the GST, vote Liberal

[a_majoor]

More election fever dreams in the air:

http://bctory.blogspot.com/2007/12/left-turn-ahead.html

Left Turn Ahead?
Really, how could this be the least bit surprising to me?

Stéphane Dion signalled yesterday that he will take a left-leaning platform of social programs into the next election, as he vowed to run a campaign that will create a "collision" between Liberal and Conservative visions of Canada.
.....

Liberals familiar with the planning said the party intends to campaign to the left in the hope of winning voters who supported the NDP in the past election. Mr. Dion said the Liberal platform will include measures to aid students in paying postsecondary tuition, combat poverty and support seniors.

"Never forget our seniors. We have an aging population. In our next election campaign, we will offer more support for our seniors - that will be very important," Mr. Dion said in a closing speech that promised a platform that would create a stark contrast between Liberals and Conservatives.

In addition to returning to the green focus on fighting climate change that helped win him the Liberal leadership one year ago, Mr. Dion spent much of his closing speech touting his "30-50" plan to reduce poverty by 30 per cent and child poverty by 50 per cent over five years.

"The fight against poverty will be at the heart of a Liberal agenda," he told party officials.

Liberals said the lean to the left was not an accident. Montreal MP Denis Coderre, for example, said the party was preparing for an "ideological battle" with the Conservatives.

Insiders said social-program offerings, such as financial support for seniors and, most likely, a national "catastrophic" pharmacare program, will be at the centre of a Liberal campaign platform. Mr. Harper has a secure constituency from the centre to the right, and the Liberals must broaden their support in the centre and left, one Liberal strategist said.

I've contended for quite some time now that the Liberals were (or, at a bare minimum, were acting like they were) moving the farthest to the left they have been since the Trudeau era. Indeed, it appears that "Blue Grit" business liberalism will be taking a back seat to the agenda of the left wing of the party. Some things to consider, though:

1) The things they propose are more or less the exact same things that the NDP have called for in the past. A lot of what it said here pretty much smacks of being stolen from the Jack Layton playbook.

With that in mind, how will progressives interpret this matter? After all, this sounds eerily like an "NDP-lite" campaign, and what is to convince people to vote Liberal, when the NDP has been offering the same platform for years? While it may be the desire to remove the Conservatives from power, I think many left-leaning voters would rather vote for something than vote against it. Moreover, consider the Liberal track record in the past of campaigning to the left, yet governing to the right. Or, perhaps, the 2004 campaign centered around Paul Martin decrying income tax cuts, yet running on tax cuts galore in the 2006 election. The general point I am making here is that progressive-minded Canadians are very much aware that the Liberals have talked the talk before, but, given past instances, do they really expect it to be different this time? What reason would they have to abandon the NDP when they actually can trust them to consistently support such left-leaning policies.

In short, I think the inconsistency of the Liberals while in government while certainly hurt them in this regard.

2) In most of Canada, the Liberals are fighting a battle on two planes: the battle with the NDP for the centre-left, and a battle with the Conservatives for the centre. While, on the surface, it would appear that marginalizing the NDP would return much of their electoral success to the Liberals, providing them with a chance to form government. But, the fact that it comes at the expense of centrists is telling. This can only enable the Tories to implement a strategy of "triangulation"- in effect, the ability of Harper to present his policies as moderate in the face of the 'left-wing, NDP-lite" policies Dion is pushing. This therefore gives him greater levity among the moderate voters that decide every election. So, while Dion fights Layton for the left, Harper is able to point at both of them and present himself as a centrist alternative by focusing on the centre-right policies he epouses that are popular with the average centrist voter (e.g. tax cuts, mandatory minimum sentences, etc.).

In effect, this lefty Liberal strategy would give Harper a chance to dominate the centre which has long been the decider of elections, and reap even greater electoral benefit as a result.

Call me crazy, but I have a feeling this electoral strategy does have a fair amount of holes in it.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I just love that phrase the left love to banter around "progressive-minded Canadians." It's short form for those who think Conservatives have just stopped swinging from the trees and are slightly to the right of Genghis Khan. :rage:

 

[ModlrMike]

I just love that phrase the left love to banter around "progressive-minded Canadians." It's short form for those who think Conservatives have just stopped swinging from the trees and are slightly to the right of Genghis Khan. :rage:

It ranks right up there with "right thinking Canadians". How dare they tell us what it's right to think!  :rage:

 

[a_majoor]

This puff piece in the Star is an indication where the Liberals might be headed.......

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/287314

Justin Trudeau to outline vision for Canada's future 
TheStar.com - News - Justin Trudeau to outline vision for Canada's future
Liberal fundraiser a chance to draw young people into process and `refresh' party, organizer says
December 20, 2007
Les Whittington
Ottawa Bureau

OTTAWA–Justin Trudeau, the brightest young star on the Liberal scene, will talk about his vision of Canada at a party fundraiser tonight in Toronto.

Trudeau, the son of ex-prime minister Pierre Trudeau who plunged into electoral politics in Quebec last spring, is addressing the topic: "The Way Ahead – the Liberal Party in 2008."

Bringing Trudeau to Toronto is part of the effort to generate new thinking about Liberal goals and prompt interest among young people in the political process.

"The real purpose of this is to give as many people as possible the chance to participate in the most important project the Liberal party has before it right now," said organizer Senator Jerry Grafstein. That's for the party to "renew itself and refresh itself," he said.

Trudeau, who turns 36 on Christmas Day, set off a jolt of national interest and widespread leadership speculation last spring when he won the nomination to run for the federal Liberals in the Montreal riding of Papineau.

His views on the future of Canada and the party take place against a backdrop of simmering unease with current Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion.

While any leadership bid by Trudeau is likely years away, some Liberals are already looking to him as a possible champion of the idea of a strong national government capable of bringing Canadians together.

There is a sense among some Liberals that to court votes in Quebec, the party under Stéphane Dion is not adequately defending the need to keep the federal government from devolving too much power to the provinces.

One area where questions of national values and standards have emerged is in the tense debate over fundamental Canadian rights in Quebec's public study of what constitutes "reasonable accommodation" of immigrants and religious minorities.

Condemning what he calls the politics of fear, Trudeau has stressed the importance of protecting the individual liberties guaranteed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms brought in by his father.

Instead of "mistrust" and "division," there's a hunger for "the politics of openness and understanding" that stresses "the common values which unite us," Trudeau told CTV recently.

Tonight's event, which is a fundraiser for Trudeau's political campaign and for the Liberals, takes place from 5 p.m. to 7 p.m. at the University Club on University Ave.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Is it just me, or does JT look like a young Keith Richards?

 

[Reccesoldier]

Is it just me, or does JT look like a young Keith Richards?

Kieth Richards was young??

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well, I don't know about young, but JT's mother used to hang around with the Rolling Stones

 

[Franko]

Well, I don't know about young, but JT's mother used to hang around with the Rolling Stones

:rofl:

Might explain the incoherent mumbling and coat tail riding.

Regards

 

[Bigrex]

Well people seem to forget a few facts when criticizing the Libs.

1. It was the Cons who brought in the GST, sure the Libs promised to cut it, but realized that income really helped when trying to fund social programs to help Canadians, and most Canadians don't really miss that little amount of money.
2. It was the Cons that raised the lowest income tax rate to 15.5 when they gained power, so that .5 cut isn't much to brag about.
3. The fact that multi billion dollar companies pay taxes at a lower rate than individuals isn't great either, they still make more than their fare share, it just means the CEO's have to make payments on their beemers and ferraris instead of buying them outright.

The cons are all about paying off the debt, and their supporters laud them for it, but are trying to reduce the main sources of government money they need to use to pay off that debt, so if they continue to pay large amounts off the debt, without that extra cash influx, the money has to come from somewhere, like DND's budget after Afghanistan, pension surpluses, social programs, heritage programs, you name it.

If they truly want to help the most disadvantaged, give a GST reduction card to every family that has low enough income based upon the annual income tax files, have it good for a year, this way they have to file income tax every year proving that their income hasn't increased above the cut off in order to qualify for a new card. Then these low income households present the card when purchasing items, and they pay a reduced GST, but those who can afford the extra money pay the full amount.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Well, I don't know about young, but JT's mother used to hang around with the Rolling Stones

Hear about the patio that Trudeau built?

Pierre mixed the mortar, and Maggie laid The Stones.... .... Ba-DUM-Bump!

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Hear about the patio that Trudeau built?

Pierre mixed the mortar, and Maggie laid The Stones.... .... Ba-DUM-Bump!

What da ya mean?? ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well people seem to forget a few facts when criticizing the Libs.

1. It was the Cons who brought in the GST, sure the Libs promised to cut it, but realized that income really helped when trying to fund social programs to help Canadians, and most Canadians don't really miss that little amount of money.
2. It was the Cons that raised the lowest income tax rate to 15.5 when they gained power, so that .5 cut isn't much to brag about.
3. The fact that multi billion dollar companies pay taxes at a lower rate than individuals isn't great either, they still make more than their fare share, it just means the CEO's have to make payments on their beemers and ferraris instead of buying them outright.

The cons are all about paying off the debt, and their supporters laud them for it, but are trying to reduce the main sources of government money they need to use to pay off that debt, so if they continue to pay large amounts off the debt, without that extra cash influx, the money has to come from somewhere, like DND's budget after Afghanistan, pension surpluses, social programs, heritage programs, you name it.

If they truly want to help the most disadvantaged, give a GST reduction card to every family that has low enough income based upon the annual income tax files, have it good for a year, this way they have to file income tax every year proving that their income hasn't increased above the cut off in order to qualify for a new card. Then these low income households present the card when purchasing items, and they pay a reduced GST, but those who can afford the extra money pay the full amount.

There's a huge difference between helping the TRULY disadvantaged and supporting the welfare sucking, three generation, attitude of entitlement losers perpetuated by the liberal socialist system. Your card will just become a new system of barter for the dregs of society that refuse to be held accountable for their own predicament. Of course you would gladly make the hard working families pay the penalty to support the lazy and shiftless. How typical of the liberal attitude. Make everyone else pay for the lazy shiftless bastards that won't support themselves, so long as you can buy the vote from them.

 

[Harris]

+1 to Recceguy

I'm tired of MY money going to support people who are too lazy to support themselves.  While I realize not everyone falls into this category, many do.  I can cite examples, even within my own family unfortunately.

If someone wants a handout then they should have to work for it.

 

[ModlrMike]

A couple of clarifications needed:

Well people seem to forget a few facts when criticizing the Libs.

1. It was the Cons who brought in the GST, sure the Libs promised to cut it, but realized that income really helped when trying to fund social programs to help Canadians, and most Canadians don't really miss that little amount of money.

Yes, the Torries brought in the GST. They brought in the GST to pay off the debt that the Liberals incurred during Trudeau's years. If the Libs required the GST to pay for social programmes, they were funding them out of the wrong tax.

2. It was the Cons that raised the lowest income tax rate to 15.5 when they gained power, so that .5 cut isn't much to brag about.

Actually, they cancelled a planned reduction to 15.5%, the didn't actually raise the tax level.

3. The fact that multi billion dollar companies pay taxes at a lower rate than individuals isn't great either, they still make more than their fare share, it just means the CEO's have to make payments on their beemers and ferraris instead of buying them outright.

Which has what to do with the current government? There's a fine line to tread between sufficient taxation of corporations and creating a climate where companies find Canada to expensive to operate in. The result of which would be increased unemployment, increased demand for social programmes, and reduced tax revenue.

The cons are all about paying off the debt, and their supporters laud them for it, but are trying to reduce the main sources of government money they need to use to pay off that debt, so if they continue to pay large amounts off the debt, without that extra cash influx, the money has to come from somewhere, like DND's budget after Afghanistan, pension surpluses, social programs, heritage programs, you name it.

I rather think that the reduction in taxation levels stimulates the economy and increases the number of working Canadians. The follow on is greater tax revenue.

If they truly want to help the most disadvantaged, give a GST reduction card to every family that has low enough income based upon the annual income tax files, have it good for a year, this way they have to file income tax every year proving that their income hasn't increased above the cut off in order to qualify for a new card. Then these low income households present the card when purchasing items, and they pay a reduced GST, but those who can afford the extra money pay the full amount.

A GST reduction does help the lowest earners. Lower income Canadians spend a greater portion of their wages on taxable items, thereby recovering a greater portion of their wages through the GST savings.

The end point, regardless of the party in power now or in the future, is that we're paying for spending money we didn't have in the 70s and 80s.

 

[Bigrex]

"A GST reduction does help the lowest earners. Lower income Canadians spend a greater portion of their wages on taxable items, thereby recovering a greater portion of their wages through the GST savings."

This statement is completely false, sounds like Torie propaganda to me,  but lowest earning households spend the majority of their income on rent, and groceries, which are not taxable, then utility bills, which are taxed, but have to be paid, this usually doesn't leave much for luxury items or spending sprees at Walmart. I know a single mother working 40 hours a week at minimum wage, making just over $1000 a month after taxes. out of that she has to pay rent, which at best is only 5 hundred, then groceries for three people has to be say 300 at least, then she has to pay for electricity, say 150 per month so she cannot afford cable, a phone, credit cards, a car, and she has maybe under $200 left to spend on taxable items, actually 172 plus taxes, and the extra 1% will give an extra $2-5 to spend a month, not exactly jaw dropping amounts. And like I said, those were best case scenario amounts, I haven't asked her what her bills are, but she and her kids do not have a very high quality of life, but cannot apply for assistance because she works full time hours.

And the liberals had lowered income tax to 15% , but the Cons raised it to 15.5% after they were elected, and are acting like this .5 drop is a them doing a great thing for Canadians, but most Canadians are not fooled. I am not  pro liberal, as much as I am Anti-Conservative, as i would rather vote for the Green party than vote blue again.

 

[DarkFire]

IMHO a GST cut, even a small one with only a 1% reduction does help. If I'm making just $1000 a month and with a GST of 6%, and income tax of 15.5% I'll be left with only $785. At the same time with 5% GST and 15% Income tax, I'm now left with $800. That is $15 more then what I would be left with if this tax reduction takes effect. That $15 dollars, while still a small amount, will bring a total amount of $180 more money earned by the end of the year. (This is not counting other expenses after the income tax and GST payments.)

These are simply the numbers, I'm not going to be political about this issue because by doing so I am stepping out of my lane.

 

[TCBF]

... as i would rather vote for the Green party than vote blue again.

- The Green Agenda is a thinly disguised Marxist Agenda - shut down the Western World and give all of the money to Third World Dictators.

- As for taxes, you are missing the point: To bring about real tax cuts, we need to start trimming the federal bureaucracy.  Get the Feds out of areas that the Constitution says are Provincial responsibilities and stop bribing people with their own tax dollars.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

- The Green Agenda is a thinly disguised Marxist Agenda - shut down the Western World and give all of the money to Third World Dictators.

- As for taxes, you are missing the point: To bring about real tax cuts, we need to start trimming the federal bureaucracy.  Get the Feds out of areas that the Constitution says are Provincial responsibilities and stop bribing people with their own tax dollars.

Yeah how about stop paying people not to work every year for 5 or 6 months in the resource sector too.

 

[TCBF]

- You must mean the fishery, because farmers don't get to go on pogey once their wheat is siezed by the Western Canadian Wheat Board.

 

[Rodahn]

- You must mean the fishery, because farmers don't get to go on pogey once their wheat is siezed by the Western Canadian Wheat Board.

Western Canadian Wheat Board??? I was always under the impression that it was the Canadian Wheat Board........